Luna Bliss Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 4 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said: 9 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: Let's take, for example, Native Americans who claim to communicate with animals. In one of my retreat experiences with a shaman and friend, a kind of vision quest where I was to go deeper within myself and make some important changes, we were returning to her home, and she remarked that some crows sitting on the phone wires (most notable one who was dead and hanging upside down by a claw) was a sign that something or other would be happening to her. What are we to make of this? She could have been having some sort of delusion, imagining a message was being sent by the outside world (via the crows). Or she could have had a connection with the world we don't understand (perhaps we might in the future, via experiments, understand how the world is connected in ways not known to us now). What do you make of this? One percent of American moms claim to have given virgin birth. What do you make of that? Way to totally discredit Native Americans. You may have been an engineer, but you're no Scientist -- you engage in Scientism for the most part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 Just now, Love Zhaoying said: Um..wave vs. particle theory. Particles "vibrate", and again if you see them as waves, you can also see a "pattern" in the wave representation.. I hadn't planned on needing any argument because you are so smart. Guess I failed this time! Not smart. Just somewhat educated in the sciences and endlessly curious. Quantum Mechanics has become the new "safe space" from which to argue all manner of theories. I imagine Schrödinger would be saddened to see that people have hijacked the necessary uncertainty of his brainchild to promote the belief that unfalsifiability is proof. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 5 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said: One percent of American moms claim to have given virgin birth. What do you make of that? Parthenogensis is real! Jesus ain't so special! That's what I make of it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleMe Jewell Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 Current Peeve: 4 pages of discussion/argument/debate/whatever of some other topic in a Pet Peeve thread. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 Just now, Madelaine McMasters said: Quantum Mechanics has become the new "safe space" from which to argue all manner of theories. I imagine Schrödinger would be saddened to see that people have hijacked the necessary uncertainty of his brainchild to promote the belief that unfalsifiability is proof. Actually I was thinking of my Hindu Guru when I wrote "everything is a vibration". More correctly, he says "everything HAS a vibration". But he backs up all his statements with a combination of old/new/pseudo science (yes, QM). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 (edited) @Madelaine McMasters I challenge you to commit to a year-long practice of intense meditation. I would bet my life that you would come out of it with a very different view of reality. You persist in this view of materialism, where consciousness originates in a kind of 'squirting from the evolving species'. Nope, consciousness is always present, and organisms develop brains to deal with their particular reality.. PET PEEVE: Materialists who are so certain they have a grasp of the entire world. Edited June 10, 2020 by Luna Bliss 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said: Way to totally discredit Native Americans. You may have been an engineer, but you're no Scientist -- you engage in Scientism for the most part. Oh, I have great respect for Native Americans. I endeavor to see the things they do, and have had some success at it. Does it do a disservice to Native Americans to entertain the idea that, by passing down the wisdom of their elders, they maintain a natural sensitivity to, and appreciation of, the world that many of us lack? I greatly enjoy discussing the connection I feel to nature with Selene. We may disagree about the mechanism of the connection, but if I were out in the woods and wanted a keen observer with me, I'd pick Selene. I hope she'd pick me. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 1 minute ago, Madelaine McMasters said: 9 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: Way to totally discredit Native Americans. You may have been an engineer, but you're no Scientist -- you engage in Scientism for the most part. Oh, I have great respect for Native Americans. I endeavor to see the things they do, and have had some success at it. Does it do a disservice to Native Americans to entertain the idea that, by passing down the wisdom of their elders, they maintain a natural sensitivity to, and appreciation of, the world that many of us lack? I greatly enjoy discussing the connection I feel to nature with Selene. We may disagree about the mechanism of the connection, but if I were out in the woods and wanted a keen observer with me, I'd pick Selene. I hope she'd pick me. An I'm gonna pick my buddy Love, the Hindu kitty to go out in the woods with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 6 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: Parthenogensis is real! Jesus ain't so special! That's what I make of it. It's real, but has never occurred in humans. It results in tumors and moles. I was thought to possibly have a teratoma several years ago. It turned out to be something else. Had parthenogensis occurred in 1% of human females, there would be a completely different Jesus birth story. Miracles must, by definition, be miraculous! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 3 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said: Oh, I have great respect for Native Americans. You can't really respect them and say their beliefs about nature and animals are the same as the 1% who believe they gave a virgin birth. You're calling Native Americans insane, or delusional. The fact is, we don't know if they have a way of connecting to nature that we aren't able to manifest. Yet you are certain they're delusional. Think I'm out of here. Can't cope with such disrespect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 7 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: An I'm gonna pick my buddy Love, the Hindu kitty to go out in the woods with me. Are we going behind the shed for some much deserved punishment? I'll cut my own switch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 5 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: You can't really respect them and say their beliefs about nature and animals are the same as the 1% who believe they gave a virgin birth. You're calling Native Americans insane, or delusional. The fact is, we don't know if they have a way of connecting to nature that we aren't able to manifest. Yet you are certain they're delusional. Think I'm out of here. Can't cope with such disrespect. Paradoxically, I think MM means no "disrespect", it's just her filter settings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 11 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said: It's real, but has never occurred in humans. It results in tumors and moles. I was thought to possibly have a teratoma several years ago. It turned out to be something else. Had parthenogensis occurred in 1% of human females, there would be a completely different Jesus birth story. Miracles must, by definition, be miraculous! Most "basic" scholars agree that the "virgin birth" story was thrown in to convert some gentiles.."hero" attributes such as a "virgin birth" were expected for any savior worth their salt. I do not believe Jesus was born from Mary as a virgin. I do, however, believe that the science is out on parthenogenesis because: there are news reports relatively often these days, of "yet another" species that gave birth with only females present. Not possible with humans? I guess you know better than nature! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 19 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said: Miracles must, by definition, be miraculous! Only to those who do not know the cause. A "miracle" is just something unexpected without an explanation. What we call "science" was once "magic".. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 4 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: Most "basic" scholars agree that the "virgin birth" story was thrown in to convert some gentiles.."hero" attributes such as a "virgin birth" were expected for any savior worth their salt. I do not believe Jesus was born from Mary as a virgin. I do, however, believe that the science is out on parthenogenesis because: there are news reports relatively often these days, of "yet another" species that gave birth with only females present. Not possible with humans? I guess you know better than nature! I didn't say "not possible". I said "has never occurred in humans". My neighbor is chairman of the biology department at a local university and a devout Christian. I discussed that 1% story with him, which resulted in a short discussion of parthenogenesis in humans. He didn't think it was impossible, but nearly so, and was aware of no verifiable examples. He explained the series of unlikely events required for it to happen. I found this article, which jogs my memory of that short discussion via the term "calcium spike"... https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2007/12/is-it-possible-for-a-virgin-to-give-birth.html I think I've peeved enough people here. I'll move my efforts elsewhere. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Gregoire Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Rolig Loon said: Having had no experience with "tingles" or anything else that people in this thread have described -- up to and including kinesthesia -- I have no idea what gives. I'm curious and open to learning more while personally skeptical of anecdotal accounts. That's my own version of "I don't know." From what I'm seeing it's the physical manifestation of the fight or flight instinct. Not something I care to monkey around with, in case of possible harmful side effects no one is aware of yet. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolig Loon Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 56 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: There is no solidity in the universe. A form that appears solid is actually created by an underlying vibration. Vibrations express themselves in corresponding geometrical figures and in this way build up crystals that are the expression of vibration. Crystals collectively form a body of an element according to its particular vibration. The forms of snowflakes and faces of flowers take on their shape because they are responding to some sound in nature. Crystals, plants, and human beings are music that has taken on visible form. For example: Scatter some very fine sand over the head of a drum. Then take a tuning fork and strike a note just above the drum head causing it to vibrate. The sand would shift and assume a geometrical figure corresponding to the particular note that was played. When another is sounded, the sand will shift and assume another figure. This shows that every vibration produces a corresponding geometric form Um... no. That's a serious misinterpretation of particle-wave duality and crystallography, subjects that were at the heart of my own professional career. As far as sand and drum heads are concerned, all your example illustrates is a simple principle of wave harmonics that is among the first things that is taught in college-level physics and calculus. In the context of this discussion, crystals and drum heads are red herrings. I remain open to the possibility of tinglyness and AMSR, which seem like fascinating experiences that may be worthy of study, but crystals and drum heads are a distraction here. Actually, this whole discussion -- interesting though it is -- is a distraction from the pet peeves theme. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 18 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said: I didn't say "not possible". I said "has never occurred in humans". Strongly implied. Glad you were there for all human births in history! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 4 minutes ago, Rolig Loon said: Actually, this whole discussion -- interesting though it is -- is a distraction from the pet peeves theme. Are you saying that the distraction..peeves you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Gregoire Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 52 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said: Oh, I have great respect for Native Americans. I endeavor to see the things they do, and have had some success at it. Does it do a disservice to Native Americans to entertain the idea that, by passing down the wisdom of their elders, they maintain a natural sensitivity to, and appreciation of, the world that many of us lack? I greatly enjoy discussing the connection I feel to nature with Selene. We may disagree about the mechanism of the connection, but if I were out in the woods and wanted a keen observer with me, I'd pick Selene. I hope she'd pick me. I would. Without a shadow of a doubt. You should never be in the company of anyone with whom you would not want to die. ~Frank Herbert 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 44 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: 52 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: An I'm gonna pick my buddy Love, the Hindu kitty to go out in the woods with me. Are we going behind the shed for some much deserved punishment? I'll cut my own switch. So that's how you roll, huh.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said: So that's how you roll, huh.... I'll take a "walk in the woods", beats a hick'ry switch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolig Loon Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 3 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: Are you saying that the distraction..peeves you? Not at all. But then, I am not easily peeved. I just meant that it's interesting that the moderators haven't noticed how far the thread has wandered from its theme. It clearly hasn't peeved them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 4 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said: You should never be in the company of anyone with whom you would not want to die. ~Frank Herbert If only they stop screaming and SHUT UP while I peacefully die, I'm ok with whoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 9 minutes ago, Rolig Loon said: I remain open to the possibility of tinglyness and AMSR, which seem like fascinating experiences that may be worthy of study Take my advice with a grain of salt no doubt, but through meditation you can eliminate the blocks that keep you from tingling. Meditation increases sensitivity in all areas. It would be a lot of work just to tingle though! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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