Second Life on Steam?

[Cindy Evanier]

2 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

Goddess give me strength ....

*reveals her hidden Goddess and grants strength to Solar before reverting back to sipping her tea in amusement*

[Luna Bliss]

5 minutes ago, Dqhp8507 said:

Well anyhow

Isn't my grandson cute?

 

[Ethan Paslong]

38 minutes ago, Dqhp8507 said:

However, it used to say only 2 bots where allowed,

page was last modified on 30 January 2014, at 08:11. ( as visible at any page there)

 

thats quite some time ago ... lóng before you were here...

Edited December 12, 2018 by Ethan Paslong

[Klytyna]

38 minutes ago, Dqhp8507 said:

and well finally the traffic needs to be redone or even removed

 

26 minutes ago, Dqhp8507 said:

it used to say 2 bots where the maximum in a sim but they changed it. Now traffic doesn't really mean anything anymore

 

21 minutes ago, Dqhp8507 said:

It used to have a limit of 2 i think, about a year ago it said 2 bots where the maximum.

 

17 minutes ago, Dqhp8507 said:

Well anyhow, traffic is completely useless if they can't make proper rules for bots. They should just remove traffic or rework it

Historically, my experience in Sl has been that the ONLY people who WHINE that much about "traffic" and how "bots are ruining it and something needs to be done" are thosepeople who are involved on the ownership or management of some rival hangout/club/whatever that isn't getting the attention the poster thinks it's ENTITLED to, and wants "something to be done" by LL to ensure other places don't get visitors the poster believes "belong rightfully to them".

Shall we check your profile and see if I'm guessing right here?

https://my.secondlife.com/Dqhp8507

Oh look!

In your feed posts...

"Come visit Ethereal, the place is shaping up! Feel free to sandbox and hangout here, i be one of the admins to watch things."

Seems I might be on target here...

33 minutes ago, Dqhp8507 said:

areas with avatars just standing around, generating money and traffic doing nothing.

Also, if they are "just standing about doing nothing" how are they "generating money" ?

Why are you SOannoyed that people choose to put money in tip jars with out asking YOUR permission first?

Could it be that you feel agrieved that the place you help run isn't attracting enough furries, or enough tips?

 

[Talu Alpha]

3 minutes ago, Klytyna said:

 

Shall we check your profile and see if I'm guessing right here?

https://my.secondlife.com/Dqhp8507

Oh look!

In your feed posts...

"Come visit Ethereal, the place is shaping up! Feel free to sandbox and hangout here, i be one of the admins to watch things."

Where exsactly are you trying to take this discussion? My web profile is old and outdated, i don't even use it. 

 

[Solar Legion]

Newsflash for you: Even if you use a TPV that allows you to fill out a "classic" profile, that information is mirrored to the Web Profile.

So what you are really saying is that not only is you profile in general outdated but that you haven't bothered to update it in some time - because you "don't use it" ...

Don't use profiles? Blank yours out.

[Talu Alpha]

The only profile i use is the inworld one, don't really care about this web stuff.

[Klytyna]

9 minutes ago, Dqhp8507 said:

Where exsactly are you trying to take this discussion?

13 minutes ago, Klytyna said:

Historically, my experience in Sl has been that the ONLY people who WHINE that much about "traffic" and how "bots are ruining it and something needs to be done" are thosepeople who are involved on the ownership or management of some rival hangout/club/whatever that isn't getting the attention the poster thinks it's ENTITLED to, and wants "something to be done" by LL to ensure other places don't get visitors the poster believes "belong rightfully to them".

Seems plain enough, the amount of "anti bots and alts"  whinging going on here seems to strongly indicate that your REAL complaint is... The place you are associated with isn't getting as many visitors or as many tip-jar donations/sales as you feel you are ENTITLED to, so you are demanding that "LL do something" to cripple your competitors and bring in a vast wave of "noobs with credit cards" to subsidise your dreams of fat profits.

That's why you are whinging about "bots", thats why you are whinging about "dead private sims" that "you don't understand how they stay open".

You are/were part of the management team of "a dead private sim"...

 

Edited December 12, 2018 by Klytyna

[Solar Legion]

Which is the same as the Web profile: Information in the "classic" profile is mirrored to the Web based one. That also means you use a TPV as the "official" Second Life client does not have an "in-world" profile - at all.

And even if the synchronization of the two systems was disabled by Linden lab ... it really doesn't matter as not all TPVs use the now deprecated/removed "classic" profile systems.

Update your profile or nuke it.

[Talu Alpha]

Updated it, deleted all the junk feeds from years ago. Sure i was a management in an old sim, really didn't care much, but now after exploring SL i just noticed how bad it really is. 

[Talu Alpha]

4 minutes ago, Klytyna said:

Seems plain enough, the amount of "anti bots and alts"  whinging going on here seems to strongly indicate that your REAL complaint is... The place you are associated with isn't getting as many visitors or as many tip-jar donations/sales as you feel you are ENTITLED to, so you are demanding that "LL do something" to cripple your competitors and bring in a vast wave of "noobs with credit cards" to subsidise your dreams of fat profits.

That's why you are whinging about "bots", thats why you are whinging about "dead private sims" that "you don't understand how they stay open".

You are/were part of the management team of "a dead private sim"...

 

Yeah keep throwing false accusations and trying to attack me... cute really... If someone is a bad person, you are Klytyna who needs to go for personal attacks because i proved a point you do not approve off.

[Solar Legion]

As has been pointed out to you already - you've only explored part of Second Life. You've also admitted as much by making it clear you ignore places that appear to be "empty" or have no traffic.

Enough.

Other, active users have made it clear to you that you haven't a clue - deal with it.

Oh and further, weren't you going to Ignore Kly? Again - if you're going to do so, do it and move on. The fact that you're bothering to respond to her at all after that statement shows your intent.

[Talu Alpha]

Anyway, i guess its useless to try having a civilized discussion here if i am to be attacked by people who can't bring anything useful to the discussion, will continue gaming for now i guess, i said what i wanted.

[Solar Legion]

Ah yes, another of those ago old tactics ...

No one is "attacking" you - get a grip.

Nor do you want a discussion - you want mindless agreement with your point of view.

[Klytyna]

1 minute ago, Dqhp8507 said:

Yeah keep throwing false accusations

Not a false accusation, I stated you are or were  a member of a sim management team, and you have openly admitted that both on your profile feed, about 1 year ago, and right here on this thread.

3 minutes ago, Dqhp8507 said:

who needs to go for personal attacks because i proved a point you do not approve off.

You haven't proved any points so far, approved of or not, quite the reverse...

YOU made fraudulent claims about a 2-bot-rule, that you cannot substantiate, except by repeatedly saying "it was there once, really it was"

YOU have made fraudulent claims that people who refuse to talk to you must be bots, and need to be dealt with.

YOU have made fraudulent claims that people who don't constantly move around must be bots and need to be dealt with.

YOU have denounced AFK sims because the afk avatars are there to make money, but you also complained about "dead sims" and questioned how they make money to stay open.

So... According to the un-logic displayed in your posts...

If the owners of a "dead sim" find a way to attract visitors and accumulate tips/sales, they are in the wrong for making money off their dead sim, but if they don't attract visitors, they are in the wrong for running a "dead sim".

What exactly have you proved, except that you are talking out of your backside?

15 minutes ago, Dqhp8507 said:

Sure i was a management in an old sim, really didn't care much, but now after exploring SL i just noticed how bad it really is.

So....

You've been in SL since late 2012, you were part of a sim management team a year ago, and SINCE then you've explored "everything SL has to offer" and discovered "how bad it is",  despite failing to notice any of that during the previous 5 & 1/2 years...

.
 

[Qie Niangao]

Thing is, @Dqhp8507 makes some valid points, even if things go dreadfully astray in the details. Yeah, I know, as I'm typing this, I'm having to bite my tongue as yet more posts drift in about this imaginary two-bot limit. Nonetheless, I'll try to focus on potentially useful discussion topics to be had here.

It's undoubtedly true that SL's reputation with the general public suffers because trolling/griefing YouTubers get more attention than they deserve -- "more than they deserve" exactly because what they're showing is so rare and utterly unrepresentative of what one actually experiences in Second Life. Not sure what's to be done about that -- can't really reduce trolling and griefing much lower than the negligible level it already is, so maybe try to popularize videos of more positive SL experiences. A bit dog-bites-man, though, so it's hard not to end up sappy.

Also, it surely was the case that SL was once more crowded, and that did indeed create a very different vibe. There was a time when the Lab simply couldn't print enough Mainland nor Estate sims to meet demand. (Yeah, I'm ancient. So sue me.) Having all those folks bumping into each other all the time really was exciting. Left to our own devices, though, with land relatively abundant, folks spread out very thin on the ground. Gatherings still happen of course -- clubs are still a thing -- but SL is not exactly the social platform in the way we expected it to be. It's sure not some great augmentation to RL meetings as it was hyped at some point; I wonder what we've learned as it turned out differently. How much of it is a technology mismatch -- virtual worlds aren't great for such meetings -- and how much of it is a kind of sampling bias where participants are self-selecting for introversion.

Finally (for now), the platform has evolved enough to make a pretty baffling mix of available products both on Marketplace and in-world. Lots of stuff is downright obsolete, but even stuff that's new is insanely hyper-specialized. Imagine a newbie trying to get a nicer texture on his avatar. First he has to find out that's called a "skin" -- and then he goes skin shopping. He comes upon a very nice looking face skin. Oh, but it only works on a particular brand and model of mesh head. And there's no corresponding body skin for the mesh body he's been saving to buy. Eventually he discovers the "skin" concept in SL is best represented by a very sparsely populated multidimensional array of incompatibilities through which folks have discovered maybe one or two happy paths, qualifying them as experts to their skin-shopping friends. Now explain Bento animations and why that facial AO script that was standard a few years ago doesn't actually do anything anymore. It's not merely difficult to learn, it's damned near impossible.

[Pamela Galli]

9 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

Thing is, @Dqhp8507 makes some valid points, even if things go dreadfully astray in the details. Yeah, I know, as I'm typing this, I'm having to bite my tongue as yet more posts drift in about this imaginary two-bot limit. Nonetheless, I'll try to focus on potentially useful discussion topics to be had here.

It's undoubtedly true that SL's reputation with the general public suffers because trolling/griefing YouTubers get more attention than they deserve -- "more than they deserve" exactly because what they're showing is so rare and utterly unrepresentative of what one actually experiences in Second Life. Not sure what's to be done about that -- can't really reduce trolling and griefing much lower than the negligible level it already is, so maybe try to popularize videos of more positive SL experiences. A bit dog-bites-man, though, so it's hard not to end up sappy.

Also, it surely was the case that SL was once more crowded, and that did indeed create a very different vibe. There was a time when the Lab simply couldn't print enough Mainland nor Estate sims to meet demand. (Yeah, I'm ancient. So sue me.) Having all those folks bumping into each other all the time really was exciting. Left to our own devices, though, with land relatively abundant, folks spread out very thin on the ground. Gatherings still happen of course -- clubs are still a thing -- but SL is not exactly the social platform in the way we expected it to be. It's sure not some great augmentation to RL meetings as it was hyped at some point; I wonder what we've learned as it turned out differently. How much of it is a technology mismatch -- virtual worlds aren't great for such meetings -- and how much of it is a kind of sampling bias where participants are self-selecting for introversion.

Finally (for now), the platform has evolved enough to make a pretty baffling mix of available products both on Marketplace and in-world. Lots of stuff is downright obsolete, but even stuff that's new is insanely hyper-specialized. Imagine a newbie trying to get a nicer texture on his avatar. First he has to find out that's called a "skin" -- and then he goes skin shopping. He comes upon a very nice looking face skin. Oh, but it only works on a particular brand and model of mesh head. And there's no corresponding body skin for the mesh body he's been saving to buy. Eventually he discovers the "skin" concept in SL is best represented by a very sparsely populated multidimensional array of incompatibilities through which folks have discovered maybe one or two happy paths, qualifying them as experts to their skin-shopping friends. Now explain Bento animations and why that facial AO script that was standard a few years ago doesn't actually do anything anymore. It's not merely difficult to learn, it's damned near impossible.

I was under the impression that all this is and has been common knowledge for anyone who makes an effort to stay well informed. For those who don’t, or have just recently, I guess it’s all new, and they assume it is new to everyone else.

Edited December 12, 2018 by Pamela Galli

[LittleMe Jewell]

1 hour ago, Dqhp8507 said:

I heard from someone SL used to have way more people, mostly due to how small areas were, with only the mainlands and not the huge range of dead private sims, new people found quickly where others hanged and built. They also told me most people worked together, creating new things rather than splitting apart and starting new clubs or sandboxes that die within a week. Everyone wants to make their own things and when it doesn't work, they leave SL for good. 

Yeah it took me about a week to learn how SL worked or were to go. Someone teached me how Firestorm worked and i been using it since, helps alot and offers more than the standard viewer does, such as flying in no fly zones or seeing who cams on you. Requires quite a bit of time to learn how to operate SL and that can be a problem for new users if they have a low attention span. 

RE: The first bolded point above:  You "heard from someone" is sort of like "my brother's girlfriend's friend's uncle once saw".  From someone that was in SL during its prime, so to speak - There was a boom period because a bunch of people read articles that made them think they could come here and "get rich quick". Many/most of those people didn't last.  SL usage has been slowly (very, very slowly) declining for many years, but is still running a pretty decent concurrency number.

RE: Second paragraph:  I call BS.  In a week's time, you very likely only learned the basics of how SL worked, and apparently from your posts you definitely haven't learned "were where to go" .  Yes, SL can be an issue for folks with a low attention span - then again, much of life is difficult for those folks. While LL does need to help users figure out this world a bit quicker, I see no reason to do it simply because too many of today's folks have short attention spans.
Side comment - in Firestorm, you cannot see who cams on you if they also use Firestorm and set the 'show' of that off.

 

1 hour ago, Dqhp8507 said:

I tend to avoid dead sims, mostly visited the ones that are actually active or have people in them, seen some places that are still around but completely abandoned, not sure how those people pay for those sims, they are insanely expencive to keep up. 

Do you truly realize how many sims there are in SL and that people from all over the world use it?  Have you visited every sim during every hour of the day?  If a sim is primarily used by someone in Australia and you are typically online during US evening hours, you would likely never encounter anyone on that sim -- and thus, with your logic, you would assume it was "dead".  Many, many sims will fall into the category of 'mostly only has users from a few time zones' and thus will always look 'dead' to the rest of us.

 

1 hour ago, Dqhp8507 said:

Sure there are dead sims, if they are private and aimed towards the public, like for example clubs, sandboxes, hangout spots and so on. Seen alot of them around SL. Not sure why they are still standing or why people pay for them. They have close to zero traffic and some are really well made. 

See my previous response.

 

1 hour ago, Dqhp8507 said:

It used to have a limit of 2 i think, about a year ago it said 2 bots where the maximum.

That section of the TOS hasn't been updated in years.  When the TOS changes, we all typically have to agree to the new one.  I keep a downloaded copy of all versions of the TOS and cannot find anything in any of them about a 2 bot limit.  I actually pull a new copy every month or two, comparing to the previous one, just in case LL modifies something that they don't think is serious enough to force everyone to 'agree to terms' again.  

 

29 minutes ago, Dqhp8507 said:

The only profile i use is the inworld one, don't really care about this web stuff.

While the Firestorm viewer will show you profiles in the form of the original legacy profile look, everything there is the same as what others see via the Web Profiles.  If you look at your profile in both locations, you will see this. 

So much for your statement of "Yeah it took me about a week to learn how SL worked".   

 

 

[Qie Niangao]

28 minutes ago, Pamela Galli said:

I was under the impression that all this is and has been common knowledge for anyone who makes an effort to stay well informed. For those who don’t, or have just recently, I guess it’s all new, and they assume it is new to everyone else.

Perhaps, but they seem topics germane to the thread topic of how SL would fare listed on Steam alongside Sansar. We're not required to discuss them further if they aren't of interest, but I feel that @Dqhp8507 took some unearned heat. For example, I don't read their post to say that SL is actually overrun by griefers, only that YouTube videos disproportionately show that aspect of SL, but got a response that "Trolling and Griefing are not at all that huge as you try to show." Another example: "The idea that the only exposure non-users have (or that their primary exposure) to Second Life consists of Griefer/Troll videos on YouTube is .... Ludicrous at best. As is this idea that older content being for sale still is some major detriment" but I think older, incompatible content indeed is a major source of frustration for new residents, and that there really are some folks whose whole exposure to SL are those unrepresentative YouTube videos -- and that set is not wholly disjoint from the population of Steam users.

For common knowledge, it seems to generate some strident objections.

[Selene Gregoire]

2 hours ago, Dqhp8507 said:

I heard from someone SL used to have way more people, mostly due to how small areas were, with only the mainlands and not the huge range of dead private sims, new people found quickly where others hanged and built. They also told me most people worked together, creating new things rather than splitting apart and starting new clubs or sandboxes that die within a week. Everyone wants to make their own things and when it doesn't work, they leave SL for good. 

I've been an SL resident for 14 years. The above is a load of hogwash. While there were (and still are) those who collaborated, there have always been more that never have. People don't leave SL just because their creations "don't work". Most private sims are residences (homes) and are going to be "dead" since most will be out and about exploring or hanging out at clubs or doing whatever it is they enjoy doing in SL besides just staying parked in their homes. 

[Paul Choi]

I don't think SL had half million even at their height (around 2009).

[Rolig Loon]

The region that I have owned for many years has 12 residents at the moment.  I don't believe we have ever all been on the region at the same time and, in fact, the only times when I can count on seeing more than one person there (me) are the four hours during the week that a gang of four or five of us gather to chat and dance.  That can leave my beautiful region vacant for up to 164 hours of the week (97.7% of the time), but hardly "dead".

Edited December 12, 2018 by Rolig Loon
Backwwards math, but you know what I meant :P

[Luna Bliss]

21 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

but I feel that @Dqhp8507 took some unearned heat.

Well could be...as I saw he did have a couple of valid points. I think more the issue is that he acted too cocky at times, like he absolutely knew the truth. He didn't listen to 10 or so other views by saying something like "hmmm, you have a point there" or "yeah, I was wrong there and not looking at all this in detail". Even a "well I see what you're saying, but I still believe this is true" could have gone a long way.

So people aren't too enthused about giving him the few points he might have you know? Overall the forum is pretty forgiving if someone admits to a fault or even seems willing to listen to other points of view.

[KanryDrago]

The main problem with the dprandomletters and numbers post is it boils down to

"Change sl like this and it will attract more people like me!!!!!"

and it doesnt stop to think whether the rest of us would consider that a positive thing

 

[Pamela Galli]

1 hour ago, Qie Niangao said:

I think older, incompatible content indeed is a major source of frustration for new residents, and that there really are some folks whose whole exposure to SL are those unrepresentative YouTube videos -- and that set is not wholly disjoint from the population of Steam users.

As I said,  common knowledge for those who make the slightest effort to be well informed — like pretty much everything else in his news flash.