The Old Lie: "Dulce et Decorum Est"

[Luna Bliss]

Meditation has been found to help some soldiers with PTSD:

https://psychcentral.com/news/2016/01/12/transcendental-meditation-helps-soldiers-manage-ptsd/97525.html

 

Edited November 15, 2018 by Luna Bliss

[Love Zhaoying]

11 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Meditation has been found to help some soldiers with PTSD:

https://psychcentral.com/news/2016/01/12/transcendental-meditation-helps-soldiers-manage-ptsd/97525.html

 

As had guided LSD trips..(heard it on NPR).

[Selene Gregoire]

59 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Why?

You honor your veterans your way, I will honor my veterans my way.

 

Your way (if you google "why veterans don't like to be thanked" you'll find tons more):

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/22/sunday-review/please-dont-thank-me-for-my-service.html

https://inmilitary.com/why-saying-thank-you-for-your-service-offends-some-veterans/

https://military.id.me/community-news/dont-say-thank-you-for-your-service/

 

My way:

 

If you don't understand what I am trying to convey, I can't help you. I mean that sincerely, not sarcastically.

Edited November 15, 2018 by Selene Gregoire

[Love Zhaoying]

22 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

You honor your veterans your way, I will honor my veterans my way.

 

Your way (if you google "why veterans don't like to be thanked" you'll find tons more):

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/22/sunday-review/please-dont-thank-me-for-my-service.html

https://inmilitary.com/why-saying-thank-you-for-your-service-offends-some-veterans/

https://military.id.me/community-news/dont-say-thank-you-for-your-service/

 

My way:

 

If you don't understand what I am trying to convey, I can't help you. I mean that sincerely, not sarcastically.

Ah, indigenous peoples. Got it. Just didn’t see the connection between Gunga Din and WW1, which was the original main topic of the thread. Thanks!

[Fionalein]

And you think indigenous vets think this flag parade is better? I think the real problem why some resent to be thanked for their service is regretting to enroll in the first place. The way you thank them for voluntarily becoming cannon fodder in your name won't change their attitude in that case. It is the same situation as in the Great War just on a smaller scale - but to the individual disillussioned volunteer who went through hell the scale won't change - hell is hell, death is final, no matter how many of your comrades die - one or thausands. Our human minds don't make a difference due to the global scale.

No flag parade, no medal, no "thank you" will ever help them and only remind them of a choice they now regret. I assume being thanked by members of their own nation instead won't help that either, Selene.

Edited November 15, 2018 by Fionalein

[LittleMe Jewell]

30 minutes ago, Fionalein said:

No flag parade, no medal, no "thank you" will ever help them and only remind them of a choice they now regret.

I know many vets that don't want a "thank you", but also do not in any way regret their choice to serve, even for those dealing with PTSD issues.  The reasons for vets not wanting a "thank you" are varied and I know more vets that appreciate the "thank you" than those that don't want to hear it. 

 

[Innula Zenovka]

A discussion of the role of volunteers from India (including what are now Pakistan and Bangladesh) in WW1

 

[Selene Gregoire]

34 minutes ago, Fionalein said:

And you think indigenous vets think this flag parade is better? I think the real problem why some resent to be thanked for their service is regretting to enroll in the first place. The way you thank them for voluntarily becoming cannon fodder in your name won't change their attitude in that case. It is the same situation as in the Great War just on a smaller scale - but to the individual disillussioned volunteer who went through hell the scale won't change - hell is hell, death is final, no matter how many of your comrades die - one or thausands. Our human minds don't make a difference due to the global scale.

No flag parade, no medal, no "thank you" will ever help them and only remind them of a choice they now regret. I assume being thanked by members of their own nation instead won't help that either, Selene.

It is not a parade. It is a Grand Entry to a powwow, the opening ceremony, and those vets WANT to be a part of it. If they didn't want to be a part of it, they would not participate. It is not mandatory. They aren't just honoring themselves, they are honoring those who served, those who are serving and those who are no longer with us. 

 

[Fionalein]

"want" not WANT - ever heared about group pressure, Selene?

[Selene Gregoire]

14 minutes ago, Fionalein said:

"want" not WANT - ever heared about group pressure, Selene?

There is no group pressure to participate in Grand Entry. 

https://www.voanews.com/a/native-american-pow-wows-celebrate-patriotism-unity/3917859.html

 

http://www.grandronde.org/news/smoke-signals/2018/07/13/veterans-powwow-remembers-soderberg-merrill/#sthash.EWTWt1LC.dpbs

 

http://www.grandronde.org/news/smoke-signals/2017/07/11/veterans-powwow-promotes-esprit-de-corps/#sthash.9UBTLRO6.KwFwaMcC.dpbs

 

https://www.idahostatejournal.com/members/veterans-honored-at-shoshone-bannock-indian-festival/article_f4419f03-0b22-55dd-a6e7-0a42fc3e13e0.html

Edited November 15, 2018 by Selene Gregoire

[Love Zhaoying]

1 hour ago, Selene Gregoire said:

Your way (if you google "why veterans don't like to be thanked" you'll find tons more):

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/22/sunday-review/please-dont-thank-me-for-my-service.html

https://inmilitary.com/why-saying-thank-you-for-your-service-offends-some-veterans/

https://military.id.me/community-news/dont-say-thank-you-for-your-service/

How did this become part of the discussion? I missed that. 

[Selene Gregoire]

2 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

How did this become part of the discussion? I missed that. 

You asked me why. I'm trying to show you why. Words are insufficient.

[Pamela Galli]

48 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

I know many vets that don't want a "thank you", but also do not in any way regret their choice to serve, even for those dealing with PTSD issues.  The reasons for vets not wanting a "thank you" are varied and I know more vets that appreciate the "thank you" than those that don't want to hear it. 

 

I am now hearing advice to say “Never forget” instead. But that sounds weird to be coming from a civilian. 

[Love Zhaoying]

29 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

You asked me why. I'm trying to show you why. Words are insufficient.

Hmm...ok.

[Selene Gregoire]

15 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Hmm...ok.

You don't seem to really grasp what I'm trying to say. Perhaps these will help:

Native communities grapple with what it means to honor their U.S. military veterans 

https://www.americanindianmagazine.org/story/voice-our-native-veterans

Last year, in Bismarck, a powwow was held specifically to honor more than 350 native WWI vets:

http://www.minotdailynews.com/news/local-news/2017/08/powwow-to-honor-native-american-wwi-veterans/

 

This is our way of thanking our veterans without the need for words. Actions do speak louder than words.

Edited November 15, 2018 by Selene Gregoire

[Love Zhaoying]

Just now, Selene Gregoire said:

You don't seem to really grasp what I'm trying to say. Perhaps these will help:

Native communities grapple with what it means to honor their U.S. military veterans 

https://www.americanindianmagazine.org/story/voice-our-native-veterans

Last year, in Bismarck, a powwow was held specifically to honor more than 350 native WWI vets:

http://www.minotdailynews.com/news/local-news/2017/08/powwow-to-honor-native-american-wwi-veterans/

 

This is our way of saying thank you without the need for words. Actions do speak louder than words.

No, I’m just trying to relate the multiple topics together. 

[Selene Gregoire]

Just now, Love Zhaoying said:

No, I’m just trying to relate the multiple topics together. 

Ah. Sorry. Not sure I can help you with that. I'm not very good at translating Lakota words into English that don't exist in English. 

[Love Zhaoying]

21 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

You don't seem to really grasp what I'm trying to say. 

But, I don’t need to understand. I only need to accept that there are multiple experiences, multiple viewpoints, all deserving of respect.

[Selene Gregoire]

18 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

But, I don’t need to understand. I only need to accept that there are multiple experiences, multiple viewpoints, all deserving of respect.

I didn't say understand. I said grasp. Grasp doesn't mean the same thing as understand. It is possible to grasp something without understanding it. If you can accept multiple experiences and multiple viewpoints without actually understanding them, then you have grasped them. Just as you can accept something without having respect for it.

“Respect” is defined by Merriam-Webster as “a feeling of deep admiration for someone or something elicited by their abilities, qualities, or achievements” and “accept” as “to believe or come to recognize (an opinion, explanation, etc.) as valid or correct”.

 

Hope that makes sense to you.

Edited November 15, 2018 by Selene Gregoire

[Love Zhaoying]

12 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

I didn't say understand. I said grasp. Grasp doesn't mean the same thing as understand. It is possible to grasp something without understanding it. If you can accept multiple experiences and multiple viewpoints without actually understanding them, then you have grasped them. Just as you can accept something without having respect for it.

“Respect” is defined by Merriam-Webster as “a feeling of deep admiration for someone or something elicited by their abilities, qualities, or achievements” and “accept” as “to believe or come to recognize (an opinion, explanation, etc.) as valid or correct”.

 

Hope that makes sense to you.

I can grasp it, but I can’t grok it.

[Selene Gregoire]

16 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I can grasp it, but I can’t grok it.

Not everyone can grok. 

[Love Zhaoying]

3 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

Not everyone can grok. 

I may be a lion, but not everyone tastes good enough to grok!

[Hans Modan]

What a fascinating thread, particularly because it offers a global perspective about Remembrance.

I am in the UK. I make no secret of it: I dislike the white poppy because it has politicised the issue and it offers a very narrow agenda and also takes away charitable money from those who need it. The British Legion red poppy is and always has been inclusive and recognises all those who have suffered from warfare, military and civilians, all races and colours etc

But what I will say is that all those who served gave us the freedom to make choices and for some people, that choice includes having the freedom to wear whatever poppy they wish to or even decide not to wear a poppy. That is what is compelling about Remembrance: our very freedoms have arrived, in some part, from others’ sacrifices.