Second Life on Steam?

[Solar Legion]

While the bulk of Steam's offerings are indeed, games, they do have bits of software and other tings not traditionally thought of as "games" on offer ....

Not much mind you but still ...

Either way, honestly neither Second Life nor Sansar belong on Steam, despite Valve's now lax approach to certain kinds of content.

[Qie Niangao]

2 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

Either way, honestly neither Second Life nor Sansar belong on Steam, despite Valve's now lax approach to certain kinds of content.

This got me thinking: Wasn't the whole point of Sansar supposed to be an environment in which to create Steam-worthy content, rather than to itself be appropriate for Steam?

I mean, isn't listing Sansar on Steam sorta like listing Wordpress.com on a directory of blogs?

[Solar Legion]

2 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

This got me thinking: Wasn't the whole point of Sansar supposed to be an environment in which to create Steam-worthy content, rather than to itself be appropriate for Steam?

I mean, isn't listing Sansar on Steam sorta like listing Wordpress.com on a directory of blogs?

Well .... Blender is listed on Steam, if that's the way you're looking at it.

[Qie Niangao]

5 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

Well .... Blender is listed on Steam, if that's the way you're looking at it.

Oh  then I guess I must admit that I have no idea what Steam is for... nor, I guess, how anything could fail to qualify.

[Solar Legion]

1 minute ago, Qie Niangao said:

Oh  then I guess I must admit that I have no idea what Steam is for... nor, I guess, how anything could fail to qualify.

The way it is shaping up? Steam is more or less a kind of Software repository for the modern age. The big problem though is how Steam started out (game distribution) - many still see it in that light and sadly this skews things a fair bit.

At the very Least Linden Lab listed Sansar as being Early Access - Steam's equivalent to Late Alpha/Early Beta.

There are some actual games listed on Steam that have been Early Access for years.

If they ever listed Second Life on Steam, they'd have a problem: It's not exactly Early Access but it sure as heck isn't exactly a truly finished/polished product either.

[Chic Aeon]

8 hours ago, femhalf said:

should've said, that it's not a platform for creative freedom due to all the restrictions.  I'm not just talking about adult content either.  I'm also talking about experiences.  The process in SL is a lot more streamlined.  Creators can upload, drag and drop objects freely, then change things on the fly.  From what i've read and seen, you cannot do that with Sansar experiences.  Correct me if i'm wrong though.  Creators also have the ability to build within SL using it's tools.

The workflow isn't all that different from SL -- if you are making mesh objects.

Creat the model in Blender, bake textures if you do that, import the object WHILE INWORLD with textures or naked as you prefer, place the object in the scene (or rez in SL) and move around as you like.

You can scale, retexture, tint, animate textures,  add maps such as normal and similar things.  

You can "redo" an object that has been rezzed, add scripts and take a copy back into inventory. All this is done INWORLD, but in edit mode -- pretty much the same as it would be if you were working in a private sim with no visitors allowed.  You FEEL LIKE you are inworld. None of that is done in your 3D ap.

You can still IM with folks in other experiences while building. You CANNOT chat with them face to face yet but that is coming --- the ability to work together at the same time on a project.

On the fly editing is coming soon according to Ebbe. This announced last week. I am not sure what that is but lots of folks seemed thrilled.

There are no inworld building tools and there may never be. THAT is different. The rest is very similar.

You can upload custom avatars but they currently must conform to the default skeleton. You cannot upload clothing and accessories for custom avatars (that looks like a long way off at the moment). 

 

[Chic Aeon]

42 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

This got me thinking: Wasn't the whole point of Sansar supposed to be an environment in which to create Steam-worthy content, rather than to itself be appropriate for Steam?

I mean, isn't listing Sansar on Steam sorta like listing Wordpress.com on a directory of blogs?

Sansar IS a platform not a world. 

But within that platform there are experiences and many of those are GAMES that appeal to STEAM folks. It is possible that in the future individual games made on the Sansar Platform could be on steam with a cost to play (that has always been the plan -- letting people monetize their games). Right now there are no games (that I know of as I don't play) that are robust enough to go out on their own. 

So in effect, Sansar at present is a gateway to a mini-game collection == if you want to look at it like that.

 

[Chic Aeon]

7 hours ago, Selene Gregoire said:

I don't have the kind of money it would take to buy the equipment needed. 

Besides, I'm waiting for the Holodeck to be released.

You don't need any equipment. I have none.   You can do MOST (not all) things on a regular  -- fairly hefty -- computer).  

[Solar Legion]

Oy .... Here we go .....

If Sansar is a Platform then it needs to be listed under the Software category - period.

It isn't, it is listed as an Early Access Game.

Argue all you'd like, extol Sansar's virtues all you like, if your argument is that it is a Platform then it is incorrectly listed.

[Wulfie Reanimator]

Sansar most appropriately fits into the Games section of Steam over any other category, it's pointless to argue about the semantics of what is a game or what is Sansar.

By the way, Steam's main store content categories are Games, Software, Hardware, and Videos. Not just games. (Clarifying since some people weren't aware.)

Edited December 9, 2018 by Wulfie Reanimator

[Callum Meriman]

44 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

Oy .... Here we go .....

If Sansar is a Platform then it needs to be listed under the Software category - period.

What if it's a platform for making platformers!

(({hugs} I am being silly))

[ChinRey]

36 minutes ago, Callum Meriman said:

What if it's a platform for making platformers!

For those who don't know what a platform is, Google is your friend:

[KanryDrago]

2 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

Sansar IS a platform not a world. 

But within that platform there are experiences and many of those are GAMES that appeal to STEAM folks. It is possible that in the future individual games made on the Sansar Platform could be on steam with a cost to play (that has always been the plan -- letting people monetize their games). Right now there are no games (that I know of as I don't play) that are robust enough to go out on their own. 

So in effect, Sansar at present is a gateway to a mini-game collection == if you want to look at it like that.

 

And there will never be a game in Sansar that is better than a custom made game, if people come to sansar to make games and expect to be paid I expect that they will be sadly disappointed.

[Luna Bliss]

38 minutes ago, KanryDrago said:

And there will never be a game in Sansar that is better than a custom made game, if people come to sansar to make games and expect to be paid I expect that they will be sadly disappointed.

Sansar doesn't have to be "the best" to succeed...it only needs to meet the needs of a reasonable number of people at the right price point. For example, I can create a Word Press website but it's most likely not "the best", but it would be good enough for my needs and cost less money and time if I created it or even hired someone to create it via the WordPress templates. Can't be a more fitting analogy really, as Sansar's stated intention is to be the WordPress of VR.

I'm excited about Oculus Quest and Vive Shadow VR (VR standalone solutions).....will they make VR more mainstream as they hope? That's what will give the best chance for Sansar to succeed.

Edited December 9, 2018 by Luna Bliss

[KanryDrago]

28 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Sansar doesn't have to be "the best" to succeed...it only needs to meet the needs of a reasonable number of people at the right price point. For example, I can create a Word Press website but it's most likely not "the best", but it would be good enough for my needs and cost less money and time if I created it or even hired someone to create it via the WordPress templates. Can't be a more fitting analogy really, as Sansar's stated intention is to be the WordPress of VR.

I'm excited about Oculus Quest and Vive Shadow VR (VR standalone solutions).....will they make VR more mainstream as they hope? That's what will give the best chance for Sansar to succeed.

Sansar won't succeed ever. Put bluntly its crap and will never have anything to offer those that wish to merely consume vr content. I have had a headset for 2 years now. I have been to Sansar and looked around. I never felt any desire to go back much less spend money in the place. Why would I play a game on Sansar when I can play Lone Echo, skyrim VR, subnauticaa. Games on Sansar are even more hinky than trying to use sl to play fps

[Blush Bravin]

4 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

On the fly editing is coming soon according to Ebbe. This announced last week. I am not sure what that is but lots of folks seemed thrilled.

This is indeed exciting news! A lot of us have been wanting this for a long time.

3 hours ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

By the way, Steam's main store content categories are Games, Software, Hardware, and Videos. Not just games.

The only reason I got on Steam in the first place was to buy Marvelous Designer at a significant discount while it was on sale. I don't play any games through steam.

38 minutes ago, KanryDrago said:

Sansar won't succeed ever. Put bluntly its crap and will never have anything to offer those that wish to merely consume vr content.

This plainly shows your bias. It's not for you. We get it. But you're also fooling yourself because you really know nothing about Sansar and yet love criticize it at every opportunity. 

Edited December 9, 2018 by Blush Bravin

[Selene Gregoire]

3 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

You don't need any equipment. I have none.   You can do MOST (not all) things on a regular  -- fairly hefty -- computer).  

Equipment as in hefty enough graphics card. Or do you not consider the computer and it's parts equipment? 

[Selene Gregoire]

2 hours ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

Sansar most appropriately fits into the Games section of Steam over any other category, it's pointless to argue about the semantics of what is a game or what is Sansar.

By the way, Steam's main store content categories are Games, Software, Hardware, and Videos. Not just games. (Clarifying since some people weren't aware.)

I'd say it belongs under both Games and Software, since it is a platform where games can be created.

[Selene Gregoire]

2 hours ago, ChinRey said:

For those who don't know what a platform is, Google is your friend:

[Selene Gregoire]

1 hour ago, KanryDrago said:

And there will never be a game in Sansar that is better than a custom made game, if people come to sansar to make games and expect to be paid I expect that they will be sadly disappointed.

There has been a game or two that were developed in SL and released outside of SL, so why not in Sansar? Granted the games are not the typical 3D environment games most of us are now used to seeing but they are games nonetheless and they were custom made.

[Luna Bliss]

1 hour ago, KanryDrago said:

Sansar won't succeed ever. Put bluntly its crap and will never have anything to offer those that wish to merely consume vr content. I have had a headset for 2 years now. I have been to Sansar and looked around. I never felt any desire to go back much less spend money in the place. Why would I play a game on Sansar when I can play Lone Echo, skyrim VR, subnauticaa. Games on Sansar are even more hinky than trying to use sl to play fps

Is it written somewhere that Unity type features are precluded from development at Sansar...features needed to create more elaborate games?
Aside from game sohphistication however, people play all kinds of simple games and often prefer them. Think Farmville. Sansar might not fit your prefernece for games but that doesn't mean it won't be fun for others.

Personally I think Sansar will evenually appeal to far more people than gamers. It's amazing how many VR applications are already being used in education and medicine, not to mention the military. And of course the appeal to creators is already locked in. Sansars versatility is its strength.

[animats]

4 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

All this is done INWORLD, but in edit mode -- pretty much the same as it would be if you were working in a private sim with no visitors allowed.  You FEEL LIKE you are inworld. None of that is done in your 3D ap.

Yes. SL should have something like that. Think of SketchUp or Archimatrix integration into an SL viewer. The builder sees SketchUp drawn in-world. Other users see a cloud or dust, like a rezzing avatar, to indicate construction. When the builder saves, the built object appears in-world.

[animats]

Today's Sansar usage numbers are still very low. The all time high remains at 72. High for the last 24 hours, 66.

Percentage of Steam users using Sansar: 0.002%

Needed to break into the top 100: 3,500, to beat Farming Simulator 17.

Farming Simulator 17. The 100th most popular game on Steam. This is how good it has to be today to make the top 100.

 

[Chic Aeon]

1 hour ago, Selene Gregoire said:

Equipment as in hefty enough graphics card. Or do you not consider the computer and it's parts equipment? 

I thought you meant VR gear. 

Sansar DOES need a more robust machine than SL overall but there are now choices in quality of graphics -- just like SL. So that isn't as important as it once was.  You also need a fairly fast connect, but a few of the creators -- from Europe -- are on 1.5 MBPS connections and aside for WAITNG (which they must have to do a lot) it works for them. 

There are minimum requirements listed on the website. 

[Chic Aeon]

1 hour ago, Blush Bravin said:

This is indeed exciting news! A lot of us have been wanting this for a long time.

So what exactly is your understanding of "on the fly editing"?  I can think of so many options and the folks at the meeting seemed to already know LOL.