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1 hour ago, Phorumities said:

drop their pants and take a look.

if they identify with whats down there, they are cis,  if they don't, they are trans.

Thats all there is.

While its true some some people are born with ambiguous genetalia, i would guess the vast majority of trans people have normal genetalia. When their mind doesn't match their body is where the term "trans sexual" comes from

Hogwash.

 

ETA...

What I wrote there accurately expressed/expresses my opinion of your post, but in addition to being pretty rude is not at all helpful to the discussion. Having considered the subject I thought I'd come back and try to be more calm and collected. 

It's a given that every non-sourced post in a forum like this is purely the poster's opinion. Even so, when you make statements such as the one I quoted you should really take pains to point out in the post that what you are saying is your personal opinion only; the "...I would guess..." covered only the one phrase, not the whole post.

Without that being done it appears you are speaking from a position of personal knowledge. Quite frankly, on this particular subject you don't have a clue.

Edited by Dillon Levenque
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41 minutes ago, chibiusa Ling said:

I don't think Phorumites is being hateful, if anything quite the opposite. She has stated on several occasions that she supports who you are and your right to be who you are.

I support who you are, and your right to be who you are, but you REALLY don't exist......is hateful.

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6 minutes ago, AyelaNewLife said:

And dismantling reasonable assumptions takes time and patience, and the use of reason and research. What has never and will never work is browbeating people into submission. 

Agreed.

And we must be patient because the ability to reason is another one of those spectrum things!

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6 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I support who you are, and your right to be who you are, but you REALLY don't exist......is hateful.

Hey! Good to see you. I’m trying to be good. I support the OP.

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I think I may want to say something, while all arguments are valid here, and there are some really great opinions, and ideas being thrown around. I want to point out one thing, not all trans people want to be validated. I know myself, I just want to be who I am, and be happy about it. Which I am, I would rather self-validate myself, and not care what others think around me. Now that could be a big problem, but that is how I see the world. As for oppression, never once, have I felt oppressed or victimized. If I get people who are idiots, I just turn around and walk away. It's as simple as that. What I am trying to say, is they don't want the label of trans. They just want to be identified, as the gender, they feel they are. So I am a man transitioning to a woman,  I don't want the arbitrary label of being called trans. I just want to be called a woman. 

 

Edited by halebore Aeon
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1 minute ago, Love Zhaoying said:
8 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I support who you are, and your right to be who you are, but you REALLY don't exist......is hateful.

Hey! Good to see you. I’m trying to be good. I support the OP.

Good to see you :)

I should probably read the other pages on this thread ...lol

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6 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I support who you are, and your right to be who you are, but you REALLY don't exist......is hateful.

My belief in Hanlon's Razor relegates hatred to second place.

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3 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Hey! Good to see you. I’m trying to be good. I support the OP.

To be honest, this is probably the most calm and reasonable discussion on this topic I've ever had on the internet. It is so, so easy for this to turn nasty fast. And we're 9 pages in and it's stayed polite, if a little warm at times. So thanks for that.

Edit: Not just aimed at you, but everyone else commenting too

Edited by AyelaNewLife
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3 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

My belief in Hanlon's Razor relegates hatred to second place.

Oh Madelaine, now you're making me look up words!

But I might be able to glean some of what you're saying.....perhaps there is a gradation denoting when stupidity/ignorance should be judged as hateful..

Edited by Luna Bliss
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14 minutes ago, halebore Aeon said:

I think I may want to say something, while all arguments are valid here, and there are some really great opinions, and ideas being thrown around. I want to point out one thing, not all trans people want to be validated. I know myself, I just want to be who I am, and be happy about it. Which I am, I would rather self-validate myself, and not care what others think around me. Now that could be a big problem, but that is how I see the world. As for oppression, never once, have I felt oppressed or victimized. If I get people who are idiots, I just turn around and walk away. It's as simple as that.

I feel no need to out my wannabe lesbian status in RL. It was sufficient to divorce my ex-hubby so he could pursue growing a family. I have no intention of pursuing another life partner, so there's no need for validation of my sexual preference and I can easily avoid idiots* by just getting along.

However, it's not always possible to avoid idiots*, particularly if they craft laws to suppress your ability to be who you are, or enjoy the companionship of those you love. The question is how best to improve your future. I'm not sufficiently versed in the history of causes, but my gut tells me that the confrontational approach is less productive than simply being... nefarious**.

* sometimes a synonym for people who disagree with you
** My use of "nefarious" is not quite as the dictionary defines it, but the temptation is ever present ;-).

Edited by Madelaine McMasters
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I'm impressed, I didn't get attacked.. I didn't get an answer, but at least no one tore me a new one..  I count that as a win.. 

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1 minute ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

I'm impressed, I didn't get attacked.. I didn't get an answer, but at least no one tore me a new one..  I count that as a win.. 

The magic of toasters.

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10 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Oh Madelaine, now you're making me look up words!

But I might be able to glean some of what you're saying.....perhaps there is a gradation denoting when stupidity/ignorance should be judged as hateful..

Unless you narrow the scope sufficiently, almost everything has gradations. Heisenberg opened that Pandora's box long ago, by not opening it.

Remember that judgments of hatred/stupidity/ignorance are made by people who are also subject to Hanlon's Razor.

One of these days, I fear the lot of you will rise up and realize that, over my years in the forum I've said approximately... nothing.

That's Imposter Syndrome.

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21 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

My belief in Hanlon's Razor relegates hatred to second place.

That knowledge (of HR) makes me look at recent events in a whole new light. 

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1 minute ago, halebore Aeon said:

That picture made me think of that Cartoon movie. The Brave Little Toaster.

One of my favorite childhood movies! But it reminded me more of a screen saver my father had on his computer in the early 90s, which had toasters flying with tiny white wings (this avatar has the option to fly with wings, if I remember it correctly).

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13 minutes ago, Syo Emerald said:

One of my favorite childhood movies! But it reminded me more of a screen saver my father had on his computer in the early 90s, which had toasters flying with tiny white wings (this avatar has the option to fly with wings, if I remember it correctly).

That brings back memories. I once had a toaster that threw slices into the air. I wish I'd kept it. I intend to purchase a simple toaster some day and modify it to relive the experience of turning the kitchen upside down in search of my toast.

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We're all fighting something in life, some of us multiple things. Many of us have felt bullied due to something that makes us different from the majority. I get it. We should stand up for ourselves when we feel that someone is being toxic to us. Sometimes, the easiest thing is to ignore them. Sometimes, we need to do more than that. Yet, we can't force others to see things the way that we see them. That will never happen. Regardless if it has to do with gender identity, politics, disabilities, etc. 

We can't make everyone happy and everyone can't make us happy. Find your happiness within. The world is a cruel place, it can make us jaded, but despite that, there are still many happy people. Be one of them. ?

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2 hours ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

That brings back memories. I once had a toaster that threw slices into the air. I wish I'd kept it. I intend to purchase a simple toaster some day and modify it to relive the experience of turning the kitchen upside down in search of my toast.

   I feel nearly certain you have spackle, in case of accidental ceiling damage.

   I recall you mentioning that toaster before. In fact, it's what sparked an evolving story idea for me , into which I am still putting words. I love words.

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4 minutes ago, Ivanova Shostakovich said:

   I feel nearly certain you have spackle, in case of accidental ceiling damage.

   I recall you mentioning that toaster before. In fact, it's what sparked an evolving story idea for me , into which I am still putting words. I love words.

That toaster was one more lesson in the upside of downside. At the time, I didn't realize the value of the story it generated. I want other people to have that experience.

My current toaster is four-slice. I might replace it with another four-slice, modifying the second pair of slots for flinging. Then, when feeding and entertaining guests, I can easily switch from "feed" to "entertain".

I look forward to your story, Iva!

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3 hours ago, LexxiXhan said:

I sincerely hope you don't go round demanding to know what people have in their pants!

And even medical professionals acknowledge that genitals aren't a fool-proof indicator of physical sex, let alone gender. Around 1.7% of the population are intersex via a variety of traits, some of which often go undiscovered unless the person just happens to have medical treatment for something else that reveals it (ie, requiring endocrinology).

That term is outdated and even then, it doesn't mean what you say it does. It was used to specifically to refer to people who'd undergone surgery to match their body to their gender identity. Not every trans person chooses to do this.

looks up trans sexual. It means some one whos perception of their gender is different from their physical body. Sexual reassignment surgery has nothing to do with it.

If primary sexual charactoristics are not proof of physical gender, then what is? Feelings?

 

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2 hours ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

I'm impressed, I didn't get attacked.. I didn't get an answer, but at least no one tore me a new one..  I count that as a win.. 

thats because everyone has you on ignore ?

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3 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

I support who you are, and your right to be who you are, but you REALLY don't exist......is hateful.

She never said "you REALLY don't exist".  She said that she does not believe there is anything other than 2 genders. 

Exaggerating someone's post is no way to discuss topics or reply to things.

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3 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:
3 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Hey! Good to see you. I’m trying to be good. I support the OP.

Good to see you :)

I should probably read the other pages on this thread ...lol

You two should get a room  B|

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