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Macrocosm Draegonne

Water Transparency from Above?

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I looked thru the whole EEP Jira (tons of good stuff, & so many accepted too!)  I also searched on the topic and couldn't find a thing.

The water is not transparent from above anymore, it is from below.  There seems to be a new water setup?  I'm sure you're already aware of the transparency thing, but Im curious if its in the works, or its going away?  I didnt want to file a jira if this is a known thing.

I cant imagine what parts of the water system you've got your hands on, but please do any and all things you can comfortably do if at all possible or allowed. :)  How about a slight edge effect on the surface materials wherever water meets land?  ...fading out the Normal/Spec close to the edge.  Based on the LL water (im guessing) this would fit right in with the depth/camera-angle numbers already being calculated for the existing water effects.* 

I cant imagine this would be too heavy an effect for the huge benefit though right? if any performance hit at all?

The other thing is underwater caustics light effect.  Currently it can only be nearly approximated using animated projector lights, and is very heavy to render comparatively to something integrated, that could also be disabled when shutting off advanced lighting setting perhaps.*

*Not making demands, just to be clear, since some folks are touchy around here at the mere whiff of open discussion and questions, not most people of course.

Edited by Macrocosm Draegonne
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12 hours ago, Macrocosm Draegonne said:

The water is not transparent from above anymore, it is from below

The appearance of LL Water from above is largely the product of which "water preset" your viewer is set to use...

From clear Caribbean lagoon shallows, to dense black lakes of crude oil...

Assuming that therefore "Water needs fixing because clueless artistes didn't bother to check their viewer settings" is a bit premature.

Go find out how your viewer works first eh?
 

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34 minutes ago, Klytyna said:

The appearance of LL Water from above is largely the product of which "water preset" your viewer is set to use...

From clear Caribbean lagoon shallows, to dense black lakes of crude oil...

Assuming that therefore "Water needs fixing because clueless artistes didn't bother to check their viewer settings" is a bit premature.

Go find out how your viewer works first eh?
 

Yeah I hear ya, thats perfectly true, but are you aware this is the EEP forum section?  FYI, in case you've not tested the dev-viewer,  you cannot change the water like the old viewers, its a new thing being worked on.  You can change the normal, and there are a bunch of sliders too, its getting updated in EEP. :)

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17 minutes ago, Macrocosm Draegonne said:

Yeah I hear ya, thats perfectly true, but are you aware this is the EEP forum section?  FYI, in case you've not tested the dev-viewer,  you cannot change the water like the old viewers, its a new thing being worked on.  You can change the normal, and there are a bunch of sliders too, its getting updated in EEP.

I refuse to use ANY version of the SL Inferiority Viewer because a) it's inferior, and b) no RLVa.

And the knowledge that the many and varied water presets are being removed to make room for a new system, doesn't make EEP more attractive.

The new controls look interesting, but will mainly be for the technically minded, so the majority eagerly awaiting "per parcel" windlight settings will suddenly find themselves without water settings to complement their chosen parcel windlights... And a need to suddenly learn the basics of optical physics, and then learn how the parameters shown above relate to the actual scientific terminology used in optical physics.

For example, I see sliders for refraction scale, and blur, but nothing for setting Index of Refraction, which in manyways is far more important in determining the nature of a liquid's visual appearance.

Lakes of liquid nitrogen on some distant moon don't have the same IoR as sea water for example.

...

PS. From your screen shot, I can see why your water is opaque from above and clear from below...

Like I said, go and learn how to use your viewer before demanding that something needs to be "fixed"

 

Edited by Klytyna

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11 minutes ago, Klytyna said:

I refuse to use ANY version of the SL Inferiority Viewer because a) it's inferior, and b) no RLVa.

And the knowledge that the many and varied water presets are being removed to make room for a new system, doesn't make EEP more attractive.

The new controls look interesting, but will mainly be for the technically minded, so the majority eagerly awaiting "per parcel" windlight settings will suddenly find themselves without water settings to complement their chosen parcel windlights... And a need to suddenly learn the basics of optical physics, and then learn how the parameters shown above relate to the actual scientific terminology used in optical physics.

For example, I see sliders for refraction scale, and blur, but nothing for setting Index of Refraction, which in manyways is far more important in determining the nature of a liquid's visual appearance.

Lakes of liquid nitrogen on some distant moon don't have the same IoR as sea water for example.

...

PS. From your screen shot, I can see why your water is opaque from above and clear from below...

Like I said, go and learn how to use your viewer before demanding that something needs to be "fixed"

 

Changing any slider will not change the surface opacity, at least not in this dev viewer, I tweaked every section to the fullest possible.

There will not be a loss, i read jira's pertaining to support legacy presets, and the firestorm numbers too, a lot of work has gone into this, it will be in all viewers when the time comes.  I am curious about the surface transparency'ish effect since so far I couldn't get it to work yet.  I cant imagine its going away, especially if they mean to support legacy presets.

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Yeah water rendering is pretty hosed on the EEP viewer, especially with ALM enabled.
I didn't file a bug for that yet - it's on my very loooong "still to file" list.

You should definitely JIRA it.
If I don't see a JIRA from you when I get around to it, I'll file one.

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3 minutes ago, Whirly Fizzle said:

Yeah water rendering is pretty hosed on the EEP viewer, especially with ALM enabled.
I didn't file a bug for that yet - it's on my very loooong "still to file" list.

You should definitely JIRA it.
If I don't see a JIRA from you when I get around to it, I'll file one.

Ahh another list?  I found your great compilation of small bits in that one jira that may become full issues.

Ok I will file a jira issue on this if we dont hear soon that its not needed, im sure they must know the issue is happening too.  I am so excited they're getting their hands on the LL water!! Any good evolutions are very much welcome in the mix, EEP is already turning out to be really lovely.  :)

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Its rare when you can see so much, i wasnt fully aware of how much is on the Jira.  Seeing what can be done and is in the works is priceless.   I am coming from server-linux,  drupal, and many other opensource projects where its great to see and engage the development and open issues solving etcetera.  Geeky excitement lol! 

Edited by Macrocosm Draegonne
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We still have quite a bit of work to do on the various shaders... could you file a feature request one for the underwater lighting caustics please?

I will watch for the JIRAs.  (It is much more reliable than adding to the litter of post-it notes on my desk)

Related image

Edited by Rider Linden
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1 minute ago, Rider Linden said:

We still have quite a bit of work to do on the various shaders... could you file a feature request one for the underwater lighting caustics please? 

I will watch for the JIRAs.  (It is much more reliable than adding to the litter of post-it notes on my desk) 

Related image

I literally had to make a personal rule about sticky notes! Im not allowed to buy them anymore.  It got crazy lol  >.>

Ok I will file a report on the caustics, I already found some cool openGL bits related to it, though im sure you're a million times more aware and capable in that regard! lol

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On 10/30/2018 at 11:44 AM, Macrocosm Draegonne said:

I literally had to make a personal rule about sticky notes! Im not allowed to buy them anymore.  It got crazy lol  >.>

Ok I will file a report on the caustics, I already found some cool openGL bits related to it, though im sure you're a million times more aware and capable in that regard! lol

Got a link to it? Caustics would be a *cool* add on.

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There are several example vids and links of caustics/water effects listed on the jira I linked above but here's an additional example for those who dont want to read the jira. :)  This is blender and glsl, there are many other examples in the jira and elsewhere online.

A good way to explain the most basic caustics lighting, I imagine the Sim's existing Water Quad is now as a giant projector-light pointing downward who's intensity and angle could be dictated by Sun/Moon position, or even any light-source above the waters surface.  Of course there are many other things in a water shader along with the caustics that pull it all together.  The LL water already has a lot of those great qualities, but more is good right? :)

Isnt this water yummy? and he said he wasnt nearly done with it yet, I wonder how much more he's progressed it since then?

 

 

 

Edited by Macrocosm Draegonne
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On 10/28/2018 at 8:35 AM, Macrocosm Draegonne said:

The water is not transparent from above anymore, it is from below.  There seems to be a new water setup?  I'm sure you're already aware of the transparency thing, but Im curious if its in the works, or its going away?  I didnt want to file a jira if this is a known thing.

 

On 10/29/2018 at 12:08 AM, Whirly Fizzle said:

Yeah water rendering is pretty hosed on the EEP viewer, especially with ALM enabled.
I didn't file a bug for that yet - it's on my very loooong "still to file" list.

You should definitely JIRA it.
If I don't see a JIRA from you when I get around to it, I'll file one.

I didn't see a JIRA from you,. so I filed one.

BUG-225928 - [EEP] The water fog density exponent setting has no effect on EEP viewers

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On 12/8/2018 at 12:36 PM, Whirly Fizzle said:

Thanks Whirly, I left if off after what Rider said above, he didnt mention that but rather the caustics so I guessed he wasnt too concerned and only made one for that, but you're right its best to get all the things in there and easily referenced.  Cheers! ❤️ I love Jira and keep poking Sansar peeps about how brilliant it is, I guess they must use it or something similar but its closed to public, which might be smart in these early stages, but still.. Jira is sweet!

Edited by Macrocosm Draegonne
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