KanryDrago Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 43 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: Is it written somewhere that Unity type features are precluded from development at Sansar...features needed to create more elaborate games? Aside from game sohphistication however, people play all kinds of simple games and often prefer them. Think Farmville. Sansar might not fit your prefernece for games but that doesn't mean it won't be fun for others. Personally I think Sansar will evenually appeal to far more people than gamers. It's amazing how many VR applications are already being used in education and medicine, not to mention the military. And of course the appeal to creators is already locked in. Sansars versatility is its strength. No it is Sansars weakness because unity and unreal engine have made it easy to develop VR apps by building in support a jack of all trades thing such as Sansar will always be worse than a custom built app. If Sansar had a chance it would have hundreds of concurrent users already. It doesnt it has already failed. The sooner they drop it the better. I love vr I spend a lot of time in VR. When it comes to Sansar its just what is this back in the predawn era of vr....its not a good platform, it lacks interactivity, it is worse graphically than most vr its just a big steaming pile of meh.....save this post and then if sansar becomes a success you can quote it back at me, I would offer a monetary wager but it would be like free money for me so I won't bother Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Gregoire Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 4 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said: I thought you meant VR gear. Sansar DOES need a more robust machine than SL overall but there are now choices in quality of graphics -- just like SL. So that isn't as important as it once was. You also need a fairly fast connect, but a few of the creators -- from Europe -- are on 1.5 MBPS connections and aside for WAITNG (which they must have to do a lot) it works for them. There are minimum requirements listed on the website. Thank you for telling me what is important to me. I had no idea. Are you trying to educate an ancient SL resident or offering info to the uneducated masses on the forum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KanryDrago Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 1 hour ago, Blush Bravin said: This plainly shows your bias. It's not for you. We get it. But you're also fooling yourself because you really know nothing about Sansar and yet love criticize it at every opportunity. I went into Sansar with an open mind, possibly even optimistic after all the labs had created sl which I enjoy. It became clear however that the labs had 1) no competence in vr ffs it took them 5 years to create something that is barely a tech demo 2) Had no understanding of users of VR other than those that create. I am not hugely creative in sl hands up I admit that. However for sansar to succeed you dont just need creators you need people to buy the stuff you make and you need a lot more buyers than creators. There is nothing , zilch there for people who aren't creators. My view is the labs think they are going to get firms using it for their vr ads that is about all it is fit for, sadly for them firms are custom building their vr ads at least the big and medium firms and they are a better by far than anything Sansar could offer.....maybe mom and pop shops will use it who knows but if you are banking on Sansar being a hit sorry it has already failed as if it had anything to offer people like me would keep coming back to check it out instead of taking a look then uninstalling it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KanryDrago Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 Tell you what lets do a test....non creators who are excited for sansar please drop a post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 7 minutes ago, KanryDrago said: Tell you what lets do a test....non creators who are excited for sansar please drop a post Well, I have to say that what I'm hearing about it is not exciting me much. But then I'm not a gamer, and I'm not a creator, in the sophisticated, tech-proficient sense. IF Sansar develops content that seems worthwhile to me -- museums, art, that sort of thing -- then maybe. OR if it develops in-world tools that make it relatively easy for a non-coder like myself to create content myself (exhibits, art, etc.), then maybe. But it doesn't sound as though either of these things is likely to happen. And, insofar as the real appeal for me of SL is "community," it also doesn't sound as though I'd find it a very congenial place in that sense. What might worry me a bit, and maybe should worry LL a little too, is that I suspect I'm not untypical in this regard of SL users, and maybe even of a lot of potential non-Resident users too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KanryDrago Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 5 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: Well, I have to say that what I'm hearing about it is not exciting me much. But then I'm not a gamer, and I'm not a creator, in the sophisticated, tech-proficient sense. IF Sansar develops content that seems worthwhile to me -- museums, art, that sort of thing -- then maybe. OR if it develops in-world tools that make it relatively easy for a non-coder like myself to create content myself (exhibits, art, etc.), then maybe. But it doesn't sound as though either of these things is likely to happen. And, insofar as the real appeal for me of SL is "community," it also doesn't sound as though I'd find it a very congenial place in that sense. What might worry me a bit, and maybe should worry LL a little too, is that I suspect I'm not untypical in this regard of SL users, and maybe even of a lot of potential non-Resident users too. Scylla I was actually looking for non creators who have tried Sansar and loved it to stand up and be counted, not merely those that had heard of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 Just now, KanryDrago said: Scylla I was actually looking for non creators who have tried Sansar and loved it to stand up and be counted, not merely those that had heard of it. Fair enough. But if LL can't get people like me in the front door to begin with . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KanryDrago Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 3 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: Fair enough. But if LL can't get people like me in the front door to begin with . . . True Scylla however I was actually trying to show that not even those users that have tried it are coming back. Found this on steam and exactly what I was referring to and no not me as I dont have a steam account I speak as a girl who just loves to play and socialise, I'm not a content creator, perhaps that one fact is why you enjoy it and I don't. And despite second life and its flaws its still better overall for many reasons. I'm not following the heard, I think that you lack the perspective of a common player, you see the game as great due to the creation aspects. Change is fine, and I support it just like other game series like resident evil and final fantasy with their big changes that people moaned about. I enjoy change but Sansar just isn't a good place for anything but creators right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 5 minutes ago, KanryDrago said: True Scylla however I was actually trying to show that not even those users that have tried it are coming back. Found this on steam and exactly what I was referring to and no not me as I dont have a steam account I speak as a girl who just loves to play and socialise, I'm not a content creator, perhaps that one fact is why you enjoy it and I don't. And despite second life and its flaws its still better overall for many reasons. I'm not following the heard, I think that you lack the perspective of a common player, you see the game as great due to the creation aspects. Change is fine, and I support it just like other game series like resident evil and final fantasy with their big changes that people moaned about. I enjoy change but Sansar just isn't a good place for anything but creators right now. Sure, of course. So, you have the "opinions" of two women, one of whom has actually tried it, and the other of whom is at least a potential user (i.e., me), and (barring the grammar and spelling above), I think we're saying some pretty similar things. I'm absolutely speaking from a position of ignorance, but my position is that of the vast majority of potential users. Why should I try this, when even those who have are apparently confirming my own impressions? So, if they aren't keeping people like her who have tried it, or attracting people like me who might, who are they appealing to? Who is going to "consume" this content that is supposedly going to be created? Gamers? Really? Businesses? Anyone remember SL's "Enterprise" model? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bebe Bunny Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 How I see Sansar right now: LL offers their platform to be like a VR museum for big companies to make an interactive promo of some kind. LL creators get to build the experiences. Random people visit during the hype for a while and then it goes back to being something people barely talk about, rinse and repeat. And then there are the curious and creators that have a positive approach and like to build pretty things but won't have much use of that in the future, maybe get a few nice visits and that's it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Levenque Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 (edited) 6 hours ago, Chic Aeon said: Sansar IS a platform not a world. But within that platform there are experiences and many of those are GAMES that appeal to STEAM folks. It is possible that in the future individual games made on the Sansar Platform could be on steam with a cost to play (that has always been the plan -- letting people monetize their games). Right now there are no games (that I know of as I don't play) that are robust enough to go out on their own. So in effect, Sansar at present is a gateway to a mini-game collection == if you want to look at it like that. If my definition of 'world' and yours match (admittedly that's a big if) then your first sentence alone, to say nothing of the rest of the post, erases 99.9% of any interest in Sansar for me. I didn't come to SL because I thought it would be a 'world'; I had no idea what to expect. I've since learned, and am learning. SL, for me, IS a world. My interactions with its people, and above all the shared experiences we've had, fuel my fondness for the place. Edited December 9, 2018 by Dillon Levenque damned apostrophes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChinRey Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 Review balance: Thursday: 80% positive Saturday: 75% positive Sunday: 70% positive Too early to say if it's a trend. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Sylvannas Zulaman said: How I see Sansar right now: If the ice caps don't melt (fat chance) I see a world in 10 years or so where everyone is wearing a type of lightweight headset similar to a pair of glasses. It easily toggles between VR (virtual reality) & AR (augmented reality), and most people spend their time online in AR or VR. An online furniture store provides a link via their website or VR home just like the links we have in Sansar now. The customer enters into an Experience like Chic Aeon's to walk around in 3D and get a real feel for what they need for their home (link & photo below). Or maybe the explorer wants to visit a friend's home, or an art installation, or a museum, or a live concert...or... Links to all these are provided on people's websites or VR home spaces. https://atlas.sansar.com/experiences/chicaeon/snow-daze Edited December 9, 2018 by Luna Bliss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Dillon Levenque said: 7 hours ago, Chic Aeon said: Sansar IS a platform not a world. If my definition of 'world' and yours match (admittedly that's a big if) then your first sentence alone, to say nothing of the rest of the post, erases 99.9% of any interest in Sansar for me. I didn't come to SL because I thought it would be a 'world'; I had no idea what to expect. I've since learned, and am learning. SL, for me, IS a world. My interactions with its people, and above all the shared experiences we've had, fuel my fondness for the place. I think you could say Sansar is a platform in the same way that SL is a platform. SL has many worlds in it (if we think of islands as worlds unto themselves, or as the mainland being a type of world or continent), and Sansar also contains many worlds...there's just not the illusion of them being connected ...the illusion created by our map in SL. The Atlas in Sansar however is a type of map that points to all the worlds one can visit. ** Chic was mentioning games in the paragraph you quoted of hers, but not all of Sansar Experiences are games by any means. https://atlas.sansar.com/ Edited December 9, 2018 by Luna Bliss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: IF Sansar develops content that seems worthwhile to me -- museums, art, that sort of thing -- then maybe. OR if it develops in-world tools that make it relatively easy for a non-coder like myself to create content myself (exhibits, art, etc.), then maybe. But it doesn't sound as though either of these things is likely to happen. And, insofar as the real appeal for me of SL is "community," it also doesn't sound as though I'd find it a very congenial place in that sense. It already has all those...museums, art, and more. It's easy to create a world...you just have to learn a new interface (but it's not a difficult interface and only annoying at times because my mind is in the groove of the SL interface). Community...yes there is a small one...and they meet...and talk on Discord. Not a huge community at this time. * I don't know if Sansar will succeed. VR is growing slower than some thought it would, but it is growing, and I think that will be the main hurdle (along with a possible lack of funding). Edited December 9, 2018 by Luna Bliss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callum Meriman Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 26 minutes ago, ChinRey said: Review balance: Thursday: 80% positive Saturday: 75% positive Sunday: 70% positive Too early to say if it's a trend. That's to be expected, the ratings are - I think - in what is without doubt at this point an SL vs Sansar "war of the residents". People creating in Sansar will somewhat give it good to glowing reviews, people from SL dropping in will somewhat burn it. Both of those two camps are painfully obvious to see. Language like "experience" is a huge give away. Then there are some non-gamer Sansarites who won't pay the $5 to review, a few SL residents who stand back silent without reviewing, and in all of these existing LL customers, a few strangers will float past. Of all of these, the strangers are the ones to watch, they are also easy to spot: I think it could sink to the "Somewhat positive" rank on the war, then slowly recover a bit as (if) it finds it's audience. The Lab's question is do they know the audience, and if they do, how do they catch people like Ghost and Reflecting Void and turn them from 2 hour players to people who stay? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blush Bravin Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 2 hours ago, KanryDrago said: Tell you what lets do a test....non creators who are excited for sansar please drop a post The problem is most of the people in Sansar don't read these forums. There are many who have never stepped foot into Second Life. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selene Gregoire Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 27 minutes ago, Callum Meriman said: The Lab's question is do they know the audience, and if they do, how do they catch people like Ghost and Reflecting Void and turn them from 2 hour players to people who stay? Truth in advertising? "We don't know what it is other than a place to build in VR but give us your money"? /tongue in cheek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blush Bravin Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 2 hours ago, Chic Aeon said: So what exactly is your understanding of "on the fly editing"? I can think of so many options and the folks at the meeting seemed to already know LOL. Well you're asking this now makes me want to back up because what I think it means and what it is could be totally different. But my take and what we've been asking for is the ability to edit without having to go into edit mode. For instance, if I'm walking in my experience and notice that I haven't "planted" a tree it would be great to be able to just reach over and give it a tug without having to go into edit mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
femhalf Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 8 hours ago, Solar Legion said: Oy .... Here we go ..... If Sansar is a Platform then it needs to be listed under the Software category - period. It isn't, it is listed as an Early Access Game. Argue all you'd like, extol Sansar's virtues all you like, if your argument is that it is a Platform then it is incorrectly listed. This reminds me of the debates on whether SL is a game or virtual world. We've come full circle with Sansar again. 😄 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callum Meriman Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 1 minute ago, femhalf said: This reminds me of the debates on whether SL is a game or virtual world. SL is a game. Clearly. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
femhalf Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 3 hours ago, KanryDrago said: Tell you what lets do a test....non creators who are excited for sansar please drop a post To be fair, the same can be said for SL. There isn't much to do for non-creators, beside events, shopping, and sex. Sansar already has both shopping and user created events (experiences). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chic Aeon Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 48 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said: Well you're asking this now makes me want to back up because what I think it means and what it is could be totally different. But my take and what we've been asking for is the ability to edit without having to go into edit mode. For instance, if I'm walking in my experience and notice that I haven't "planted" a tree it would be great to be able to just reach over and give it a tug without having to go into edit mode. Ah, well we will wait and see. But you would still need to BAKE -- or maybe "that tree" would just be unbaked and stay there until you went back and baked? Yes, that could save a LOT of time. Whatever it is, it will likely be welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
femhalf Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 12 minutes ago, Callum Meriman said: SL is a game. Clearly. I've learned to call it a game to non-SL users, and virtual world to SL and opensim users. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KanryDrago Posted December 9, 2018 Share Posted December 9, 2018 8 minutes ago, femhalf said: To be fair, the same can be said for SL. There isn't much to do for non-creators, beside events, shopping, and sex. Sansar already has both shopping and user created events (experiences). there is a ton of stuff to do in sl except events, shopping and sex. The fact that you think there isn't says more about you than it does about sl 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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