Reasons not to start a "Happy Thanksgiving" thread

[Luna Bliss]

1 minute ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

You pretty much always interpret anything that Phorumities says in some sort of negative way -- totally because of you bias towards him.  I'm pretty sure he could post something totally in agreement with your belief system and you'd still find something wrong with it.

Phorumities has a long history here, in this incarnation and another. Perhaps yet another. I've never taken issue with EVERYthing he's said. But I will take issue with his white supremacist views.

[LittleMe Jewell]

4 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Why even bring this point up? Of course it's wise not to assume anybody is anything.

However with this issue of being sensitive to others when wishing them a 'happy thanksgiving, I'm mainly referring to  people in one's personal life they've known for awhile..not strangers...so one would most likely know if they were Native.

Your original statement did not imply or state that you were referring to only those people that we know for a fact are Native American.  Even then, they do not all see things the same way and I have no way of knowing this in advance.   Granted, if I knew that someone was Native American and did not know their views, I probably would not wish them directly a Happy Thanksgiving.  However, if I was giving a general wish out to all folks, or a group of people in my immediate vicinity, even if I knew there was a Native American in the bunch, I would still give the group a Happy Thanksgiving.

[Luna Bliss]

1 minute ago, Selene Gregoire said:

You are 100% correct.

You need to get over your love of ganging up on people. I played the scapegoat there, but I won't do it here.

[Luna Bliss]

4 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Oh good lord.

Phorumities begins a thread that more or less dares someone to be "offended."

And Luna conveniently obliges.

Do the two of you plan this stuff in advance?

Well Scylla, I really was gonna let it slide (you can see from my earlier posts on the thread), but when I started to see the balance tip in favor of us white folk and our determination to have our gdamm holiday, well......thar she blows...:)

[Luna Bliss]

3 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

 Granted, if I knew that someone was Native American and did not know their views, I probably would not wish them directly a Happy Thanksgiving. 

Good, there is hope for you ;0

[Selene Gregoire]

Just now, Luna Bliss said:

You need to get over your love of ganging up on people. I played the scapegoat there, but I won't do it here.

So you are still rewriting history. Not surprising. You were never a scapegoat. You assumed the role in an attempt to throw blame on others rather than taking responsibility for yourself,  your words and your untruths.

[LittleMe Jewell]

5 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Phorumities has a long history here, in this incarnation and another. Perhaps yet another. I've never taken issue with EVERYthing he's said. But I will take issue with his white supremacist views.

Quite a few people here have a history of posting inflammatory stuff, but I still don't automatically assume that just about everything they post is a slap in the face.  You interpreted the post as saying "anyone who doesn't agree with me is stupid" - whereas, I wouldn't assume such a comment from anyone unless they had actually said those EXACT words in the past.

As to you capitalizing EVERYthing -- re-read my comment.  I said "pretty much always" -- the "pretty much" is the qualifier that negates if from meaning "EVERYthing".

 

I'm sure the Native Americans are very appreciative of you taking offense for them in this.   

 

[Luna Bliss]

1 minute ago, Selene Gregoire said:

5 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

You need to get over your love of ganging up on people. I played the scapegoat there, but I won't do it here.

So you are still rewriting history. Not surprising. You were never a scapegoat. You assumed the role in an attempt to throw blame on others rather than taking responsibility for yourself,  your words and your untruths.

If I believe something is true I'm not going to say it's not true just to get along with a person or a group.

I'm stubborn that way.

Luna Bliss does not flounce.

[Luna Bliss]

2 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

I'm sure the Native Americans are very appreciative of you taking offense for them in this.   

My son-in-law is, yes. And one day maybe my grandson too. Thanks for noticing

[Scylla Rhiadra]

Just now, Luna Bliss said:

Well Scylla, I really was gonna let it slide (you can see from my earlier posts on the thread), but when I started to see the balance tip in favor of us white folk and our determination to have our gdamm holiday, well......thar she blows...:)

You know, an awful lot of the slightly hysterical moaning about "political correctness" that comes from the right is built upon fabricating narratives that imagine left wing outrage where, mostly, there just isn't. The argument that "it's time to stop the War on Christmas" is an excellent example.

There probably aren't too many people here who associate with more radical progressives and left-wingers than I do. I work alongside honest-to-god, card-carrying Marxists, for god's sake, and I know NO one who wants to "ban" Christmas, or Thanksgiving, or Easter, or Remembrance Day, or any of those. They may not observe them themselves, but that's hardly a "war."

So, when you respond to Phorumities, what you are doing is playing along with the script: you're providing a convenient example of exactly what they think is, apparently, happening EVERYWHERE. And it's not.

I don't think, in general, that your own views, as you've stated them here, are particularly unreasonable. If you say something that someone tells you they find offensive, sure, apologize and move along. Whatever.

But why turn what should be simple courtesy, consideration, and common sense into a conflagration?

Don't. Play. The Game.

Walk away, Luna.

[Luna Bliss]

3 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Quite a few people here have a history of posting inflammatory stuff, but I still don't automatically assume that just about everything they post is a slap in the face.  You interpreted the post as saying "anyone who doesn't agree with me is stupid" - whereas, I wouldn't assume such a comment from anyone unless they had actually said those EXACT words in the past.

I guess you don't remember all the posts where Phorumities slammed political correctness? (which is really what his initial post was, a list of people who want political correctness in one way or another).  Really, you need to be THAT literal, needing to see the word "stupid"  to comprehend that's what he meant?

btw...'political correctness' is a good thing in my eyes, teaching insensitive people how to behave in a civil manner.

[Selene Gregoire]

2 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

If I believe something is true I'm not going to say it's not true just to get along with a person or a group.

I'm stubborn that way.

Luna Bliss does not flounce.

 

1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said:

My son-in-law is, yes. And one day maybe my grandson too. Thanks for noticing

 

Complete and utter bull hockey.

[Luna Bliss]

3 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

13 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Well Scylla, I really was gonna let it slide (you can see from my earlier posts on the thread), but when I started to see the balance tip in favor of us white folk and our determination to have our gdamm holiday, well......thar she blows...:)

You know, an awful lot of the slightly hysterical moaning about "political correctness" that comes from the right is built upon fabricating narratives that imagine left wing outrage where, mostly, there just isn't. The argument that "it's time to stop the War on Christmas" is an excellent example.

There probably aren't too many people here who associate with more radical progressives and left-wingers than I do. I work alongside honest-to-god, card-carrying Marxists, for god's sake, and I know NO one who wants to "ban" Christmas, or Thanksgiving, or Easter, or Remembrance Day, or any of those. They may not observe them themselves, but that's hardly a "war."

So, when you respond to Phorumities, what you are doing is playing along with the script: you're providing a convenient example of exactly what they think is, apparently, happening EVERYWHERE. And it's not.

I don't think, in general, that your own views, as you've stated them here, are particularly unreasonable. If you say something that someone tells you they find offensive, sure, apologize and move along. Whatever.

But why turn what should be simple courtesy, consideration, and common sense into a conflagration?

Don't. Play. The Game.

Walk away, Luna.

You are probably right Skylla...I should just ignore him. And I was sooo glad when he said he would only stick to SL topics. Yet here he snuck in his white supremacist views in a rather backhanded way.

I feel like I need to defend SL and the forum against this white supremacist lurking among us!  lol  I know this is silly. I'm an oldest child with Social Work training. Maybe there's no hope for me. But I'll try.

[LittleMe Jewell]

7 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

when you respond to Phorumities, what you are doing is playing along with the script: you're providing a convenient example of exactly what they think is, apparently, happening EVERYWHERE. And it's not.

This ^^ - 100% this.

[LittleMe Jewell]

6 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I guess you don't remember all the posts where Phorumities slammed political correctness? (which is really what his initial post was, a list of people who want political correctness in one way or another).  Really, you need to be THAT literal, needing to see the word "stupid"  to comprehend that's what he meant?

btw...'political correctness' is a good thing in my eyes, teaching insensitive people how to behave in a civil manner.

Political Correctness, much of the time, is simply someone trying to control the narrative and actions of others and has been taken way too far -- IMO.  Yes, we should be sensitive to others, but I should not have to apologize for every tiny comment that offends someone.  Because damn near anything that anyone says will be offensive to someone else - that is just how people and feelings work.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

9 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I feel like I need to defend SL and the forum against this white supremacist lurking among us!  lol  I know this is silly.

I don't think it, or we, need defending, though. It's not as though white supremacy is running amok here.

There's a reason, too, why we have taken to referring to those who support the aims of indigenous peoples as "allies." The term implies that we are here to help: we support them in their efforts for self-determination and empowerment. And the key phrase here is self-determination and empowerment: it comes from them, because they are the only ones who have the perspective necessary to know what constitutes an appropriately supportive response.

So, we need to not be White Saviours. History has already produced waaaaay too much of that. Let those who know what matters for them determine how we can help.

Edited November 23, 2018 by Scylla Rhiadra

[LittleMe Jewell]

4 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

 I feel like I need to defend SL and the forum against this white supremacist lurking among us!  lol  I know this is silly. I'm an oldest child with Social Work training. Maybe there's no hope for me. But I'll try.

While many of Phorumities statements are extremely far-right and sometimes/often 'white supremacist', I saw the OP as more of a sarcastic statement again Political Correctness in general.

That is possibly the difference between someone who tends to see the middle more and doesn't automatically make assumptions about those that I know do not view the world as I do, versus those that are very far left or right and thus pretty much always see the other side as evil.

[Luna Bliss]

3 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Political Correctness, much of the time, is simply someone trying to control the narrative and actions of others and has been taken way too far -- IMO.  Yes, we should be sensitive to others, but I should not have to apologize for every tiny comment that offends someone.  Because damn near anything that anyone says will be offensive to someone else - that is just how people and feelings work.

It can go too far, yes.

But it can also be used by the far-right to diminish valid concerns when others are espousing civil rights.

It's difficult to get a feel for the entire world as to the degree it has gone too far, and reading blogs one can find much distortion.

Personally, I base my observations more on the real world and not forums and blogs.

[Luna Bliss]

5 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

So, we need to not be White Saviours. History has already produced waaaaay too much of that. Let those who know what matters for them determine how we can help.

My son-in-law didn't feel I was doing anything offensive by pointing out the feelings some Natives have about Thanksgiving.

I don't just defend people of color though, I like to defend 'the little guy'. Imbalances of power.

Really, there might not be any hope for me  But, perhaps what is needed is a change of method -- I'm too blunt and confrontational at times. I prefer directness and honesty but this is not always the best style.

[Jagix Linden]

Like a bad Thanksgiving dinner, this has devolved into a bitter dispute.

But unlike that, I'm locking the thread.

Wouldn't it be nice to have me around for those family squabbles?