Huge Packaging Annoyances

[Prokofy Neva]

Pre-warning: if you always post contrary to whatever I'm posting just out of spleen, save it for another post, there will be other more important ones where you can exercise your talents. And if you don't experience any issues with packaging for whatever reasons, move along to a more interesting post. 

This post is about seeing how many others experience this annoyance and how they address it. I know it's a lot, because not only do I hear it from my tenants, I hear it from merchants themselves, because they themselves are shoppers, too.

The packaging in general in SL has become absolutely insane, wasteful, and possibly even a load on the servers. Because of the inordinate fear that newbies would end up with boxes on their head by dragging not contents within a box but the box itself (and experiencing mortal embarrassment), this packaging insanity has grown worse. I think in fact it's worse for newbies, too.

When you purchase a product now, it often has WEAR ME as the hovering text or printed instructions right on it -- it wants you to drag the box on yourself contrary to the old days.

That's because it has animations that will make you either carry a bag or hold a bunch of stacked boxes (I find this particularly stupid but someone may feel it is clever).

Worse, the box then starts automatically unpacking. Since it won't come into inventory without your consent, you have to click "yes" to accept it. But you don't have to click to start the unpacking process.

Things may go wrong if you are on a laggy sim or TP away too early (often the vendor will even tell you to do that). But worse, if you bat the incoming unpacking away, because you want to drag the contents into your inventory *into a folder, to sort it right away*, you may lose the product completely, even if it is copyable. THAT is what I find super annoying.

Here's the problem: if it is a gatcha, you expect that it is a single copy, and that you better get that unpacking and click "yes" and not "no" or you will lose it -- it's not in trash, because you never received it, it's "nowhere." You have an expectation, and you meet it.

But if you expect that a purchased item that is copyable and not on transfer will "still be in the box," you MIGHT be wrong but MIGHT NOT. THAT is the problem. There is no consistency.

Some items say "All my contents are in your inventory" as the forcibly unpack. But many of them really still retain a copy in that box as you have proven many times. So you THINK you can safely say "no" to the forced unpacking, and still drag into a folder WHICH IS PREFERABLE. The only way to deal with monster inventories is to try to always diligently sort immediately after unpacking. Packing annoyances defeat that purpose.

But some of them -- even if copyable! -- are NOT really in the box any more. Or the box is on "no modify" so you can' open it. Then you've just lost that content, and you are forced back to the merchant -- who may or may not have an automatic redelivery terminal.

Recently when I posted about this annoyance on Twitter, after sending a request to get a copy issued because of loss of a single-copy item over this issue (it wasn't a gatcha so I didn't realize it was single-copy), the CSR complained that I publicized it before waiting for their response. But it's not about their company. They all do this.

Because we now have virtually a monopoly vendor situation, and a terrible chokepoint of failure -- as we saw when indeed it did fail on the busiest shopping day of the year, Black Friday, and fail for a day.

Yet there are still enough other variations to keep giving you nasty surprises where even a copyable item.

What is the solution? Cease automatic unpacking upon rezzing. It's not a convenience. It can lead to loss. It defeats efforts to organize inventory. It does not really help newbies. You can still even have the silly anims of carrying bags or boxes, but make unpack happen ONLY when the avatar clicks on it. Further, if it is a copyable item, do not remove that final copy from the original packaging, there is no need to do this.

 

[Klytyna]

1 hour ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Pre-warning: if you always post contrary to whatever I'm posting just out of spleen

Actually, it's not spleen, it's because 99% of what you write is utter rubbish...

This thread is no exception.

You did this whole "wear to unpack shopping must be abolished because, false reason: it wastes resources, REAL REASON: people who can unpack without land will be less likely to rent my parcels" before, last year. 

Your arguments were false and self centered then, and nothing has changed.

1 hour ago, Prokofy Neva said:

This post is about seeing how many others experience this annoyance and how they address it. I know it's a lot, because not only do I hear it from my tenants, I hear it from merchants themselves, because they themselves are shoppers, too.

 So, you present "anecdotal" evidence from "a lot of people" that merchants (who create wear-to-unpack items) hate wearing stuff to unpack. I seriously doubt that, I really do.

1 hour ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Worse, the box then starts automatically unpacking. Since it won't come into inventory without your consent, you have to click "yes" to accept it. But you don't have to click to start the unpacking process.

Some TPV's actually allow auto-accepting of inventory offers... But you wouldn't know that of course.

1 hour ago, Prokofy Neva said:

But some of them -- even if copyable! -- are NOT really in the box any more. Or the box is on "no modify" so you can' open it.

More of your "14 years in SL and you STILL don't know how to use a viewer" rubbish.

You CAN open a no-mod box, and drag a COPY of the copyable contents to inventory, 

1 hour ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Further, if it is a copyable item, do not remove that final copy from the original packaging, there is no need to do this.

Generally, they don't, seems you didn't pay attention to how copying a copyable item works.

1 hour ago, Prokofy Neva said:

What is the solution? Cease automatic unpacking upon rezzing. It's not a convenience.

Yes it is, I can unpack my new purchase anywhere, and use it right away, no mess, no fuss, no prim litter left on the ground. Easy.

1 hour ago, Prokofy Neva said:

It defeats efforts to organize inventory.

Rez a Fossil Shopper Box on the ground, right click and choose open, click the "copy contents to inventory" button...

It makes a folder in your inv with the name of the Box object, you can than drag that folder into whatever folder tree sorting system you want.

Or...

Wear anew auto-unpack box, it creates a folder in your inv with the name of t he box object, you can drag that folder into whatever folder tree sorting system you want.

So as you can see, all that changes is the loss of the need to find some clueless Madlander Slumlord fossil and rent a micro-parcel from them to use as a rez zone...

1 hour ago, Prokofy Neva said:

It does not really help newbies.

And most importantly it doesn't convince newbies to rent a micro-parcel on which to unpack their 10 year old plywood cube packages, from some Madlands Slumlords, right?

 

[Prokofy Neva]

7 minutes ago, Klytyna said:

Actually, it's not spleen, it's because 99% of what you write is utter rubbish...

This thread is no exception.

You did this whole "wear to unpack shopping must be abolished because, false reason: it wastes resources, REAL REASON: people who can unpack without land will be less likely to rent my parcels" before, last year. 

Your arguments were false and self centered then, and nothing has changed.

 So, you present "anecdotal" evidence from "a lot of people" that merchants (who create wear-to-unpack items) hate wearing stuff to unpack. I seriously doubt that, I really do.

Some TPV's actually allow auto-accepting of inventory offers... But you wouldn't know that of course.

More of your "14 years in SL and you STILL don't know how to use a viewer" rubbish.

You CAN open a no-mod box, and drag a COPY of the copyable contents to inventory, 

Generally, they don't, seems you didn't pay attention to how copying a copyable item works.

Yes it is, I can unpack my new purchase anywhere, and use it right away, no mess, no fuss, no prim litter left on the ground. Easy.

Rez a Fossil Shopper Box on the ground, right click and choose open, click the "copy contents to inventory" button...

It makes a folder in your inv with the name of the Box object, you can than drag that folder into whatever folder tree sorting system you want.

Or...

Wear anew auto-unpack box, it creates a folder in your inv with the name of t he box object, you can drag that folder into whatever folder tree sorting system you want.

So as you can see, all that changes is the loss of the need to find some clueless Madlander Slumlord fossil and rent a micro-parcel from them to use as a rez zone...

And most importantly it doesn't convince newbies to rent a micro-parcel on which to unpack their 10 year old plywood cube packages, from some Madlands Slumlords, right?

 

It has nothing to do with "renting my land" because people don't need to "rent my land" to unpack -- many stores allow enough time before autoreturn where you can unpack in the stores; there are infohubs; there are clubs; people go to friends' houses. "My land" is irrelevant to this story.

BTW, I maintained more than 100,000 m at more than 50 sites where people can join the group for a one-time fee of $5 and rez there. They don't have to pay rent.

And I'll go you one better -- my groups are open, and most of the rentals have some kinds of commons space, and I often find people's shopping bags or boxes because they come to these open and free lands on what you consider "Madlands" to hang out and rez their stuff. Imagine that. Paying nothing. Maybe a tip sometimes. But usually not even that. So your hysteria is wildly misplaced.

You CAN open a no-mod box, and drag a COPY of the copyable contents to inventory, "

Yes, that's obvious. But not if there isn't a copy of anything left in the box any more. Which you would have no reason to save because you can't put anything back in it.

No, you can't sort inventory easily when it is already in inventory, not if you have numerous separate folders, i.e. chairs, desks, food, etc. You want to be able to do this *from the package* which is the most rational and intuitive way.

You don't want to struggle to drag it upward through numerous files, always risking slipping and dropping it. You don't want to do a search and try to snag both the new item and something in the folder you want to put it in.

You want to just drag it from the box to start with, the end.

 

[ellestones]

i agree about the auto-unpack. Is a pain when you rez something and it automatically dumps its contents on you

i much prefer when the boxed package says: Touch Me to Unpack

i prefer it because when I go to events, hunts, shopping, etc I can end up with quite a few boxes. I like to rez them, look at the packaging image on the box and then decide whether to unpack

when I don't get to decide this then I can end up with multiple folders of the same stuff, which I then tend to accept as when working thru a pile of boxes I can't remember immediately which boxes have already been unpacked

is the same when I am looking thru my legacy boxes folder of which I have many. Rez the box, look at the packaging then decide to unpack or not

[Callum Meriman]

I don't mind unpack huds, unpack boxes less so (that show-off animation messes up my posestand).

Yes, there are sometimes failures, but they are rare and easily fixed with a polite message to the creator.

My real hate is the hud inside a box. Even more if it then delivers seperate boxes for each colour.

Boxes to rez? No thanks. Especially with mesh floors being the way they are, I don't want those boxes to end up eaten by the region.

 

[Gabriele Graves]

I prefer it this way and wish it was universally available.  If a box says "XXXX (wear me)" then I right click the box in my inventory and "Add" it to the HUD (which is nicely hidden), then I get my stuff immediately in a folder (this works without a prompt because I have auto-accept items turned on).  This also enables me to open these items more easily in places where I don't have rez rights.  Much more convenient.

Edited November 27, 2018 by Gabriele Graves
corrected tense

[Chaser Zaks]

I really do dislike the boxes that REQUIRE you to wear them to unpack(Even worse when they llDie(), preventing you from manually unpacking!). I don't want to accidentally detach my right hand, or play a silly animation that is unneeded. Sure in some situations it is nice to be able to wear the object to unpack it such as locations where you cannot rez stuff, but I don't want it to be a requirement.

Automated unpacking I am rather eh about. I'd much rather rez something and have the choice to have it unpack all the things into a folder for me, or for me to unpack a single part out of it, but I can go either way with it. However having a script to unpack stuff when you click it is really nice, as long as it isn't required to wear it to unpack.

Edited November 27, 2018 by Chaser Zaks

[Gabriele Graves]

1 minute ago, Chaser Zaks said:

I really do dislike the boxes that REQUIRE you to wear them to unpack(Even worse when they llDie(), preventing you from manually unpacking!). I don't want to accidentally detach my right hand, or play a silly animation that is unneeded. Sure in some situations it is nice to be able to wear the object to unpack it such as locations where you cannot rez stuff, but I don't want it to be a requirement.

Automated unpacking I am rather eh about. I'd much rather rez something and have the choice to have it unpack all the things into a folder for me, or for me to unpack a single part out of it, but I can go either way with it.

I agree with the sentiment that nobody should be messing with anyone's ability to rez and open a box the traditional way.  The way I prefer should just be optional.

[Garnet Psaltery]

For the sorting-in-inventory task I keep two inventory windows open, and drag the new item(s) from the Recent tab on one to the folder of my choice on the other.  No need to drag up or down through folders, which is hazardous, indeed.

[Klytyna]

1 minute ago, Garnet Psaltery said:

For the sorting-in-inventory task I keep two inventory windows open, and drag the new item(s) from the Recent tab on one to the folder of my choice on the other.  No need to drag up or down through folders, which is hazardous, indeed.

Ah but you probably use one of those "despicable exploit hacker techno-commie TPV's", rather than worshipfully using the OFFICIAL SL Inferiority Viewer, as Philip the Great intended!

Worse, you probably have techno-commie skills such as actually knowing HOW to use your viewer.

You probably NEVER dumped 15,000 gacha items in the root prim of your inworld HQ by mistake right? Or then blamed the apparent "loss" on an LL organised Techno-Commie conspiracy to destroy Slumlords...

 

[Fionalein]

36 minutes ago, Callum Meriman said:

Boxes to rez? No thanks. Especially with mesh floors being the way they are, I don't want those boxes to end up eaten by the region.

Always prefered to advertising shopping bags - Come on, really? Why does it have to scream your shop's name across the sim? Or thank me for shopping in local please use llOwnerSay() instead ...

Edited November 27, 2018 by Fionalein

[Selene Gregoire]

[chibiusa Ling]

4 hours ago, Klytyna said:

Ah but you probably use one of those "despicable exploit hacker techno-commie TPV's", rather than worshipfully using the OFFICIAL SL Inferiority Viewer, as Philip the Great intended!

I do actually find the official SL viewer to be the fastest and most stable, especially when I'm on my macbook and not my gaming pc. But, I also find it a hassle to use so 99.9% of the time my viewer choices are Firestorm and Alchemy. The official viewer seems to render better and give me less visual lag in regions firestorm wants to up and die. Alchemy is the closest I have found to the official viewers stability. However alchemy still retains the stupid toast chat system. However, if they fixed the following issues I would commit to the official SL viewer full time :

1. Make the overall UI feel more intuitive to use than its current state where, even though we know where most things are, everything feels like a serious chore to do.

2. Remove the ridiculous pop out chat box moveable chat bar magic toast super duper wonder "we tried to fix what isn't broken with something worse" system. And replace it with the chat style system they had in V1.0. Simple, works, effective...etc..

3. Stop every single message sent in a group from spamming down the side of the screen and allow us other ways to disable group chat instead of "flash button" which is not all that noticeable or turning ALL chat from ALL groups off which sorta defeats the purpose.

4. Allow us to truly unlock the camera instead of remove constraints only unlocking it to 100m or something silly away from the avatar, makes it a pain to sit your avatar somewhere in a sim and cam over to build in another part.

5. Greater draw distance values. I did try upping it to 4096 in the settings files as per the advice of a TPV developer but for some reason it didn't work.

6. Sort out the script window and its spacing issues. Small concern I know but as a coder it gets hella annoying after a while.

7. Smaller irks, purely because I'm used to them in other TPV's such as auto show inventory when you accept an item at the location of the item, hide look at without needing to go into the settings and XML files of the viewer

But I doubt that will ever happen so Alchemy/Firestorm it is!

[Marianne Little]

If I should choose between different ways of receiving goods, I think I prefer that who attach to screen so only I can see it, and where I have to click it to unpack.

I agree that the ones who auto-open can come too quick on me and sometimes collide with another blue window.

I really dislike those who add another step, it comes with the "join my group" and then "do you wish to unpack" before the unpacking itself. Makes my fingers itch to slap someone.

[Tamara Artis]

When seeing posts like this, I am reminded how hard it is to set things in a way that it is okay for the majority of users.

The OP explained the problem and asked:

10 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

What is the solution?

One solution I could suggest is: don't expect certain behavior. Instead, read and follow.

It makes sense that merchants will use different unpacking methods if they are available on the market. If we listen to your wishes, some other customer might start thread like this and complain that we didn't meet their expectations. And I would give the same reply. So basically there is always someone not happy. What is the solution you suggest for this?

I pack my products in HUDs. They attach to your screen and there are letters that say "click to unpack". It does not automatically unpack. Also, I try to create a special version of the vendor photo that goes on this HUD - low res which loads fast so that people who need to check what's inside the package don't wait for ages for the photo to load.

If there is something specific that could be done better and improve user experience please let me know. The problem you named is more about preferences and product not meeting your specific expectations. 

[Ethan Paslong]

3 hours ago, chibiusa Ling said:

5. Greater draw distance values.

ohhh how comes SL is soooo lagggyyyyyy....

 

coughs... no idea....

[Louise Fyrewik]

3 hours ago, chibiusa Ling said:

5. Greater draw distance values. I did try upping it to 4096 in the settings files as per the advice of a TPV developer but for some reason it didn't work.

You are aware that the draw distance is in meters, right? So you want to be able to see things up to 16 sims away? In your peripheral vision that means that your viewer will have to load about 214 sims at the same time. I don't know about your computer, but mine would have serious issues with that.

[Cindy Evanier]

Every time I see this thread, I see Huge Package Annoyance... and mental image is not good

[Fionalein]

7 minutes ago, Cindy Evanier said:

Every time I see this thread, I see Huge Package Annoyance... and mental image is not good

You see mental images of typical male mesh bodies?

Edited November 27, 2018 by Fionalein

[Cindy Evanier]

Just now, Fionalein said:

You see mental images of typical male mesh bodies?

Not always mesh, but often free

[Ethan Paslong]

8 minutes ago, Cindy Evanier said:

Every time I see this thread, I see Huge Package Annoyance... and mental image is not good

[Love Zhaoying]

12 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

And if you don't experience any issues with packaging for whatever reasons, move along to a more interesting post.

..so you only want to hear from people who agree with you and have the same experience as you? Wow.

[Love Zhaoying]

12 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

When you purchase a product now, it often has WEAR ME as the hovering text or printed instructions right on it -- it wants you to drag the box on yourself contrary to the old days.

No, user can select “add to current outfit”.

[Love Zhaoying]

10 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

It has nothing to do with "renting my land" because people don't need to "rent my land" to unpack -- many stores allow enough time before autoreturn where you can unpack in the stores; there are infohubs; there are clubs; people go to friends' houses. "My land" is irrelevant to this story.

BTW, I maintained more than 100,000 m at more than 50 sites where people can join the group for a one-time fee of $5 and rez there. They don't have to pay rent.

And I'll go you one better -- my groups are open, and most of the rentals have some kinds of commons space, and I often find people's shopping bags or boxes because they come to these open and free lands on what you consider "Madlands" to hang out and rez their stuff. Imagine that. Paying nothing. Maybe a tip sometimes. But usually not even that. So your hysteria is wildly misplaced.

You CAN open a no-mod box, and drag a COPY of the copyable contents to inventory, "

Yes, that's obvious. But not if there isn't a copy of anything left in the box any more. Which you would have no reason to save because you can't put anything back in it.

No, you can't sort inventory easily when it is already in inventory, not if you have numerous separate folders, i.e. chairs, desks, food, etc. You want to be able to do this *from the package* which is the most rational and intuitive way.

You don't want to struggle to drag it upward through numerous files, always risking slipping and dropping it. You don't want to do a search and try to snag both the new item and something in the folder you want to put it in.

You want to just drag it from the box to start with, the end.

 

What I don’t understand is, why you are resistant to change. When I first experienced the “relatively new” way of dealing with packaging, aka “wear me”, I was annoyed too. But I got over it, because it is better.

[Fionalein]

I also cannot see the problem. If it says "wear me" you can still rezz it unless it is no copy ( in which case it might be cursed with a "no rez" script and poof) rez and unpack old school style... works pretty much the same way it always did - even on HUDs - I do that all the time.

Edited November 27, 2018 by Fionalein