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Bree Giffen

Second Life on Steam?

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2 minutes ago, femhalf said:

I've learned to call it a game to non-SL users, and virtual world to SL and opensim users. ;)

wise choice

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27 minutes ago, KanryDrago said:

there is a ton of stuff to do in sl except events, shopping and sex. The fact that you think there isn't says more about you than it does about sl

I meant in general, since the most popular activities fall under the umbrella category of events, i.e., clubs, RP, shopping, conferences, etc.  There are a few exceptions such as photography, gambling, raising breedables, and FPS/shooter games.  These are generally not as popular as the former though.  That was kind of my point.

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2 hours ago, Callum Meriman said:

The Lab's question is do they know the audience, and if they do, how do they catch people like Ghost and Reflecting Void and turn them from 2 hour players to people who stay?

The Lab has nothing to do with retaining players. Linden Lab provides the framework; it's up to the experience owners to create something that will keep players coming back to their experiences.

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2 minutes ago, Parhelion Palou said:

The Lab has nothing to do with retaining players. Linden Lab provides the framework; it's up to the experience owners to create something that will keep players coming back to their experiences.

Now that sounds so familiar. Where have I seen that before? Oh yeah... SL. Didn't work out too well for SL. Wonder what makes them (LL) think it will work for Sansar?

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5 minutes ago, femhalf said:

There are a few exceptions such as photography, gambling, raising breedables, and FPS/shooter games.  These are generally not as popular as the former though.

I'd believe there are more people roleplaying, sailing, surfing, exploring, decorating their H&G, taking photos and just talking to friends around a campfire then there are doing sex, dancing, and shopping.

But yes, I do agree that how you see SL is a reflection on what you personally enjoy. Mostly I sail, play golf, explore, landscape, and create mesh - and break that up with a little roleplay - so how I see it biased by this view.

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2 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

Now that sounds so familiar. Where have I seen that before? Oh yeah... SL. Didn't work out too well for SL. Wonder what makes them (LL) think it will work for Sansar?

LL said Sansar is meant to be the Wordpress of VR. They'd provide the back end and people would create VR worlds using it. The experience owners would do the advertising, supply the URL to their experience on the experience owner's website, etc. LL said owners can charge people to enter their experiences, can add plug-ins to the viewer to customize the viewer to an experience, specify the avatars used in an experience (my favorite part ... everyone's a penguin). Back in 2014 Ebbe was asked about registration ... he thought experience owners could provide their own registration system, but perhaps LL could provide a default one. The marketplace was spoken of as a source for experience owners to get things to place in experiences. LL is not in the end-user business with Sansar. I think user support gives them enough headaches in SL.

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13 minutes ago, Parhelion Palou said:

The Lab has nothing to do with retaining players.

That's not what I see.  LL seems to put quite a bit of effort into developing new games and seasonal venues (the Halloween ride and the Winter Wonderland, most recently), offering prize perks for both Premium and non-Premium members, and making changes to the pricing and L.I. capacity of land -- all efforts that seem aimed at making current residents more likely to stay here.  You can argue about how successful some of the specific strategies have been, but I think it would be wrong to say that the Lab isn't trying to affect retention.

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26 minutes ago, Parhelion Palou said:

The Lab has nothing to do with retaining players. Linden Lab provides the framework; it's up to the experience owners to create something that will keep players coming back to their experiences.

I'd suggest they are far more synergistic then you are stating.

The lab must provide an environment that doesn't make people want to tear their hair out, The lab must also understand the audience and provide the tools and capabilities that creators can use to provide the content to entertain. You can't create a game like Obduction, or Beat Sabre - unless the capabilities to create those experiences are there in the first place. You can't even create groundbreaking storytelling content like the Great C unless the tools are there.

Quite simple, one will not work without the other.

Then assuming you have the most fantastic playable experience; if the navigation system is broken/nausea inducing, if the systemic choices like using small green text on the experience selection screen are incorrect, if the system is non-performant and buggy - then people will not stay.

Yes, there does need to be compelling content, but if the design choices the lab make are wrong then people won't stay. Even the best content can't break through a shocking UX. Even the best content can't crack the coconut if it can't be found.

From the first second in Sansar, this is bad UX, a tiny little window floating in space, can you read the green text because I can't!

To scroll this tiny 2D world list, think the wand buttons work? Nope, you have to grab the little scroll bar and operate this in a 2D paradigm.

IMG_0035.thumb.JPG.47b326a9eb78c74fc7ad3dc0a90a5254.JPG

Edited by Callum Meriman
Added some links to videos, they ARE worth watching to see VR done right.

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1 minute ago, Rolig Loon said:

That's not what I see.  LL seems to put quite a bit of effort into developing new games and seasonal venues (the Halloween ride and the Winter Wonderland, most recently), offering prize perks for both Premium and non-Premium members, and making changes to the pricing and L.I. capacity of land -- all efforts that seem aimed at making current residents more likely to stay here.  You can argue about how successful some of the specific strategies have been, but I think it would be wrong to say that the Lab isn't trying to affect retention.

LL is definitely trying to affect retention in SL. In Sansar LL's customers are the experience owners. End users are experience owner's customers.

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11 minutes ago, Parhelion Palou said:

LL said Sansar is meant to be the Wordpress of VR. They'd provide the back end and people would create VR worlds using it. The experience owners would do the advertising, supply the URL to their experience on the experience owner's website, etc. LL said owners can charge people to enter their experiences, can add plug-ins to the viewer to customize the viewer to an experience, specify the avatars used in an experience (my favorite part ... everyone's a penguin). Back in 2014 Ebbe was asked about registration ... he thought experience owners could provide their own registration system, but perhaps LL could provide a default one. The marketplace was spoken of as a source for experience owners to get things to place in experiences. LL is not in the end-user business with Sansar. I think user support gives them enough headaches in SL.

Even if I had really wanted an answer to a rhetorical question, your explanation does not address the question. 

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11 minutes ago, Rolig Loon said:

That's not what I see.  LL seems to put quite a bit of effort into developing new games and seasonal venues (the Halloween ride and the Winter Wonderland, most recently), offering prize perks for both Premium and non-Premium members, and making changes to the pricing and L.I. capacity of land -- all efforts that seem aimed at making current residents more likely to stay here.  You can argue about how successful some of the specific strategies have been, but I think it would be wrong to say that the Lab isn't trying to affect retention.

They are now but they didn't really bother for many, many years. A too little, too late situation for most of us that have been in SL for a long time.

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29 minutes ago, Parhelion Palou said:

Back in 2014 Ebbe was asked about registration ... he thought experience owners could provide their own registration system, but perhaps LL could provide a default one.

Back in 2014 Ebbe was asked if our SL inventory could be used in Sansar, he said it would all be importable and usable. Asked about LSL scripts in these objects he said he would look at allowing LSL to run as well, alongside c#. Ebbe also said our avatars could be used as they are.

I wouldn't put much credence in what Ebbe said back then. Sansar turned into a very different beast.

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44 minutes ago, Parhelion Palou said:

LL said Sansar is meant to be the Wordpress of VR.

Makes you wonder how successful Wordpress would have been if it had only been open to registered users and hardware requirements had been high enough to exclude most internet users.

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12 minutes ago, Callum Meriman said:

Back in 2014 Ebbe was asked if our SL inventory could be used in Sansar, he said it would all be importable and usable. Asked about LSL scripts in these objects he said he would look at allowing LSL to run as well, alongside c#. Ebbe also said our avatars could be used as they are.

I wouldn't put much credence in what Ebbe said back then. Sansar turned into a very different beast.

I still have links to all those all posts and kept a HUGE list of articles from about that time on an alternate blog. So I would really like to see that data (threads are still here on the forums I believe -- last time I checked anyway).  He did say  at the very begining that MESH would be importable and usable and it is. I have been importing mesh from here for almost five months. He ALSO said (very early in the conversations here on the forums that ANIMATIONS and SCRIPTS would not work there. Animations are fbx format and scripts are C#  (hope that is correct I don't do scripting.  And he said that we could keep our friends list and transfer money readily.  That didn't happen (although now with the conversion rates so close the money thing "might" be possible in the future -- again nothing has been said on that just musing). 

 

I do think that at one time they hoped to port things over for folks (just my perception; nothing concrete or quotable) but it became obvious fairly early on that would not work.  So yes, there were many changes --- 

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If LL put SL on Steam, that would just confirm that SL is a video game, and too many grognards would be upset by that.

The 18 plus nature of SL is what's keeping it from being mainstream. It's too easy to stumble across a sex dungeon and it's too easy to lie about your age online. I like that scene from Futurama where 3 kids on a trenchcoat get into an adult chatroom just because hey said they were 18.

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2 hours ago, Callum Meriman said:

I'd believe there are more people roleplaying, sailing, surfing, exploring, decorating their H&G, taking photos and just talking to friends around a campfire then there are doing sex, dancing, and shopping.

But yes, I do agree that how you see SL is a reflection on what you personally enjoy. Mostly I sail, play golf, explore, landscape, and create mesh - and break that up with a little roleplay - so how I see it biased by this view.

I dunno. There are a lot of people dancing.

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3 hours ago, femhalf said:

There isn't much to do for non-creators, beside events, shopping, and sex.

 

3 hours ago, KanryDrago said:

there is a ton of stuff to do in sl except events, shopping and sex. The fact that you think there isn't says more about you than it does about sl 

 

2 hours ago, femhalf said:

I meant in general, since the most popular activities fall under the umbrella category of events, i.e., clubs, RP, shopping, conferences, etc.  There are a few exceptions such as photography, gambling, raising breedables, and FPS/shooter games.  These are generally not as popular as the former though.  That was kind of my point.

 

2 hours ago, Callum Meriman said:

I do agree that how you see SL is a reflection on what you personally enjoy. Mostly I sail, play golf, explore, landscape, and create mesh - and break that up with a little roleplay - so how I see it biased by this view.

 

3 minutes ago, HarrisonMcKenzie said:

I dunno. There are a lot of people dancing. 

There are, we get good numbers at our dances. But how you see the game does depend a lot on what you do yourself.

I don't see SL as a sex game, others do. Sex happens in SL, we all know that, but there is a lot more. To me sex and shopping is only a small fraction of the game. Same for dancing.

I run dances in the club, but I don't enjoy dancing myself so much, I tolerate it. So my view of the world is very biased to someone who only dances, sexes and shops.

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Mostly for @Blush Bravin

I asked on Discord about the "editing on the fly" and Ebbe came on :D.  Hmmmmm.  BAD info. It WAS said but it is apparently NOT happening any time soon. I do not know the backstory. Sorry for getting you excited. 

Meanwhile we had our first BEYOND ODD "sexy" (well not really) uploaded today. It was some sort of odd cow on a human frame with HUUUUUUGE breasts and some equally large male thingies under the skirt.  It is still in the store but may not be on Monday.  Honestly it is so very ridiculous (head shaking). 

There are some exceedingly lovely and "sexy" undies by the new bloomers gal. She seems very good!   

And such was the weekend in Sansar :D

 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

I asked on Discord about the "editing on the fly" and Ebbe came on :D.  Hmmmmm.  BAD info. It WAS said but it is apparently NOT happening any time soon. I do not know the backstory. Sorry for getting you excited. 

It's still exciting because in the past when we would bring it up at meetings the response seemed to imply it wouldn't happen. So this is progress! :D

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7 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

Meanwhile we had our first BEYOND ODD "sexy" (well not really) uploaded today. It was some sort of odd cow on a human frame with HUUUUUUGE breasts and some equally large male thingies under the skirt.  It is still in the store but may not be on Monday.  Honestly it is so very ridiculous (head shaking).

First checks it's PG picture... This one?

738a6c4509f017509e12625aba8da7fc.png.4a7d6296c65a831380d04329faf45059.png

They say:

Quote

Please be aware this avatar Complies with the rules, It is clothed! If you go looking for "it" and you get an eye full, that's on you, the skirt is there to hide her endowment ; ) and the endowment is there to enhance ERP if so is desired.

But I would say that even hidden endowments would be against the rules, if it's G rated. Likely ERP is against the rules too?

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I was at Five Word Story before coming here, so I'm working very hard to keep those action adjectives in the pic above associated with a different picture in my mind :)

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