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Second Life on Steam?

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Just now, KanryDrago said:

Now try telling us who is the customer for it

Likely Creatives who don't have the skill-set or patience to learn Unity or Unreal. They'll make their 3D homepage and be happy.

 

Edited by Callum Meriman

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1 hour ago, Callum Meriman said:

Likely Creatives who don't have the skill-set or patience to learn Unity or Unreal. They'll make their 3D homepage and be happy.

 

3D homepage... lol

Active Worlds already had those years ago. I forget exactly what they were called but they were the smallest "world" available and were meant to be "webpages". 

Seems like LL has been beaten to the punch... again.

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2 hours ago, Selene Gregoire said:

Active Worlds already had those years ago.

Active Worlds was VR compatible? That's pretty impressive for something launched 23 years ago! :P

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8 hours ago, chibiusa Ling said:

14 whole people right now.

Whats that count exactly? All the logged in Sansar users, or just the ones who use Steam to log in?

9 hours ago, chibiusa Ling said:

Hmmm.....waiting.....waiting.....waiting.......Oh that looks pretty......what else is there.....waiting....waiting.....waiting

In some terms thats pretty similar to SL, especially when it come to load avatars/attachments... but the major difference is, i just can go/fly/swim/teleport to the next parcel or sim. That illusion of freedom makes SL much more attractive to me.

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2 hours ago, Resi Pfeffer said:

Whats that count exactly? All the logged in Sansar users, or just the ones who use Steam to log in?

In some terms thats pretty similar to SL, especially when it come to load avatars/attachments... but the major difference is, i just can go/fly/swim/teleport to the next parcel or sim. That illusion of freedom makes SL much more attractive to me.

(I think that count is just the Steam users, which is kinda what this thread was about originally -- at least that's true of the larger numbers cited earlier in the thread, so "apples to apples" I guess.)

I'm interested in this "illusion of freedom". Some of it may be the enduring challenge of finding stuff the Sansar avatar can do at all (see, e.g., this reason for the success of stand-up comedy in Sansar 😜). But there's also what we might call the "range of roaming" -- how much one can just casually bump into on a virtual journey without a major, multi-minute disruption. Minimizing disruptions between venues is why I keep harping on SL's load times for textures (especially) and other assets, and certainly SL is by design more roaming-friendly than worlds following the current "bigger is big enough" fashion.

Many folks look to faster experience-loading to help Sansar feel less dead, and there's surely room for technical improvement there (in addition to experience curators feeling some incentive to minimize their own load times).

But also, might it be fixable with a change of internal "markets"? Could a single Sansar experience be subdivided into many... oh, let's call them "parcels"... sublet to different curators? (Maybe this already exists in Sansar, somewhere I haven't seen it?) Admittedly, the range of portal-free roaming would still be limited to an experience, but just giving experiences some multiple "landowner" variety might ease the single-vision claustrophobia we also find with SL island estates (with relief but a brief teleport away).

That raises a cluster of technical questions (which must have answers, I just don't know where to them) What happens as Sansar experiences grow to hold massively more content? Are there limits to how much can be stuffed into an experience? Do initial load times scale linearly as a function of total content complexity or can loading be incremental as in SL?

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3 hours ago, Resi Pfeffer said:

Whats that count exactly? All the logged in Sansar users, or just the ones who use Steam to log in?

I think a lot of the existing Sansar creators left steam reviews. As long as steam is still installed on their PC then they now count to this number.

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9 hours ago, Fluffy Sharkfin said:

Active Worlds was VR compatible? That's pretty impressive for something launched 23 years ago! :P

Did I say anything about VR? No. Don't read more into my post than what is there.

My point was that someone else had the idea and implemented it long before LL "stole" it.

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On ‎12‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 10:13 AM, Klytyna said:
On ‎12‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 8:40 AM, Luna Bliss said:

As to your first point, needing the mass market for success via low hardware requirements, I've wondered if LL is (at times) in a bit of a bubble in terms of appraising how the rest of us live.

It's actually a common problem amongst game devs generally...

Well we can only hope they have project managers that keep a close eye on the coders and builders. One does have to restrain them, as I learned first hand from managing many SL projects. They get excited by what they're doing and forget we need to do what we were hired to do and not what is of creative interest.

**I wasn't referring to this aspect though when speaking to the 'bubble', but to the fact that it's so very expensive to live in San Francisco (or Seattle & Boston), and so LL might not take into consideration enough the fact that most of us live on very little $ compared to the areas where their offices reside.

Edited by Luna Bliss

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21 hours ago, ChinRey said:
On ‎12‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 8:40 AM, Luna Bliss said:

* As to your first point, needing the mass market for success via low hardware requirements,

Yes to all you said, but remember we were talking about 3D demos for commercial RL products here. The general market consumers aren't under any circumstance going to buy any etra hardware just to take a look at a 3D demo of whatever they think of buying.

Agreed, but you know I'm thinking on down the line...like:   ;0

 

minority report giphy.gif

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23 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:
On ‎12‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 8:40 AM, Luna Bliss said:

... However, prices are coming down. Medium priced PC's these days (800 to 1000 usd) can access VR, and eventually everyone will need to replace their PC...

Maybe not. The PC market is shrinking as more folks come to rely on phones as their principal computing devices. In fact, most of us rely on our phones for "general computing" only using PCs for specialized tasks -- which was not really the case when the Sansar project started.

Until we all get inexpensive AR contact lenses, it's hard to beat phones as the mass market delivery vehicle for VR. Onboard RAM keeps doubling every few years, graphics power keeps improving... if I had to bet on VR, that's where I'd put my chips.

Sansar could be on Daydream in a month, I suspect. Second Life would take longer--especially since it would take a while to get beyond superstitions and unrealistic expectations of how people actually use VR.

I'm excited about the Oculus Quest...envisioning it as the precursor to how VR will evolve (processor, sensors, & screen are all on board -- no tethering) Albeit, in a very rudimentary form of course with loads of problems regarding speed, battery power, and cooling needing to be solved.

Isn't Daydream an Android product? Sansar doesn't do Android, although I heard Hi-fi wants to make Android compatible for Hi-fi. Quest is Android too with their Snapdragon processor, and in my mind this does not bode well for Sansar if they don't solve the Android issue (if the standalone headsets such as Oculus Quest and the Vive Shadow become big).

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1 hour ago, Selene Gregoire said:

Did I say anything about VR? No. Don't read more into my post than what is there.

My point was that someone else had the idea and implemented it long before LL "stole" it.

Your point completely ignored the distinction between 3D environments displayed in 2D and 3D environments displayed in virtual reality.  Taking existing concepts and applying new technology to them is how progress is made.  Not every step in the right direction leads somewhere, but suggesting that because someone already had an idea and implemented it nobody should attempt to adapt or improve upon it is like saying we don't need mobile phones or tablets that are capable of playing video files because someone already invented these...

eeoui34b29itgdbozbz1.jpg.1f44111562b29aa

 

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16 minutes ago, Fluffy Sharkfin said:

Your point completely ignored the distinction between 3D environments displayed in 2D and 3D environments displayed in virtual reality.  Taking existing concepts and applying new technology to them is how progress is made.  Not every step in the right direction leads somewhere, but suggesting that because someone already had an idea and implemented it nobody should attempt to adapt or improve upon it is like saying we don't need mobile phones or tablets that are capable of playing video files because someone already invented these...

eeoui34b29itgdbozbz1.jpg.1f44111562b29aa

 

You are way off base there. You're reading way more into my post than what is there and going off on a completely different tangent that isn't really related to what I was getting at. Never even came close to "suggesting that because someone already had an idea and implemented it nobody should attempt to adapt or improve upon it". All I said was that someone else already had the idea and ran with it. You supplied all the rest out of your own mind, not my words.

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2 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

You are way off base there. You're reading way more into my post than what is there and going off on a completely different tangent that isn't really related to what I was getting at. Never even came close to "suggesting that because someone already had an idea and implemented it nobody should attempt to adapt or improve upon it". All I said was that someone else already had the idea and ran with it. You supplied all the rest out of your own mind, not my words.

*hands out tinfoil hats to all*

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1 minute ago, Selene Gregoire said:

You are way off base there. You're reading way more into my post than what is there and going off on a completely different tangent that isn't really related to what I was getting at. Never even came close to "suggesting that because someone already had an idea and implemented it nobody should attempt to adapt or improve upon it". All I said was that someone else already had the idea and ran with it. You supplied all the rest out of your own mind, not my words.

I see.  So when you said

14 hours ago, Selene Gregoire said:

Seems like LL has been beaten to the punch... again.

you weren't suggesting that their attempt to improve on an existing platform by combining it with new technology was a waste of time?  What were you implying then?

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On 12/16/2018 at 7:43 PM, Qie Niangao said:

The PC market is shrinking as more folks come to rely on phones as their principal computing devices. In fact, most of us rely on our phones for "general computing" only using PCs for specialized tasks...

I still use PC with big display for everything. My next computer will be PC too. I have a phone which has all the "bells and whistles" for computing and net but I rarely use those. The display is just too tiny for comfortable experience. It's ok for some tasks, but for "general computing" not. Not for me anyway.

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30 minutes ago, Fluffy Sharkfin said:

you weren't suggesting that their attempt to improve on an existing platform by combining it with new technology was a waste of time?  What were you implying then?

No, I was not. I was not implying anything. You pulled that stuff out of your own head.

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18 hours ago, bigmoe Whitfield said:

So once again SANSAR, not Stupid,  is for another market

Check your history...

They onlystarted talking about it being for a different market when the SL'ers they asked responded to the news that no content would be transfered across with "We can't take our account, names and inventories with us? SOD that! We'll stay here...".

And if the concurrency figures, and the response on Steam are anything to judge by...

"So once again Project STUPID, not Sansar, is for NO market..."
 

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1 minute ago, Selene Gregoire said:

No, I was not. I was not implying anything. You pulled that stuff out of your own head.

Okay, so you're just posting stuff for the sake of it and have no actual point to make or anything pertinent to add to the conversation?  Thanks for the clarification, saves me from wasting time reading your posts in the future I guess. ;)

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2 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

Agreed, but you know I'm thinking on down the line...like:   ;0


 

minority report giphy.gif

Seriously... What kind of retarded muppet wants to have to wave their arms around in exaggerated windmill gestures to do basic computing, instead of using say, a mouse, and moving ONE hand a few inches, and clicking with a finger press on said mouse?

"I'm not logging in to check my email today, I dislocated my shoulder trying to work Blunder 3D version 57.4 yesterday with the new Cyber-Cretin Vom-Cam Windmilling UI..."

Remember how a certain games console company acted like we'd all throw away our keyboards, mice, joysticks and joypads, to use the new Cyber-Cretin friendly hand held "motion stick" thing with a mo-cap camera, so we'd have to dance like deranged junkies to play a game?

Most Cyber-Cretin concepts of "Futureness" are apparently based on bloody stupid ideas shown in bloody awful movies.



 

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3 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

Agreed, but you know I'm thinking on down the line...like:   ;0

minority report giphy.gif

The only advantage I can imagine using that kind of system for computing is that we would get LOTS of exercise.
It looks very tiresome way to use a computer! Who would like that?

Panting-dogs.gif.cdfd6d3c868118c221cb4c2e96bceea6.gif

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1 hour ago, Fluffy Sharkfin said:

Okay, so you're just posting stuff for the sake of it and have no actual point to make or anything pertinent to add to the conversation?  Thanks for the clarification, saves me from wasting time reading your posts in the future I guess. ;)

Thank you. Saves me from having to deal with your intentional asshattery.

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11 minutes ago, Coby Foden said:
4 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

Agreed, but you know I'm thinking on down the line...like:   ;0

minority report giphy.gif

The only advantage I can imagine using that kind of system for computing is that we would get LOTS of exercise.
It looks very tiresome way to use a computer! Who would like that?

LOL well u know young Tom had a helluva lot to do in that movie...keeping track of all those criminals in the past AND the future :)
But speaking of exercise, yes...I just bought this VR game that's a bit more active and I'm standing while slicing up menacing squares heading toward me with my super beam wands of light. Previous to this game I never stood up in VR, but I am heading into the big time now!  Maybe soon people won't yell "what is WRONG with them!!" when I try to play a multi-player VR game...lol (I assumed, probably rightly so, they were referring to me anyway).

I just came across this fun augmented reality shopping app (not sure if it's fantasy or real, but is an interesting concept)...a little holo model pops up from your screen and demonstrates how the clothes really looks when worn:

 

augmented reality shopper.jpeg

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Just in case I get bored with my living room and want to redecorate:

 

 

 

Edited by Luna Bliss

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20 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I just bought this VR game that's a bit more active and I'm standing while slicing up menacing squares heading toward me with my super beam wands of light.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gV1sw4lfwFw

Beat Saber - simple, and a very good use of virtual reality goggles. It's like Dance Dance Revolution for upper body exercise.

1,317 users on Steam right now. Most of the successful VR games are like that - not too complicated, very responsive games.

Edited by animats
Fix link.
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