Sylvia Tamalyn Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 1 minute ago, LittleMe Jewell said: Years back The Vanity Thread was often for more polished photos, usually listed with credits, and seemed to be for both showing off your avatar and your photography skills. The 'How Does Your Avatar Look Today' thread was created to be more of a casual look-of-the-day (LOTD) thread. In the beginning, very few of the photos were super professional looking - more like snapshots - and seldom any credits given unless someone asked. There was minimal post-processing done and few 'set up scenes', but more snapshots taken at home or out exploring / having fun. 1.5 - 2 years ago, the Vanity Thread started falling off the first page and the LOTD thread started getting more action. Shortly there-after it started morphing into more of what the Vanity Thread originally was, with lots more photos focusing on photography itself (setting up the scene using backdrops, getting the lighting just right, using projectors, DOF, etc..) rather than just LOTD - though there is still a handful or two of folks that still post in more of a LOTD type. There have been 'discussions' about side chit-chat, too much emphasis on photography skills, too much post-processing, too much quoting of the pictures, etc.... I stopped posting on any sort of a regular basis quite a while ago, partly because of the drama around those topics I just mentioned and partly because for a while it really did seem to morph in to a thread focused almost solely on quality of the photos. My candid shots felt totally out of place, so I now mostly browse, give Likes here & there, and sometimes make a comment. I have probably posted less than a half dozen pictures in the last 12-18 months. I didn't drop back to the Vanity Thread one though because that one has always seemed like more professional shots - though without the drama - and thus was always somewhat intimidating to me. The VaNiTy ThReAd has been going on for so many years that I guess it's been through various iterations. When I was posting in it, probably back in 2011 or so, I don't think anyone was editing their pics aside from possibly cropping them. We weren't that fancy. 😛 (I'm not sure DOF was even a thing yet at that point.) But I know as the years passed, SL pics in general went in the direction of PS, which is a shame. I finally caved and used a free service, PicMonkey, now and then on my Flickr pics, but I held out for a long time because I really do prefer photos to look like things actually look in SL. I wish there was a thread that did THAT, minus any drama. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleMe Jewell Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Seicher Rae said: But one thing I'm noticing is that there's just as much banter in it (so far, through pg 15) as photos. I just went and checked. What I'm remembering is the one that was going on in the old, old forums - whereas the current thread started in 2011 and thus is from the forums just before this current incarnation. I still might be remember wrong about how much discussion & chit chat there was -- it has been many, many years -- or maybe it just didn't generate as much drama back then. Who knows really - mostly I remember scrolling through, looking at the pretty pictures and wishing I had half the photography skill as those people. And I remember that for some reason, the current How Does Your Avatar Look Today thread started making me feel woefully inadequate 15 or so months back. Edited May 10, 2020 by LittleMe Jewell 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleMe Jewell Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 2 hours ago, Sylvia Tamalyn said: I hope so. It's a great "scrapbook" of the forums, including some who are sadly no longer with us due to passing away in RL. I just perused it a bit -- boy does it bring back some memories of folks, some I do miss here in the forums quite a bit. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seicher Rae Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 Just now, LittleMe Jewell said: I just went and checked. What I'm remembering is the one that was going on in the old, old forums - whereas the current thread started in 2011 and thus is from the forums just before this current incarnation. I still might be remember wrong about how much discussion & chit chat there was -- it has been many, many years -- or maybe it just didn't generate as much drama back then. Who knows really - mostly I remember scrolling through, looking at the pretty pictures and wishing I had half the photography skill as those people. Yeah. I remember that. This forum re-upped the VaNiTy thread in 2011. Looks like I posted in 2012 for a half a second. I haven't posted consistently to this entire Forum until the past year. I've posted on/off in spurts. 2014, 20... who knows. Looking at the one in this Forum, the ones from the early days is all chit chat and mostly average photos. Something must have happened with the viewers because the photo quality jumped it seems between 2011 and 2012, or maybe folks just got better computers? Anyway, lots of comments back and forth. It looks like the latter pages are more photos only but there are plenty of casual ones, and some like Skell's that are pro-looking. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seicher Rae Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Sylvia Tamalyn said: I really do prefer photos to look like things actually look in SL. I wish there was a thread that did THAT, minus any drama. Hear, hear! And sadly, that too you have to say in this thread because if you say it in the other thread you get the drama. Well done raw shots are awesome. I wish there were a way to say "OK in this thread it is for raw shots OR shots that have a teeny bit of PS but not PS'd to high hell" (using CM's humourous phrasing). You know, like editing a bit of hair that is cutting through, or tweaking the contrast. Basically do things that you can't tell that have been done but it helps the photo retain its SL quality. Disclaimer: Because I *still* have to walk on eggshells. I love some of the digital art that is produced based upon SL images! Some people are so talented. I chose my words carefully there, though, because that's what I think it is "SL-based digital art" and not SL photography. And yes, "here be dragons" because that's one of those awful art school debates about "what is art and what is craft" and I really hated those. ETA: Now that I think about it, I'd really like to see that thread IF people who DO PS to high hell would share their before pictures, before the PS, and then they could link to their Flickr or whatever for the "enhanced" version. Strawberry Singh when she was still that used to do that all of the time. She'd post the raw on her Feed and the finished on her blog. Edited May 10, 2020 by Seicher Rae 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skell Dagger Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 11 minutes ago, Seicher Rae said: some like Skell's that are pro-looking I should probably shoulder most of the blame for the 'How Does Your Avatar Look Today' thread changing It began to change soon after Scylla asked for feedback on one of her images and I gave some tips on lighting that I eventually felt went on for far too long and deviated from what the thread was intended for (and for which I recall apologising). The Vanity Thread has - for quite some time now - been the domain of a couple of bloggers plus the promotion of one store's products. I stopped posting there ages ago. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skell Dagger Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 13 minutes ago, Seicher Rae said: ETA: Now that I think about it, I'd really like to see that thread IF people who DO PS to high hell would share their before pictures, before the PS That would be a great idea for a separate thread on its own: before and after shots showing the difference. I'd be happy to participate in something like that. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seicher Rae Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Skell Dagger said: I should probably shoulder most of the blame for the 'How Does Your Avatar Look Today' thread changing It began to change soon after Scylla asked for feedback on one of her images and I gave some tips on lighting that I eventually felt went on for far too long and deviated from what the thread was intended for (and for which I recall apologising). The Vanity Thread has - for quite some time now - been the domain of a couple of bloggers plus the promotion of one store's products. I stopped posting there ages ago. Well hey there. What? Do you have the Forum set up for mentions of "Skell." ? Nah, you are not to blame for anything. What you described may have happened, but what we are peeving about here is that the personality of that thread has changed to be really, um, snotty to people who don't toe the line on some pretty arbitrary "rules of engagement" (like who the eff set up those rules?). Some of us are peeving because of the snarks that happen, by a handful of people, if you start talking about things like DOF, or viewers, etc. as it pertains to specific photos posted in that very thread! Now, you're just the person I want to talk to, though. I mentioned starting a new thread then thoughT, nah, I don't really care enough and there's Flickr. Then Sylvia started talking. Then I started thinking, and I just posted that I'd be interested in a RAW (or lightly PS'd) selfie thread ESPECIALLY if people like ... I dunno ... YOU ... who do post-production would share your before shots with a link to your after shots and maybe sometimes there could be a talk about it? I don't know if any of that is what Sylvia is talking about, but it is for me. If you would I might just have to consider starting that thread. (And boy, I didn't mean that like it probably sounds... like it ALL RESTS ON YOU BUDDY!) ETA: LoL, you answered as I was typing! OK then. Gimme a bit to think about it. Edited May 10, 2020 by Seicher Rae 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolig Loon Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 As one who posts "snapshot" images with minimal post-processing, I agree that photos look a lot more true to SL without all the extra tweaking. I have absolutely nothing against "SL-based digital art", but I'd rather maintain the photo album look myself. Besides, I don't have the patience to do much more than edit an occasional stray hair or add a simple frame when I am posting to a forum, where images have a short half life before they disappear into the archives. When images are here today, gone tomorrow, spontaneity wins. Things are different in a blog or in a forum that is intended to be archival, but that's not my world. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleMe Jewell Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 My pet peeve is these kinds of folks - and we do have a few around here. 8 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skell Dagger Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 3 minutes ago, Seicher Rae said: Well hey there. What? Do you have the Forum set up for mentions of "Skell." ? Not sure how I'd even do that Nah, I was just browsing and saw your post. On the subject of 'thread rules' I do recall one of the Linden mods here (can't remember who now) mentioning sometime last year that - if that thread didn't stay reasonably on-topic (i.e. pictures of your avatar) - then it might be closed. That was most likely after a bit too much text was posted there, so - while I'm not making excuses for some of what's gone on there of late - that may be behind some of the concerns about keeping the thread to mostly images. And yes, I'd be happy to share before and after images. I was just now messing around in Photoscape (free program with a great 'page' function to tile multiple images into a single sheet) to do exactly that, after reading your ponderings. I'd just stick them both in the same image rather than linking to Flickr for the 'after'. It would make the changes more visible (and would - in many cases when it comes to my own images - show that I don't actually do all that much in post; I just layer on some filters!) 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seicher Rae Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 @Skell Dagger That sounds great! It looks like most of the photo threads do not have an initial posting of the theme behind the thread. No real OP. And I think that may be why people start making them up (and I know what you are saying about the mods saying stay on track, I don't think that is all of it though). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 12 minutes ago, Skell Dagger said: It began to change soon after Scylla asked for feedback on one of her images Oh SURE. Incriminate ME, why don't you? Ah, the picture threads. How could anything so completely anodyne and goofy become a source of such consternation? The conflicts there seem to me to align around two different but overlapping axes. On the one hand, we have the "Just Pictures, Dammit!" set, vs. the "Banter and Discuss" set, and on the other the "Simple Snapshots of How I Look" vs. the "This is ART, Dahling" approach. Really, it's an extension of a problem that's endemic to forum threads in general: no one, not even the OP, has the authority to determine what a thread is supposed to do, or where it goes. They're dynamic and flowing and changing, and sometimes people don't like those changes. I know, personally, some people who've stopped posting pics on the Avatar thread because they are put off by censoriousness of those who don't want banter (and not just Seicher: at least two other people have said this to me), but I also know people (at least two or three) who stop posting there when they feel that the photos are being overwhelmed by chattiness. And we have people like Lil who feel intimidated by the fact that so many of the photos are higly "finished," and others (like myself, tbh) who just don't do simple snapshots anymore. (That's not out of any sense of superiority or anything: I just want my pics to look as nice as I can make them, within reasonable limits.) There's really not going to be any one way of keep everyone happy. I myself like the banter and discussion. In fact, it's the main reason I post there: if it's just photos I want to see, especially "high quality" ones (please note the scare quotes!), I go to Flickr, where I follow some really top-notch photographers. I also think that people should be able to post any kind of pic there, from the simplest snapshot, to the more artsy, highly processed stuff. And in both cases, it's because I like the community there. I'm in that thread for the people, and that includes those who post snapshots as much as it does those who post photographic "art." You're someone whose presence I value regardless of the kind of pics you post. I don't have an answer here: someone's going to be unhappy. Maybe one solution -- which I know Kira at one time was advocating -- was a separate thread for talky posts and pics. I'd be good with that, except that it breaks up the community we have, and will in effect mean that people aren't talking to others with a different approach. Or, maybe, breaking up that community, if it's becoming dysfunctional and exclusionary in some way, is a good thing? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 Well, on the bright side, think about how all of these new spam-posting idiot alts are boosting SL sign-up stats! Seriously, can one take out a contract on a virtual person? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vega Firelyte Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 Guess who's back... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skell Dagger Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 4 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: Maybe one solution -- which I know Kira at one time was advocating -- was a separate thread for talky posts and pics. We did have that. Orwar started the thread, but it was in the Photography sub-forum, so it just got buried and nobody used it. If such a thread was started in the Your Avatar forum - to post images and discuss techniques and whatnot - I'm not sure it would stay there 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 Just now, Skell Dagger said: We did have that. Orwar started the thread, but it was in the Photography sub-forum, so it just got buried and nobody used it. If such a thread was started in the Your Avatar forum - to post images and discuss techniques and whatnot - I'm not sure it would stay there Yeah, that's a point. One of the problems there is that the Creation forum has much lower traffic. And, arguably, we also have a kind of separation now between the Vanity thread and the Avatar one. It's almost as though two different threads can't co-exist: one or the other simply ends up being the destination of choice. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleMe Jewell Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 19 minutes ago, Skell Dagger said: 29 minutes ago, Seicher Rae said: Well hey there. What? Do you have the Forum set up for mentions of "Skell." ? Not sure how I'd even do that I thought that was on for everyone by default. Any mentions of me show up in my Notifications. I must have manually set that then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 1 minute ago, LittleMe Jewell said: Any mentions of me show up in my Notifications. That's only when you're specifically tagged, though. Skell wasn't -- his first name was just mentioned. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleMe Jewell Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 3 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: That's only when you're specifically tagged, though. Skell wasn't -- his first name was just mentioned. So it was. I think when I read the post, I just saw it as a Mention even when it wasn't. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleMe Jewell Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Vega Firelyte said: Guess who's back... Thankfully, LL was on it this time super fast. Or maybe not. I thought one of the posts had disappeared and the posting rate definitely slowed down, but old posts are still there. Edited May 11, 2020 by LittleMe Jewell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skell Dagger Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 Just now, LittleMe Jewell said: I thought that was on for everyone by default. Any mentions of me show up in my Notifications. I get that if someone @ replies me, yes. But not if they just type my name, as Seicher did. 3 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: One of the problems there is that the Creation forum has much lower traffic. I've still not figured out why Clover's post asking us all to show off our footwear was moved to the Creation sub-forum. That one had me scratching my head for ages, since it was all about this forum's subtitle: "Discuss how to individualize your avatar and exchange tips," so why on earth it was moved to the Creation sub-forum was completely beyond me. That thread - previously very active while in Your Avatar - also died a death once it had been moved. Creation > Avatar is the graveyard for quite a few wonderful threads that once flourished up here in the heady heights of Your Avatar. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Kiyori Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 My petpeeve: Folks that act bigoted to a person one moment then try to act all buddy-,buddy the next as if they hadn't just been an absolute stinky onion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 5 minutes ago, Skell Dagger said: I've still not figured out why Clover's post asking us all to show off our footwear was moved to the Creation sub-forum. That one had me scratching my head for ages, since it was all about this forum's subtitle: "Discuss how to individualize your avatar and exchange tips," so why on earth it was moved to the Creation sub-forum was completely beyond me. That thread - previously very active while in Your Avatar - also died a death once it had been moved. Creation > Avatar is the graveyard for quite a few wonderful threads that once flourished up here in the heady heights of Your Avatar. Yeah, I don't understand the logic behind quite a few of the "moves" that get made. And of course, if a thread gets moved, it often languishes not merely because it's now in a forum backwater, but because you actually literally can't find it anymore. I've had threads that I created that I had to use notifications or history to find once they'd been moved. It's kinda nuts when you lose sight of your own content! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seicher Rae Posted May 11, 2020 Share Posted May 11, 2020 Hey guys! I've got the new thread up! Please make suggestions over there. Comments. This is a new format for a SL selfie thread. I need help. I want structure so that we can quip, and so that it is clear what is and is not on topic, thus hopefully avoiding the "who elected her god?" (The answer would be ME, cuz I'm the OP!) How about that. Maybe the peeve thread created something! Let's have fun! 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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