Content theft

[SarahBeths]

Hello,

I am sorry to post here but I didn't know where to ask this. 

I know Linden Labs has a policy about content theft, but I was wondering if they can do anything for someone that copies every written content word for word and also busines process, and basically creates their copycat business. Is there a policy for that, and what could I do to stop them? I added the copyright mention to everything I wrote and set.

While I don't want to cause drama, I also don't want them to run their copycat business freely, as they're stealing me word for word.

I'm not talking about mesh stealing, but process and notecard and name stealing here, like literally everything is copy pasted. 

I also filled in a ticket and asked if I could take a DMCA action, but it was unclear on if I was right to or not. 

Thanks for your answers. 

[Callum Meriman]

Normally copyright - and thus DMCA - extends to written words as well. 

In the end, DMCA claims are something you need to get proper legal advice on.

[Resi Pfeffer]

13 hours ago, SarahBeths said:

I'm not talking about mesh stealing, but process and notecard and name stealing here, like literally everything is copy pasted. 

May i ask, what your business is about?

[Theresa Tennyson]

16 hours ago, SarahBeths said:

Hello,

I am sorry to post here but I didn't know where to ask this. 

I know Linden Labs has a policy about content theft, but I was wondering if they can do anything for someone that copies every written content word for word and also busines process, and basically creates their copycat business. Is there a policy for that, and what could I do to stop them? I added the copyright mention to everything I wrote and set.

While I don't want to cause drama, I also don't want them to run their copycat business freely, as they're stealing me word for word.

I'm not talking about mesh stealing, but process and notecard and name stealing here, like literally everything is copy pasted. 

I also filled in a ticket and asked if I could take a DMCA action, but it was unclear on if I was right to or not. 

Thanks for your answers. 

An exact copy of written text or a graphic logo - yes; it's a copyright violation.

Business name - maybe, or yes if its a registered trademark.

Business process - no, unless it's patented.

[SarahBeths]

2 hours ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

An exact copy of written text or a graphic logo - yes; it's a copyright violation.

Business name - maybe, or yes if its a registered trademark.

Business process - no, unless it's patented.

Exact copies of the notecards yes, they just changed the business name for theirs...

About the business process, it's patented. So they copied all of the steps to do the work too. It's easy to prove as they still haven't changed the notecards and the steps are there too. It's all of it copied, not just small things, but everything.

4 hours ago, Resi Pfeffer said:

May i ask, what your business is about?

Service business. 

Any idea on how I could get Linden Labs get in the case? I'm new to all this, and it's unfair to copy all of my hard work, and do the same. 

I tried talking to them first, but they won't do anything about it and think they can get away with it... And I'm banned from there too.

[Ethan Paslong]

4 minutes ago, SarahBeths said:

 the business process, it's patented.

Any idea on how I could get Linden Labs get in the case?

a businsess process in SL that's patented... ok,

simple... DMCA

be really sure because if they counter your DMCA it can become a costly and long breath issue.

[Phil Deakins]

15 minutes ago, SarahBeths said:

About the business process, it's patented.

I've finished with this forum but I couldn't resist this.

Earlier I went inworld to see what service you perform, and I don't see anything about it that can be patented. Quite honestly, I don't believe that you have any patent concerning it. It's just not possible.

Edited November 22, 2018 by Phil Deakins

[Wulfie Reanimator]

20 minutes ago, SarahBeths said:

About the business process, it's patented. So they copied all of the steps to do the work too. It's easy to prove as they still haven't changed the notecards and the steps are there too. It's all of it copied, not just small things, but everything.

What's your patent number? I'm not asking because I particularly care, but because I'm pretty sure you don't understand what "being patented" means.

And by the way, filing a DMCA form is a legal form. You must provide accurate IRL info and references to where the stolen work can be found, which will be given to the other party so they can counter-claim you, and at that point you MUST take them to court or the case will be thrown out. 

Edited November 22, 2018 by Wulfie Reanimator

[SarahBeths]

1 hour ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

What's your patent number? I'm not asking because I particularly care, but because I'm pretty sure you don't understand what "being patented" means.

And by the way, filing a DMCA form is a legal form. You must provide accurate IRL info and references to where the stolen work can be found, which will be given to the other party so they can counter-claim you, and at that point you MUST take them to court or the case will be thrown out. 

1 hour ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

What's your patent number? I'm not asking because I particularly care, but because I'm pretty sure you don't understand what "being patented" means.

And by the way, filing a DMCA form is a legal form. You must provide accurate IRL info and references to where the stolen work can be found, which will be given to the other party so they can counter-claim you, and at that point you MUST take them to court or the case will be thrown out. 

I thought 'patented' meant 'following some detailed process to give a special result' when I looked for the definition, but it must mean more than that, right? 

About the DMCA, it will be quite easy to prove that they stole it, I only thought LL will take care of it. I don't really want it to be taken to court, for something like that at least, which only exists in SL.

One question though. How would others do when this happens? Basically anyone can come and copy things around SL and not be afraid to be punished if it's like that. Unless they take it to court... which almost no one will do. Do LL even have a policy about that? blockquote widget

[LittleMe Jewell]

10 minutes ago, SarahBeths said:

I thought 'patented' meant 'following some detailed process to give a special result' when I looked for the definition, but it must mean more than that, right? 

While "patented" does have that meaning, a "patent" is different and that is the legal entity that is protected.  A patent is:

 

Edited November 22, 2018 by LittleMe Jewell

[LittleMe Jewell]

14 minutes ago, SarahBeths said:

About the DMCA, it will be quite easy to prove that they stole it, I only thought LL will take care of it. I don't really want it to be taken to court, for something like that at least, which only exists in SL.

One question though. How would others do when this happens? Basically anyone can come and copy things around SL and not be afraid to be punished if it's like that. Unless they take it to court... which almost no one will do. Do LL even have a policy about that?

You only end up in court if the other party counter files on you -- basically claiming that you are wrong in your DMCA claim.  Then the courts have to decide.  

However, you can still only file a DMCA claim if whatever you are filing against is truly protected by law.  If a 'business process' does not hold a legal patent, then it is not protected by law.

Edited November 22, 2018 by LittleMe Jewell

[SarahBeths]

19 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

You only end up in court if the other party counter files on you -- basically claiming that you are wrong in your DMCA claim.  Then the courts have to decide.  

However, you can still only file a DMCA claim if whatever you are filing against is truly protected by law.  If a 'business process' does not hold a legal patent, then it is not protected by law.

Okay, thank you so much for explaining that to me. I'll report them to LL first and see what happens. 

It's a pity to see that there's people around SL stealing ideas and contents. 

[Luna Bliss]

14 minutes ago, SarahBeths said:

It's a pity to see that there's people around SL stealing ideas and contents. 

Yeah, try not to let it get you down.

Just make your business better by having great customer service and you'll outshine the other. How good can their business end up being if they're that lazy & dishonest.

[Wulfie Reanimator]

26 minutes ago, SarahBeths said:

Okay, thank you so much for explaining that to me. I'll report them to LL first and see what happens. 

It's a pity to see that there's people around SL stealing ideas and contents. 

There's nothing unethical about "stealing ideas," that's called competition and improvement. Ideas are free, the only thing you can own is what you get from your idea.

But if your "writing" (you called your business a service so I'm not sure what kind of writing that might be, aside from the documented "steps" you mentioned) is being stolen, that you can protect, but you cannot get LL to enforce anything on your behalf unless you prove to them that you are serious and file a legal form that literally forces LL to take action. Otherwise LL wil most likely just raise its hands and say "we won't get involved."

It's unfortunate but the (virtual) world is complicated.

P.S. You wouldn't end up in court if someone counter-claimed you. Only the original claimant (you) can escalate it to a court as far as I've understood, and only after you've been counter-claimed.

Edited November 22, 2018 by Wulfie Reanimator

[Luna Bliss]

9 minutes ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

There's nothing unethical about "stealing ideas," that's called competition and improvement. Ideas are free, the only thing you can own is what you get from your idea.

I agree here...we all get ideas from each other, but I think what the OP is experiencing goes beyond that. It's what I call a 'business stalker'. They single out a business and imitate most everything about their victim.

I had one such 'business stalker'....they watched me like a hawk, trying to imitate new items, even naming them in a similar fashion. It's like they fixate on a particular person/business with ultra-competitive motivations.

Edited November 22, 2018 by Luna Bliss

[Wulfie Reanimator]

7 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I agree here...we all get ideas from each other, but I think what the OP is experiencing goes beyond that. It's what I call a 'business stalker'. They single out a business and imitate most everything about their victim.

I had one such 'business stalker'....they watched me like a hawk, trying to imitate new items, even naming them in a similar fashion. It's like they fixate on a particular person/business with ultra-competitive motivations.

I understand that to be what's going on, but I don't think it makes a substantial difference. How did you solve it?

Edited November 22, 2018 by Wulfie Reanimator

[Luna Bliss]

22 minutes ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

I understand that to be what's going on, but I don't think it makes a substantial difference. How did you solve it?

I wasn't trying to solve the issue. I thought the following comment you made didn't demonstrate you knew the seriousness or depth of her problem:

"There's nothing unethical about "stealing ideas," that's called competition and improvement. Ideas are free, the only thing you can own is what you get from your idea. "

I do consider this unethical (what the thief is doing) and I wondered if you didn't understand this was more than the typical way creators legitimately get some ideas from others. I wanted the OP to know I sympathize with what she's going through -- to sympathize one has to know what the problem really is.

[Wulfie Reanimator]

20 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I wasn't trying to solve the issue. I thought the following comment you made didn't demonstrate you knew the seriousness or depth of her problem:

"There's nothing unethical about "stealing ideas," that's called competition and improvement. Ideas are free, the only thing you can own is what you get from your idea. "

I do consider this unethical (what the thief is doing) and I wondered if you didn't understand this was more than the typical way creators legitimately get some ideas from others. I wanted the OP to know I sympathize with what she's going through -- to sympathize one has to know what the problem really is.

No, no, I understand that this is a literal copycat trying to do everything OP is doing. I would still classify this as competition, because if it isn't and they're just copying to be annoying, firstly there'd be a case for reportable harassment, but secondly and most importantly, that'd mean the copycat business would always be a step behind, and always inferior. Unless you think your customers would be dumb enough to go for the copycat and think they're doing it better, which isn't a good thing on your behalf.

But you said you had this experience yourself, so telling us how you solved your issue could be a big help for OP.

Edited November 22, 2018 by Wulfie Reanimator

[Luna Bliss]

15 minutes ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

But you said you had this experience yourself, so telling us how you solved your issue could be a big help for OP.

Well, I won't go into details regarding one incident as what I did goes against what I believe is right. I exacted revenge. Not too much, but enough for me to sense that indeed, revenge is sweet. It's just that it's wrong. It was good for me to have the experience to understand it though, as I can say I almost never have been revengeful.

With the other case, I just ignored them. As you know, there's not anything you can do to truly solve the problem. But as I already told the OP, you can work on being known as always doing your best to support your customer...and that goes a very long way in this world.

[Phil Deakins]

This particular case is like wedding organisers. Someone was the first to do it in SL, and others followed suit. Anyone can see what the OP is doing and follow suit in the same way. That's perfectly fine. What isn't fine is someone using the OP's writings for it. That's the only thing that the OP has to complain about. Copying the business idea is absolutely fine.

I really don't think that LL will get involved in the text copying, unless the OP takes some legal action.

Edited November 22, 2018 by Phil Deakins

[animats]

2 hours ago, SarahBeths said:

I thought 'patented' meant 'following some detailed process to give a special result' when I looked for the definition, but it must mean more than that, right?

You may be able to use a DMCA notice to get content taken down. Useful reading for artists on DMCA notices. Linden Labs accepts those by paper mail or fax only. (There are email to fax services available.) If someone copied a sizable block of your text or your image exactly, that's usually copyright infringement. Stuff that's merely similar may or may not be copyright infringement. That's when you need a lawyer. Copyrights are created simply by creating and publishing something. You can file a copyright registration with the Library of Congress for US$35-$55, and that's required before you go to court, but not before filing a DMCA notice.

Patents require a formal filing with a national patent office, thousands of dollars in fees, and expensive lawyers. I have several issued utility patents; I've done inventing as a business. You (mostly) can't get business patents any more, anyway. (Long story.) Trademarks also require a formal filing with a national trademark office, a fee of about $400 in the US, and proof you do some business, however small, under that name. If you had a patent or trademark, you would know. They're public records, by the way; you can look them up at USPTO.gov.

Edited November 22, 2018 by animats
Expand.

[SarahBeths]

21 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

This particular case is like wedding organisers. Someone was the first to do it in SL, and others followed suit. Anyone can see what the OP is doing and follow suit in the same way. That's perfectly fine. What isn't fine is someone using the OP's writings for it. That's the only thing that the OP has to complain about. Copying the business idea is absolutely fine.

I really don't think that LL will get involved in the text copying, unless the OP takes some legal action.

Copying ideas is fine, what is wrong is copying everything word for word and claiming it's their own. I wouldn't be complaining if it was only the business idea. It went as far as setting the same offers as mine. Like my summer offer is literally still written in their notecards. 

1 hour ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

No, no, I understand that this is a literal copycat trying to do everything OP is doing. I would still classify this as competition, because if it isn't and they're just copying to be annoying, firstly there'd be a case for reportable harassment, but secondly and most importantly, that'd mean the copycat business would always be a step behind, and always inferior. Unless you think your customers would be dumb enough to go for the copycat and think they're doing it better, which isn't a good thing on your behalf.

But you said you had this experience yourself, so telling us how you solved your issue could be a big help for OP.

I did reach out to them about the notecards, not only they didn't care but also claimed that they're better and will keep it this way. No intention of changing anything on their hand. Obviously I'm now banned from the place... You're right about being a step away from us, however they can keep sending alts to grab the notecards again if I change them all...

I will change all my notecards, and trying to keep running things smoothly hoping people won't be scammed by them. It's unfair, but I hope they won't get any business done this way, and won't get a hand of the new notecards and business ideas. 

Edited November 22, 2018 by SarahBeths

[ellestones]

5 hours ago, SarahBeths said:

Copying ideas is fine, what is wrong is copying everything word for word and claiming it's their own. I wouldn't be complaining if it was only the business idea. It went as far as setting the same offers as mine. Like my summer offer is literally still written in their notecards.

@Phil Deakins agreed with what you wrote here

as others have said. For LL to take action you have to file a DMCA against any copypasta notecards. Previous or new

[Selene Gregoire]

On 11/22/2018 at 12:10 PM, animats said:

You may be able to use a DMCA notice to get content taken down. Useful reading for artists on DMCA notices. Linden Labs accepts those by paper mail or fax only. (There are email to fax services available.) If someone copied a sizable block of your text or your image exactly, that's usually copyright infringement. Stuff that's merely similar may or may not be copyright infringement. That's when you need a lawyer. Copyrights are created simply by creating and publishing something. You can file a copyright registration with the Library of Congress for US$35-$55, and that's required before you go to court, but not before filing a DMCA notice.

Patents require a formal filing with a national patent office, thousands of dollars in fees, and expensive lawyers. I have several issued utility patents; I've done inventing as a business. You (mostly) can't get business patents any more, anyway. (Long story.) Trademarks also require a formal filing with a national trademark office, a fee of about $400 in the US, and proof you do some business, however small, under that name. If you had a patent or trademark, you would know. They're public records, by the way; you can look them up at USPTO.gov.

Personally, I would send a DMCA snail mail, registered and return receipt requested so it has to be signed for. That way I know who it was delivered to and on what date. It also provides evidence documentation that will stand up in court.