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IvyLarae

Recurring things in Second Life

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36 minutes ago, IvyLarae said:

I understand that how I worded that last point wasn't that great....

I understand that I did a really poor job in stating my point on this topic

 

You don't say =^^=

38 minutes ago, IvyLarae said:

..customization, avatars and otherwise, is a BIG part of SL. You can customize pictures, Land, buildings, if you want to you can create your own homes completely from scratch, SL is built ENTIRELY by its users, that's one of the main attractions of second life. in SL you can be who you want to be without really any limits as long as it follows the ToS. I know there are people in SL who don't care about how you look and while this is okay, I'm not saying it isn't, you can't deny that how you look plays a significant role on this platform

 

And redeemed too :) Especially realising the bit that "how you look plays a significant role on this platform" is not the case for all of us (well not all the time, I should add). Do NOT visit when I am up on my build space is all I am saying.... last one who did is still having nightmares, poor thing.

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36 minutes ago, IvyLarae said:

THIS! again I understand that I did a really poor job in stating my point on this topic but Syo pretty much nailed what I was trying to say. I wasn't trying to say that "Oh if your extremely outdated you shouldn't even bother with me" or anything like that, I was simply saying customization, avatars and otherwise, is a BIG part of SL. You can customize pictures, Land, buildings, if you want to you can create your own homes completely from scratch, SL is built ENTIRELY by its users, that's one of the main attractions of second life. in SL you can be who you want to be without really any limits as long as it follows the ToS. I know there are people in SL who don't care about how you look and while this is okay, I'm not saying it isn't, you can't deny that how you look plays a significant role on this platform

Also this, I couldn't have said it any better

The first bolded part...that's not what you said, at all, lmao, not even close. What you said is how people look will determine whether or not people are even going to be willing to open someone's profile. It wasn't just poor wording, I don't believe. I do believe it's how you feel. You're free to feel however you wish. I also believe you're probably in the majority on this one, because a LOT of people feel the same way. I'm not one of them, but a lot of others are. People really do make judgment calls on people based primarily on looks, and I will always think that's shallow-whether in rl, or sl, or anywhere else really. I can recognize that my own opinion is probably the least popular one on the matter. I won't try to pretend I'm somehow better for feeling/thinking the way I do. I may well be a horrible person for thinking looks don't matter all that much, and *never* play a big role-they barely register as a role at all for me.  Yes, even in a virtual world, a virtual environment, where appearance(surroundings, people, objects) plays a very big role...I can place no measurable significance on how others look. I place a HUGE amount of significance on the visual representations that actually matter to me..surroundings, objects, creativity, etc...and others may choose to place that significance anywhere they wish.

On the second bolded...yes, I can with absolute certainty, deny that my appearance, and others' appearances play a significant role to my sl. I can also say with absolute certainty that the exact opposite is true for others. Neither side is "right", neither side has a "better" approach...everyone decides for themselves. If you(general) want to be someone that places a huge amount of significance on appearance, go on with your bad self and do it...but don't get offended when I suggest it's not my method, or when I suggest mine works better for me, or if I suggest that it's shallow. If it works for you, go for it. I don't have to understand it, no one does. I can think people act pretty shallow when dealing with others, and still think those people aren't bad folks overall. I have some friends who are shallow (when it comes to appearance) as all get out-especially in sl, lol, they're still, mostly, really nice people, even if I think they're a bit misguided, lol. They enjoy their sl, I enjoy my sl, sometimes our experiences mesh well, sometimes they don't. They're cool with me telling them they're acting like jerks, and I'm cool with them telling me to take my damn pajamas off and put some real clothes on already after over a year in the same outfit. :D They're cool knowing some folks think their approach is shallow, and I'm cool knowing that my approach sounds altruistic but is quite likely to have people question my motives, lol. It's all good.

That's the huge difference between me and my friends, and many of these similar discussions we have had here about appearance....we don't take offense. We're all pretty comfy with the way we live our lives, sl, or rl really. We know we have differing opinions, neither side declaring to be "right", just, what works for us.

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31 minutes ago, Cindy Evanier said:

Some of you would die if you saw my os grid standalone region avi :D 

Ruth....or some version of it...FTW! :D

I haven't updated my OS, anything, in over 10 years. So....I def. wouldn't die 😛  (that's sad, isn't it? lmao)

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1 minute ago, Tari Landar said:

haven't updated my OS, anything, in over 10 years

she doesn't even wear clothes as its a closed region, who cares.  I think she has a bikini somewhere and a free skin I picked up hypergridding around

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1 minute ago, Cindy Evanier said:

she doesn't even wear clothes as its a closed region, who cares.  I think she has a bikini somewhere and a free skin I picked up hypergridding around

My skin is one I made, in 2008. I'm pretty sure she has on a bikini, because the last time I was in OS, I was playing around with a pond. Beyond that, I have no clue what she's up to. She may have moved out, found a new plot and built a home, got married, had a few kids, developed a drinking problem, fought with her husband an awful lot, separated, took the kids, divorced, lost her kids due to drinking, and now sits quietly in the dark with her bottle and no company because she's a terrible person.

Or

She may just still be standing in the middle of the sim waiting for me to return with really, really sore legs..10+ years is a super long time to stand still, after all. 

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I talk too much....but, i wanted to say something else, lol and not attach it to my other comments 😛

When I said I wasn't claiming to somehow be a better person for my way of thinking, I meant that, wholeheartedly. I KNOW I have my own shallow moments, those times when I am arrogant, ignorant(willfully or otherwise). those moments when I make piss poor judgments about other people, etc... ALL humans do. I'm not, in any way, shape, or form, trying to pretend I don't lol.

The reason I don't care about appearances as much as most people, well, the main reason, is that I grew up (rl) with something that majorly affects how people literally see me. People have made judgment calls about my appearance my entire life. I get stared at, I get pointed at and pointed out. I get laughed at. I get questions. I get, or have gotten, a LOT of piss poor treatment from people that make shallow judgment calls based on appearance, and it leaves a lasting impression. Rather than use that as fuel to be a better person, because sometimes I like being human too and trying to always be the better person is not a good life goal (for me), I took on the realization that even IF no one else likes the way I look, I'm worth way more than looks alone, all people are. I'm not a better person because I putt less significance on appearance (I'm not saying I'm a better person at all, ftr) I just think my approach leaves way more room for improvement, for adaptation, for change...than shutting off that possibility. I'd rather think the best of someone and be proven wrong, than think the worst of someone and be proven right. Weird, maybe, but it works when you're a kid who's so different from others that you  really HAVE to take a different approach than most of them do. It only got worse as I got older. I don't need to put up with people claiming my appearance somehow changes my worth in sl, it's already changed my worth in rl(not to myself, I happen to love me,  to others, however..)

I also literally can't see any of you in the way that you can see you, lmao. If I made judgment calls based on how all of you look...I wouldn't talk to very many people in sl. Y'all kinda look like blobs most of the time (and so do I). None of your pretties make a whole lot of sense to someone that can't see them ;) 

Edited by Tari Landar
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33 minutes ago, Tari Landar said:

I talk too much....but, i wanted to say something else, lol and not attach it to my other comments 😛

When I said I wasn't claiming to somehow be a better person for my way of thinking, I meant that, wholeheartedly. I KNOW I have my own shallow moments, those times when I am arrogant, ignorant(willfully or otherwise). those moments when I make piss poor judgments about other people, etc... ALL humans do. I'm not, in any way, shape, or form, trying to pretend I don't lol.

The reason I don't care about appearances as much as most people, well, the main reason, is that I grew up (rl) with something that majorly affects how people literally see me. People have made judgment calls about my appearance my entire life. I get stared at, I get pointed at and pointed out. I get laughed at. I get questions. I get, or have gotten, a LOT of piss poor treatment from people that make shallow judgment calls based on appearance, and it leaves a lasting impression. Rather than use that as fuel to be a better person, because sometimes I like being human too and trying to always be the better person is not a good life goal (for me), I took on the realization that even IF no one else likes the way I look, I'm worth way more than looks alone, all people are. I'm not a better person because I putt less significance on appearance (I'm not saying I'm a better person at all, ftr) I just think my approach leaves way more room for improvement, for adaptation, for change...than shutting off that possibility. I'd rather think the best of someone and be proven wrong, than think the worst of someone and be proven right. Weird, maybe, but it works when you're a kid who's so different from others that you  really HAVE to take a different approach than most of them do. It only got worse as I got older. I don't need to put up with people claiming my appearance somehow changes my worth in sl, it's already changed my worth in rl(not to myself, I happen to love me,  to others, however..)

I also literally can't see any of you in the way that you can see you, lmao. If I made judgment calls based on how all of you look...I wouldn't talk to very many people in sl. Y'all kinda look like blobs most of the time (and so do I). None of your pretties make a whole lot of sense to someone that can't see them ;) 

Tari, I can't speak for others here, but I think you're certainly kind of missing the point that I was making.

I can entirely understand, on the basis of what you say here, why you would treat the issue of judging by appearance as an ethical issue -- one that requires a "should" or "shouldn't." On the whole, for what it's worth, I agree with you in most regards: anyone who dismisses someone else on the basis mostly or entirely of looks is a pretty shallow person. Appearances are often, or even usually, the place where we begin to form judgements about people, but you'd have to be a bit of an idiot if that's also where you end.

And really, that's my point. It's actually a little irrelevant whether or not you think that appearances are worth paying attention, or whether you choose or decline to make judgements based upon them.

It's irrelevant, I have been suggesting, because, whether you think it's valid or not, people do, inevitably, express themselves through how they look, even if they are consciously pretending they are not, because that conscious choice does tell you something about them. And if you choose to ignore that, then all you're really doing is depriving yourself of another source of information about them. Your choice, but it's a bit like reading the SL profile of someone, and consciously ignoring the bio on their First Life page. Principled or not, you're just shutting yourself off from part of how people express themselves.

And expressing themselves is the key point here. In RL, there is a great deal about my looks that I have no control over. And there are things I do have control over that I am not going to change just because our culture thinks I should; an example are all of the things that glossy magazines and Hollywood tell us are "feminine" and "womanly." But, again, in refusing to change those things -- not shaving parts of my body, for example, or worrying about whether I have a "thigh gap" or not -- I am making a statement about myself. As I do, also, when I choose my clothing.

A huge difference between SL and RL is, of course, that I can control lots of things about my appearance in the former that I can't control in the latter. Even if my personal financial situation restricts what I buy and wear, there are many, many ways in which my avatar appearance reflects choices about my identity that aren't available to me in RL.

To simply write off that expression of myself as pointless or invalid is, again, to miss part of the message I am sending about myself. And, arguably, it's also dismissing the validity of my right to self-fashion my identity this way.

Edited by Scylla Rhiadra
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24 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Tari, I can't speak for others here, but I think you're certainly kind of missing the point that I was making.

I can entirely understand, on the basis of what you say here, why you would treat the issue of judging by appearance as an ethical issue -- one that requires a "should" or "shouldn't." On the whole, for what it's worth, I agree with you in most regards: anyone who dismisses someone else on the basis mostly or entirely of looks is a pretty shallow person. Appearances are often, or even usually, the place where we begin to form judgements about people, but you'd have to be a bit of an idiot if that's also where you end.

And really, that's my point. It's actually a little irrelevant whether or not you think that appearances are worth paying attention, or whether you choose or decline to make judgements based upon them.

It's irrelevant, I have been suggesting, because, whether you think it's valid or not, people do, inevitably, express themselves through how they look, even if they are consciously pretending they are not, because that conscious choice does tell you something about them. And if you choose to ignore that, then all you're really doing is depriving yourself of another source of information about them. Your choice, but it's a bit like reading the SL profile of someone, and consciously ignoring the bio on their First Life page. Principled or not, you're just shutting yourself off from part of how people express themselves.

And expressing themselves is the key point here. In RL, there is a great deal about my looks that I have no control over. And there are things I do have control over that I am not going to change just because our culture thinks I should; an example are all of the things that glossy magazines and Hollywood tell us are "feminine" and "womanly." But, again, in refusing to change those things -- not shaving parts of my body, for example, or worrying about whether I have a "thigh gap" or not -- I am making a statement about myself. As I do, also, when I choose my clothing.

A huge difference between SL and RL is, of course, that I can control lots of things about my appearance in the former that I can't control in the latter. Even if my personal financial situation restricts what I buy and wear, there are many, many ways in which my avatar appearance reflects choices about my identity that aren't available to me in RL.

To simply write off that expression of myself as pointless or invalid is, again, to miss part of the message I am sending about myself. And, arguably, it's also dismissing the validity of my right to self-fashion my identity this way.

I get what you're saying, and I think we actually agree on a lot more than it seems.  I know that appearances make a difference, and for some, it can make a huge difference. I can also understand why someone might not understand my own viewpoint, or might not understand how I can *not* let appearances dictate much of anything, for me. 

I can give you an example, that might help. I have a very specific loathe in sl, for a very specific kind of dress/appearance, well, something necessary for a certain type of appearance anyway.  I try my hardest not to be judgmental about people that utilize these products, but I fail an awful lot. I make judgments about their appearance based on their use of these products which are necessary for a specific look (I'm trying not to be offensive here to others..trying being operative word, lol). But, even IF I make that quick judgment call about what that person is wearing..I don't attach their worth as a person to it, or dismiss the mere idea of interacting with them, much less anything else. Make sense? Like, even if I loathe this kind of appearance with every fiber of my being, to the point that I want to smack someone upside the head for wearing it (yep, human, I have those moments) I will STILL talk to someone, open their profile, give them an opportunity, I will give them the time of day, even if I can't stand looking at them. That is how I separate out my judgments on people versus how I treat them after making said judgments. I make them, judgments, the same as anyone else, it's the effect I let them have that seems to differ.  One of my best friends in sl (we met in TSO, lol), rl too, we've known each other for nearly 15 years now, uses this specific kind of appearance/product now and then...and even she knows how I feel about it. She's still awesome, and we met while she was wearing it. But, I didn't let how she looked stop me from saying hi, I didn't let it stop me from looking deeper. I didn't let it dictate anything, except that I throw things at her when she wears it now 😛  She knows I love her as a person,  I don't have to love, or even like, all of her choices-especially appearance wise..she also wears shoes..ugh, who DOES that? I would've lost out on a LOT of I had ever let how I treat her, or view her, be based on her appearance when we met. I would've missed seeing her just after giving birth to her first child, spending time with her after she lost her mother- both in rl, not sl..I would've missed out on HER, and I'm not willing to ever think that's a good thing. She's a weirdo, but she's my weirdo...so she can keep wearing things that make me want to throat punch her, and I'll continue to greet her with hugs..or a shoe, because, you know, throwing shoes is fun too :D

 

I do want to make something very, very clear here though-which I did not. I do not, in any way, want to invalidate the way(s) others express themselves, make themselves appear, etc., and how that affects them/their sl. I believe that EVERYONE should do what they feel most comfy with-which is why I place such little importance, not to invalidate their choices but to make it known that they are worth more than how they look *to me*. I want people to feel like they can and should express themselves however they wish (within TOS, obviously, lol). I don't want MY opinion to even for a moment make people feel like I am invalidating their choice(s). My apologies-very sincerest apologies, if that's how it makes people feel when I tell them their appearance doesn't matter all that much to me, or play a role in their worth in my eyes. I mean that, truly, because I know what it feels like to have your own appearance, of all things, be the deciding factor-and it really, really sucks. I will accept you for you, whether or not your appearance is something to my liking. I want to be taken the same way, though. I don't want people invalidating me, my worth, what I am capable of, etc...because they don't like how I look. I may not make the same calls as some people, but I'm still as human as anyone else. If I wanna look like a fugly troll in sl, I should be able to in sl, without someone actually thinking I AM a fugly troll in rl too (I make no promises on that one 😛 , I might be)  or somehow thinking I am less because I chose to look like a fugly troll, in a virtual environment. Make sense?

I can accept that this is human nature, this is how humans interact, this is how they think, and I'm pretty good with being odd man out. Y'all wear whatever tickles your pickles..and I'll continue to think you're more than the sum of what your pixels look like, and respect that you make choices the same as anyone else...and I don't have to like them, to like you :D

 

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3 hours ago, Tari Landar said:

The first bolded part...that's not what you said, at all, lmao, not even close. (1)What you said is how people look will determine whether or not people are even going to be willing to open someone's profile. It wasn't just poor wording, I don't believe. I do believe it's how you feel. You're free to feel however you wish. I also believe you're probably in the majority on this one, because a LOT of people feel the same way. I'm not one of them, but a lot of others are. People really do make judgment calls on people based primarily on looks, and I will always think that's shallow-whether in rl, or sl, or anywhere else really. I can recognize that my own opinion is probably the least popular one on the matter. I won't try to pretend I'm somehow better for feeling/thinking the way I do. I may well be a horrible person for thinking looks don't matter all that much, and *never* play a big role-they barely register as a role at all for me.  Yes, even in a virtual world, a virtual environment, where appearance(surroundings, people, objects) plays a very big role...I can place no measurable significance on how others look. I place a HUGE amount of significance on the visual representations that actually matter to me..surroundings, objects, creativity, etc...and others may choose to place that significance anywhere they wish.

On the second bolded...yes, I can with absolute certainty, deny that my appearance, and others' appearances play a significant role to my sl. (2)I can also say with absolute certainty that the exact opposite is true for others. Neither side is "right", neither side has a "better" approach...everyone decides for themselves. If you(general) want to be someone that places a huge amount of significance on appearance, go on with your bad self and do it...but don't get offended when I suggest it's not my method, or when I suggest mine works better for me, or if I suggest that it's shallow. If it works for you, go for it. I don't have to understand it, no one does. I can think people act pretty shallow when dealing with others, and still think those people aren't bad folks overall. I have some friends who are shallow (when it comes to appearance) as all get out-especially in sl, lol, they're still, mostly, really nice people, even if I think they're a bit misguided, lol. They enjoy their sl, I enjoy my sl, sometimes our experiences mesh well, sometimes they don't. They're cool with me telling them they're acting like jerks, and I'm cool with them telling me to take my damn pajamas off and put some real clothes on already after over a year in the same outfit. :D They're cool knowing some folks think their approach is shallow, and I'm cool knowing that my approach sounds altruistic but is quite likely to have people question my motives, lol. It's all good.

That's the huge difference between me and my friends, and many of these similar discussions we have had here about appearance....we don't take offense. We're all pretty comfy with the way we live our lives, sl, or rl really. We know we have differing opinions, neither side declaring to be "right", just, what works for us.
 

(1) You're free to believe what you want there, but I was just simply stating ( however poorly stated it may have been, late night posting really should be illegal at this point lol) Something I had heard people say, seen in profiles, and personally agreed with. I didn't however say that at all in my original post, I just meant that in general. I ask you to please refrain from putting words in my mouth because that gets absolutely nothing done.
(2) I'm not trying to be nit picky, but you contradicted yourself with this very statement. You said that no side is right or wrong, but then said if I wanted to "continue placing a huge amount of significance on appearance, go on with your bad self and do it...but don't get offended when I suggest its not my method, or when I suggest mine works better for me, or that I suggest that its shallow" basically you said what I was doing was wrong, when you started out saying neither side was

 

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I do think one's look can be important, and a thoughtful reflection of the human behind it. Here's an example...
2053464280_WelcomeVoid.thumb.jpg.1f16e69187a6c4c885ea885d755add24.jpg

That would be the lovely, talented, and sorely missed Void Singer.

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1 hour ago, Tari Landar said:

I have a very specific loathe in sl, for a very specific kind of dress/appearance, well, something necessary for a certain type of appearance anyway

If i promise not to wear that, are we good?

 

1 hour ago, Tari Landar said:

That is how I separate out my judgments on people versus how I treat them after making said judgments. I make them, judgments, the same as anyone else, it's the effect I let them have that seems to differ.

Absolutely and always, one should evaluate one's response to something, indeed anything, that is communicated by others, whether it's through appearance, or language, or behavior. Am I being fair? Is this really sufficient evidence to judge? What other things about the person should I know? How much of my reaction is about me, rather than about them?

So yes, we agree Tari.

There's a certain kind/shape of spike heeled boot very popular in SL (and only in SL: if you wore these in RL, you'd be unable to walk every again) that I absolutely despise. I have recently been able to school myself to actually acknowledge the existence of those who wear them.

It's been uphill all the way.

*hugs*, Tari. I'd be thrilled to not be judged upon my appearance by someone so discerning as you. If that makes any sense.

Edited by Scylla Rhiadra
Missing apostrophe. Love me for how I look, not for my grammar.

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6 hours ago, Syo Emerald said:

I agree with the OP and think that many in this thread take that last part too much as a "I don't talk to newbie avatars/2007-freebie-galaxy avatars". Its not about that. Its not about how much cash someone has spend on their avatar or how up-to-date their items are.

In Second Life we can all look how we want. No genes or environment prevent us from archieving the look we want. Creating an avatar is a form of self-expression and I do think that tells something about the person behind it. If not, everyone here could be comfortable with every kind of avatar. Sure, its not a 100% guide to finding the good matches and avoiding the bad apples, but it can give clues. Silly example: The people giving this annoying "I'm gonna murder you, if you look at my sweet hony baby darling...something!" speach in their profile are probably not the same group of people who chose humble style choices, stuffed animals or toaster avatars.

To me the statement made by the OP was badly worded and akin to one of those "Don't talk to me unless you are 100% mesh" statements. I understand now that she didn't mean it that way, but this is a red flag to me. Those statements offend me.

My partner was system body until last year, he is still system head, and the sweetest person on the planet. A lot of my friends are system heads.

My favouritest sport in SL in newb hunting, and it's something I have done for a decade. I search out a newb without payment info, one who has a decent personality and I lift them up in looks and in skills. I just ask that one day when they have a sucsefful business they do the same thing at least once. This is one of my topmost favoutite past time.

These statements saying "go away unless you are mesh" get my goat, and they always will. My response will always be the same "stop being a shallow arse, you just show up your own faults"

 

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40 minutes ago, IvyLarae said:

(1) You're free to believe what you want there, but I was just simply stating ( however poorly stated it may have been, late night posting really should be illegal at this point lol) Something I had heard people say, seen in profiles, and personally agreed with. I didn't however say that at all in my original post, I just meant that in general. I ask you to please refrain from putting words in my mouth because that gets absolutely nothing done.
(2) I'm not trying to be nit picky, but you contradicted yourself with this very statement. You said that no side is right or wrong, but then said if I wanted to "continue placing a huge amount of significance on appearance, go on with your bad self and do it...but don't get offended when I suggest its not my method, or when I suggest mine works better for me, or that I suggest that its shallow" basically you said what I was doing was wrong, when you started out saying neither side was

 

Nope, not what I said at all. Show me where I said it's wrong? It's wrong for me, sure, but I never said it's wrong for everyone, I said it's shallow.  It's entirely likely you took the word shallow as me saying it's wrong. I didn't, and those two words aren't interchangeable, lol. Even nice, wonderful, amazing people have their shallow moments too :) 

People should be, feel, free to place whatever amount of significance as they want on appearance, or none at all. They should also know that not everyone is going to agree with them. My position is that neither person can necessarily say their option is universally right, because it's not. What is right for you may not be right for me, and vice versa. 

My apologies if you think I was putting words in your mouth, i was merely going on the typed words on the page. Your initial post did actually say "They are the first thing someone notices about you and whether you want to admit it or not, it is the very thing that will make people wonder if they want to open your profile and read it or not". So, those are the words I went on.  I know you've since said it was simply poor wording, happens to all of us..but those are still the words I was referring to with that statement. 

 

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40 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

If i promise not to wear that, are we good?

 

Absolutely and always, one should evaluate one's response to something, indeed anything, that is communicated by others, whether it's through appearance, or language, or behavior. Am I being fair? Is this really sufficient evidence to judge? What other things about the person should I know? How much of my reaction is about me, rather than about them?

So yes, we agree Tari.

There's a certain kind/shape of spike heeled boot very popular in SL (and only in SL: if you wore these in RL, you'd be unable to walk every again) that I absolutely despise. I have recently been able to school myself to actually acknowledge the existence of those who wear them.

It's been uphill all the way.

*hugs*, Tari. I'd be thrilled to not be judged upon my appearance by someone so discerning as you. If that makes any sense.

We are absolutely good, lol. 

 

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8 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

If the visual, and the virtual embodiment of those with whom you are speaking, didn't matter at all, you wouldn't be here at all.

Yes I would. I got into SL to create things. At the time I had no intention of talking with anyone. I avoided contact (and still do for the most part). SL is a creation platform to me.

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23 minutes ago, Parhelion Palou said:

Yes I would. I got into SL to create things. At the time I had no intention of talking with anyone. I avoided contact (and still do for the most part). SL is a creation platform to me.

Oh sure, Par. I don't doubt it. And I'm sure there are many others who share your approach; were we to canvass widely enough, there'd be lots of anecdotal instances of exceptions to what I've certainly implied is "the rule."

Do you see yourself as more than an exception in this regard? Do you think that your own approach invalidates my general point?

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10 hours ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

And the ones dropping their Flickr links into group chat, showing them wearing whatever from the store, is no better.  The store personnel can give out Flickr links if they desire, but I don't care about every group member's picture of them wearing the stuff.  IMO, that is nothing more than said group members trying to get attention.

^^THIS!^^ Irritates me to no end when a group messages pops up and it's nothing but a freakin' link to their flickr and everyone feels obligated to say "Oh! Great look, so and so!" and in my mind I'm thinking, "What were you thinking when YOU put this together????" /rant :-)

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7 minutes ago, anniepany said:

"What were you thinking when YOU put this together????"

They were thinking if I post this in a group and half the people click it, people will see all my views and think I have a huge following 🙄  I never click them 

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7 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Oh sure, Par. I don't doubt it. And I'm sure there are many others who share your approach; were we to canvass widely enough, there'd be lots of anecdotal instances of exceptions to what I've certainly implied is "the rule."

Do you see yourself as more than an exception in this regard? Do you think that your own approach invalidates my general point?

I was pointing out that there are exceptions to what sounded to me like an absolute rule.

If all of SL was canvassed we might find that over half of the residents don't care about the visual appearance of avatars, making your point invalid (or at least not general). There's no way to canvas SL, and even LL has no clue what all the uses for SL are. Therefore I can't say, but I doubt the survey would invalidate your point.

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22 minutes ago, Cindy Evanier said:

They were thinking if I post this in a group and half the people click it, people will see all my views and think I have a huge following 🙄  I never click them 

I almost never click.  I don't want to reward that behavior with another view.

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25 minutes ago, Cindy Evanier said:

They were thinking if I post this in a group and half the people click it, people will see all my views and think I have a huge following 🙄  I never click them 

Agreed, but i'm always curious and that always gets the best of me LOL, so I click and then groan at either the picture, me for clicking or both :-)

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5 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

I almost never click.  I don't want to reward that behavior with another view.

I gotta learn restraint LOL

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32 minutes ago, Parhelion Palou said:

I was pointing out that there are exceptions to what sounded to me like an absolute rule.

If all of SL was canvassed we might find that over half of the residents don't care about the visual appearance of avatars, making your point invalid (or at least not general). There's no way to canvas SL, and even LL has no clue what all the uses for SL are. Therefore I can't say, but I doubt the survey would invalidate your point.

Well, fair enough. I take it as read that death is the only absolute rule that applies to human experience and behavior. (Taxes used to count, but nowadays, if you're wealthy enough, you can apparently get out of paying those.)

I'm always a bit suspicious of the way in which we apply and interpret raw quantitative data anyway: I think it too often erases nuance and complexity. But I suppose if one were looking for evidence that was at least suggestive, you could look to the Marketplace, and note how much of the activity there revolves around avatar appearance.

And, although (again) I don't for a minute doubt you when you say that you aren't here for social interactions, and don't care that much about your appearance, you do seem to have a rather nice-looking avatar, and decided, for whatever reason, to picture it here. There was presumably a reason for you to do that, even if it didn't require a great deal of effort.

I'm emphatically not accusing you of hypocrisy or falsehood, but I think it does suggest that my generalization operates on a number of levels, and not just with regard to people going to clubs or social venues.

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2 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

And, although (again) I don't for a minute doubt you when you say that you aren't here for social interactions, and don't care that much about your appearance, you do seem to have a rather nice-looking avatar, and decided, for whatever reason, to picture it here. There was presumably a reason for you to do that, even if it didn't require a great deal of effort.

...pours gas on the fire by noting that her li'l devil avatar was a gift from... Par.

Though I don't think he put a great deal of effort into getting that avatar for me (he has the boy version), he certainly cared enough to do so.

Curiously enough, my favorite outfit for my human Maddy avatar was a gift from... Dillon, who also cared enough to gift something I truly like.

Can I offer myself up as an example of people caring more about how I look than I do, which is perversely akin to Ivy's contention in the OP?

Here's another version of Void (along with the ever adorable Marianne McCann)...

1343300980_MaddypinchesVoid.thumb.jpg.f8f3d562e37e1f77aa3872388ab5e4df.jpg

I find both of Void's avatars to be fully consistent with who I knew her to be. A few weeks ago, you mentioned that my avatar seemed perfectly suited to me. I think you meant my Maddy avatar, but I responded as if you'd meant my li'l devil avatar. I think you'd agree that both are consistent with the me you know.  In a world where change is so very easy to effect, one thing I value in the people I meet is consistency. The least I can do is offer it in return.

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