Abuse by Linden Employee

[Solar Legion]

1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I agree you didn’t..but you implied there is “reason” for it. My post showed example of “no reason”.

Except base hatred is still a reason. Not the reason I meant, but a reason. 

Is it reasonable? Not really, no.

[Wulfie Reanimator]

16 hours ago, Till Vaher said:

THE MAJORITY OF THINGS MADE FOR FURRIES ARE MESH AND FULL PERMS BECAUSE NOBODY WANTS A SCULPTY AND YOU NEED TO BE ABLE TO MODIFY IT OR GIVE IT TO SOMEONE TO MODIFY FOR YOU

Absolutely false on all fronts.

4 hours ago, Fionalein said:

Not a single Linden, but several with different ideas

I've personally experienced this as a moderator. It can cause a lot of problems when there's miscommunication on what is acceptable, or what warnings/punishments have already been issued to users.

[Ancient Lavarock]

Oh gosh.

So, first of all. I didn't realize that Jira tickets were public. :l I hope the way I wrote it hasn't caused too much grief or trouble for the people mentioned, and if it has, I am deeply deeply sorry.

I am very happy to see that the issue is being looked into. I really hope that we can get some new categories so that things can be kept neat and tidy, while also following the listing rules of the MP. The last thing I wanted to do was put something in the wrong spot, throw on the wrong keywords, etc. So having stuff torn down from the MP is a little disheartening.

Anywho. Uh. Yeah. Thank you all for the support, comments, concerns etc. Again, I do apologize if my ticket caused any problems with how I worded things. I didn't realize it would be a public thing and just figured it would be one of those "put your suggestion in the box and hope it gets drawn one day" sort of deals.

[Paul Hexem]

If we're going to start making special sub categories just for certain avatars, we're going to have to make special sub categories for all of them.

[Ethan Paslong]

4 minutes ago, Gadget Portal said:

If we're going to start making special sub categories just for certain avatars, we're going to have to make special sub categories for all of them.

/me wants socks .. or is there already?

[Cindy Evanier]

2 minutes ago, Ethan Paslong said:

/me wants socks .. or is there already?

I thought you wanted  a category in used items for all the odd socks

[Ethan Paslong]

19 minutes ago, Cindy Evanier said:

I thought you wanted  a category in used items for all the odd socks

ssshhh... didn't want to start about that before we have the sock department

[Wulfie Reanimator]

3 hours ago, Gadget Portal said:

If we're going to start making special sub categories just for certain avatars, we're going to have to make special sub categories for all of them.

I do not think this is a necessary leap. In fact, that logic could be used to subdivide the current MP categories into oblivion without adding entirely new ones. We categorize clothes by gender, what about nonbinary or any specific niche gender? (PSA: This is rhetorical.)

Furries are a large majority of a type of avatar seen on SL. Making a category for them is justified. I would accept the same for fantasy/scifi but I cannot argue for them because I don't see them even close to as spread out all over SL as furries or 'default human.'

For the categories to be useful, we need categories for all the major demographics on SL. If a category grows too large or the items have to be put in "weird placed," it's okay to make new categories. The fact that we are having this issue with items by the furry community is reason enough to give them their own new master category. It's easier for the end-user than having "furry" as a subcategory in every avatar related category. 

Edited October 29, 2018 by Wulfie Reanimator

[Solar Legion]

No, just no. 

Either you make individual categories for EVERY type of Fantasy Avatar..... Or you do not. 

Period. 

The existing categories are more than enough, some specialized categories were already added in... And simply did not need to be. 

Those who review Marketplace flags need to have a singular, cohesive and flexible example listing for what items belong in the different categories. That would cut down on flag griefing immensely. 

The search system needs a tiny bit of work as well - want a Furry anything at all? Run a search containing that as a key word. Simple. 

Normally I distance myself a bit from the Furry community within Second Life - the attitudes of some Furries in this thread being part of why. 

Speaking as a Furry? We do not need any further specialized Marketplace categories. We simply don't. 

Numbers confer no special privilege - get over it and deal with it. 

[Wulfie Reanimator]

3 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

Normally I distance myself a bit from the Furry community within Second Life - the attitudes of some Furries in this thread being part of why. 

 

3 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

Speaking as a Furry? [...] get over it and deal with it. 

Thank you for your shining example..

[Drake1 Nightfire]

On 10/26/2018 at 5:47 PM, Braelynn Darkstone said:

There's a LL employee mass flagging all furry items put into the furry accessories, regardless if it's a furry accessory. Such as armor for a feral furry avatar, or eyes specifically fit to a furry head. It's not only myself that's getting flagged, many furry creators are having this issue. Several of us have contacted LL by submitting a ticket, and this same LL employee has replied to all of us and replying with the same generic response. But giving this examples of why there is a furry accessories category; because furry accessories don't fit normal avatars. This is the definition of all furry products. They do not fit human avatars or products. They are suggesting to put furry clothing for a specific furry avatar into the unisex clothing section. It's not unisex clothing, there are male and female options usually and for furry avatars and furry parts.

Furry customers, for the most part, only shop in the furry accessories section for mods, clothing, eyes and addon parts. This is the only furry section creators can use to display their furry products, unless it's a full furry avatar, there is a section for that. If we're forced to put our furry products in human categories, where furries have to sift through hundreds of thousands of products to find their niche furry item or have humans having to sift through furry items they have no need of, it's going to cause businesses to lose sales. And if businesses lose sales, Linden Labs loses sales. Because they no longer get the MP percentage cut, or the Linden Exchange percentage cut because creators are no longer making enough money. And why now? We've been using this category for many years now and all of a sudden this one Linden, who is a furry, decides we can no longer use it for our products.

I've just had this product flagged; Eyes for furry heads. And another content creator I know just had this flagged; digi-grade clothing for furry avatars. Having these items in a non-furry category will cause unwanted sales. If a human sees these products and purchases them, but does not know or realize they are specifically for furries (I've even had this happen IN the furry category) than that will cause bad reviews.

This can only lead to confusion, loss of sales and more false flagging from humans who see furry items and believe they are in the wrong category.

Its me again... OK.. I'm gonna post this because it is an alternate theory of why your items were flagged in the first place.. one of your items. 

Short Spooky Toobies

Keywords: Pixel Junk, PJ, Caboodle, Maitreya, Canine, Legs, Socks, Stockings, Leggings, Toobies, Tube, Sock, Digi, Clothing, Furry, Striped, Colorful, Natural, Stripes, Bats, Bones, Halloween, Spooky, Spoopy,

The ones i bolded, which is it? please pick one. The ones in blue are subjective. The red, why put that at all? Why reference another store that doesnt sell furry things? This is called keywords spam boys and girls and everyone in between. It is a big reason people flag things. If i was looking for Pj's your items would pop up.. All of them... skins, legs, mods, eyes.. STOP IT!!! Use relevant words that are not in the items name or your store name. 

Every merchant should have to read this and take a test before they can list anything.. SECOND LIFE MARKETPLACE FEE AND LISTING POLICIES

Keyword spam is the use of words (such as brand names, item names, or other terms) that have nothing to do with the item listed so that the listing will appear in search results. Keyword spam is not allowed because it clutters the SL Marketplace and makes buying and selling more difficult. 

 

[Love Zhaoying]

So...random person searches forum, finds things that don’t belong, notices keywords, reports. Sounds legit! But why isn’t “keyword spam” in the reported info? Or, did OP just miss that..

[Wulfie Reanimator]

41 minutes ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

Keywords: Pixel Junk, PJ, Caboodle, Maitreya, Canine, Legs, Socks, Stockings, Leggings, Toobies, Tube, Sock, Digi, Clothing, Furry, Striped, Colorful, Natural, Stripes, Bats, Bones, Halloween, Spooky, Spoopy,

How do you find this out?

[Drake1 Nightfire]

1 minute ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

How do you find this out?

Greasemonkey plugin, please dont ask which one, i did it years ago and dont remember.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

26 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

So...random person searches forum, finds things that don’t belong, notices keywords, reports. Sounds legit! But why isn’t “keyword spam” in the reported info? Or, did OP just miss that..

Dunno, when i had something pulled they sent an email with the why it was pulled. Mine was an adult outfit that i forgot to flag as adult. I would seriously guess theirs are more keyword spam than anything malicious on LL part. Seeing as LL doesnt patrol the MP and all reports are made by users... 

[Solar Legion]

If you're going to mangle one of my posts when responding, don't bother to respond. 

Context - it matters. 

Edited October 29, 2018 by Solar Legion

[LittleMe Jewell]

56 minutes ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

How do you find this out?

Whirly provided this link earlier in this thread:  https://greasyfork.org/en/scripts/3486-marketplace-secondlife-com-tools

You also have to install a user script manager:  https://greasyfork.org/en/help/installing-user-scripts

After installing those, the keywords show in read right below the item picture

 

Edited October 29, 2018 by LittleMe Jewell

[Ethan Paslong]

1 hour ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

How do you find this out?

instead of plugins, when using firefox: right click / show page info

[Cindy Evanier]

16 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

After installing those, the keywords show in read right below the item picture

I installed it the other day and then had to stop myself from flagging half the MP.  Why isn't keywords just visible to all?  It would cut down the keyword spam so much

[Nama Gearz]

11 hours ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

Its me again... OK.. I'm gonna post this because it is an alternate theory of why your items were flagged in the first place.. one of your items. 

Short Spooky Toobies

Keywords: Pixel Junk, PJ, Caboodle, Maitreya, Canine, Legs, Socks, Stockings, Leggings, Toobies, Tube, Sock, Digi, Clothing, Furry, Striped, Colorful, Natural, Stripes, Bats, Bones, Halloween, Spooky, Spoopy,

The ones i bolded, which is it? please pick one. The ones in blue are subjective. The red, why put that at all? Why reference another store that doesnt sell furry things? This is called keywords spam boys and girls and everyone in between. It is a big reason people flag things. If i was looking for Pj's your items would pop up.. All of them... skins, legs, mods, eyes.. STOP IT!!! Use relevant words that are not in the items name or your store name. 

Every merchant should have to read this and take a test before they can list anything.. SECOND LIFE MARKETPLACE FEE AND LISTING POLICIES

Keyword spam is the use of words (such as brand names, item names, or other terms) that have nothing to do with the item listed so that the listing will appear in search results. Keyword spam is not allowed because it clutters the SL Marketplace and makes buying and selling more difficult. 

 

Did you just miss the header for her store entirely? Bullseye was formerly called Pixel Junk, so as observant as you are about keywords, you seem to have not really looked around at much else, which I think is part of the problem with people reporting keywords. Either they don't know how keywords work (I don't think you do) or they miss important details and go on to try and scrub the marketplace clean because what they think they're doing is right even though they don't have the proper knowledge of what they're flagging.

Back to that point of me thinking you don't know how keywords work; all the stuff you have bolded are legitimate search terms. Honestly, the best way for people to be able to find something you want them to find is to list as many variations of that word as you can so you can cover as many things people might think to type in. It's just common sense to want to be as fool proof as possible when trying to assure people will find your items in search, this includes abbreviations to store names. It's unfortunate that it may also mean something else, but am I not allowed to have my shop name in my keywords because it's "Static" and could bring up TVs or radios? Not really a fair way to look at this.

Keyword spam would be if you were selling hotdog meshes and put football into your keywords because people eat hotdogs at football games. Not when you're trying to sell tube socks and say leggings.

Edited October 29, 2018 by Nama Gearz
Grammar typo and an additional thought.

[Paul Hexem]

13 hours ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

Furries are a large majority of a type of avatar seen on SL. Making a category for them is justified. I would accept the same for fantasy/scifi but I cannot argue for them because I don't see them even close to as spread out all over SL as furries or 'default human.'

Special treatment because "there's more of us", that always works out so well.

 

13 hours ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

For the categories to be useful, we need categories for all the major demographics on SL. If a category grows too large or the items have to be put in "weird placed," it's okay to make new categories. The fact that we are having this issue with items by the furry community is reason enough to give them their own new master category. It's easier for the end-user than having "furry" as a subcategory in every avatar related category. 

Furries don't need special sub categories or master categories for clothes or accessories. You simply specify in the listing that it's for furries or a specific brand, just like creators already do for the various mesh bodies.

[LittleMe Jewell]

13 hours ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

Furries are a large majority of a type of avatar seen on SL. Making a category for them is justified.

Hell, it wasn't that long ago where we had a thread here in the forums debating exactly what was a furry.  Is a Neco a furry?   What about a human looking avi with mouse ears and tail?  Do they have to have animal legs and/or arms?  What if I put on a Playboy Bunny suit? 

See, these are the questions, and many more, that will arise if someone has to try and figure out if something is for a Furry or Non-Furry avatar.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

1 hour ago, Nama Gearz said:

Did you just miss the header for her store entirely? Bullseye was formerly called Pixel Junk, so as observant as you are about keywords, you seem to have not really looked around at much else, which I think is part of the problem with people reporting keywords. Either they don't know how keywords work (I don't think you do) or they miss important details and go on to try and scrub the marketplace clean because what they think they're doing is right even though they don't have the proper knowledge of what they're flagging.

You mean that little square that says "Formerly PJ"? Right, because that explains so much. Just so you know Pixel Junk still has a MP store, none of the items in it are for furries, so why the connection? Also THAT IS KEYWORD SPAM!!! It has NOTHING to do with the item in question. 

1 hour ago, Nama Gearz said:

Back to that point of me thinking you don't know how keywords work; all the stuff you have bolded are legitimate search terms. Honestly, the best way for people to be able to find something you want them to find is to list as many variations of that word as you can so you can cover as many things people might think to type in. It's just common sense to want to be as fool proof as possible when trying to assure people will find your items in search, this includes abbreviations to store names. It's unfortunate that it may also mean something else, but am I not allowed to have my shop name in my keywords because it's "Static" and could bring up TVs or radios? Not really a fair way to look at this.

No, they aren't. If an item is a tube sock, that is an appropriate keyword. Leggings are different. You can say i have no idea what I'm talking about but there have been hundreds of threads about this over the years and LL has said point blank what is and isn't spam. You store name does not belong in the keywords as it states in the listing guidelines. I posted the link, try reading it. No having your store name in keywords skews searches. If you store name is Susies gestures and i am searching for a specif gesture, guess what, you whole freaking store will show up if you use it as a keyword.. 

1 hour ago, Nama Gearz said:

Keyword spam would be if you were selling hotdog meshes and put football into your keywords because people eat hotdogs at football games. Not when you're trying to sell tube socks and say leggings.

Tube socks aren't leggings.. 

 

[Jules Catlyn]

31 minutes ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

Tube socks aren't leggings.. 

And leggings aren't pants. I can't stress that enough!!

[Drake1 Nightfire]

1 hour ago, Jules Catlyn said:

And leggings aren't pants. I can't stress that enough!!

Aint that the truth... I can tell you the number of freshmen coming out of my daughters school wearing semi-see through leggings as pants... SMH.