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1 minute ago, halebore Aeon said:
4 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

That's true, but it occurred to me that the reason most can't comprehend gender fluidity is because they don't realize their gender has been, in part, created by conditioning. It all happened on a (mostly) unconscious level growing up.

What conditioning, I get colour and toys, but how about those things that we have, like animals. Instincts? Like a mans, natural instinct is to protect and provide. while a woman's is to nurture. I am not being sexist, but this has been like this since humans first arrived. Women naturally tend to nurture and protect their newborn baby, and men do the same. That has not been conditioned at all.

I think there's a lot of social conditioning -- expectations we are taught throughout childhood and even adulthood related to how a man or woman should act.

To explain further, Halebore, I think gender fluid people have more awareness of the complexities of gender because things just didn't fit for them...so they explored it. Those who pretty much sailed along feeling okay about their gender never processed it much, hence our inability to understand a gender-fluid person initially.

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5 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I think there's a lot of social conditioning -- expectations we are taught throughout childhood and even adulthood related to how a man or woman should act.

To explain further, Halebore, I think gender fluid people have more awareness of the complexities of gender because things just didn't fit for them...so they explored it. Those who pretty much sailed along feeling okay about their gender never processed it much, hence our inability to understand a gender-fluid person initially.

But what is there to understand, the definition changes a lot? Could you elaborate, on gender being fluid, please?  To my understanding, it means one who doesn't identify as either gender. But with the way things are, and things rapidly changing, I am very confused, myself. 

 

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9 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

But I also realize that the reason some can't see your point of view is because it brings up stuff about ourselves...emotional/psychological stuff we haven't processed. Most people aren't aware how they've been mostly socialized into being male/female.

Luna, I totally agree. People who are trans, gay, lesbian, bi etc have often gone through a great deal of introspection and exploration that cis or straight people just don't need to. I understand that that's uncomfortable, even repellant, for those who have no need to put themselves through that, but some of us have no choice. But we're still their brothers, sisters, cousins, close friends, children and so on. We're still actual real people with as much validity as anyone else.

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4 minutes ago, LexxiXhan said:

Luna, I totally agree. People who are trans, gay, lesbian, bi etc have often gone through a great deal of introspection and exploration that cis or straight people just don't need to. I understand that that's uncomfortable, even repellant, for those who have no need to put themselves through that, but some of us have no choice. But we're still their brothers, sisters, cousins, close friends, children and so on. We're still actual real people with as much validity as anyone else.

We are not invalidating you, as a person, or how you feel. We just want to understand you. I am trans too, and I don't understand half of this. So can someone please elaborate?

Edited by halebore Aeon

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2 minutes ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

Love, you do realize the "he" @halebore Aeon is referring to is me, right? 

I do, and I also read all your posts, you seemed to be supportive, and understanding. Which I highly respect.

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2 minutes ago, halebore Aeon said:

We are not invalidating you, as a person, or how you feel. We just want to understand you.

I am trans too, and I don't understand half of this. So can someone please elaborate?

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1 minute ago, halebore Aeon said:

I do, and I also read all your posts, you seemed to be supportive, and understanding. Which I highly respect.

/me chuckles, i was actually talking to Love, not you, but thanks for the help!

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Just now, Drake1 Nightfire said:

/me chuckles, i was actually talking to Love, not you, but thanks for the help!

No problem, Lol.

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7 minutes ago, LexxiXhan said:

Luna, I totally agree. People who are trans, gay, lesbian, bi etc have often gone through a great deal of introspection and exploration that cis or straight people just don't need to. I understand that that's uncomfortable, even repellant, for those who have no need to put themselves through that, but some of us have no choice. But we're still their brothers, sisters, cousins, close friends, children and so on. We're still actual real people with as much validity as anyone else.

Yes of course, you are still "actual real people with as much validity as anyone else".

And you bring up an interesting point for me to ponder -- why are some people repulsed by the exploration while for others it's interesting and even amazing?

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2 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Yes of course, you are still "actual real people with as much validity as anyone else".

And you bring up an interesting point for me to ponder -- why are some people repulsed by the exploration while for others it's interesting and even amazing?

I don't think people are actually repulsed, as we all explored ourselves, as a teenager. I think, they just like most of the people in this thread, are just wanting people to elaborate.

Edited by halebore Aeon
Mispelled word.
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10 minutes ago, halebore Aeon said:

But what is there to understand, the definition changes a lot? Could you elaborate, on gender being fluid, please?

I'm not sure I can really...I imagine many on this thread understand this concept better.

For me, personally, I just accept however people experience themselves. I do remember years ago when I was puzzled more about it...when I was beginning to discover that the concepts I had about reality weren't necessarily the truth..

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2 minutes ago, halebore Aeon said:
4 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Yes of course, you are still "actual real people with as much validity as anyone else".

And you bring up an interesting point for me to ponder -- why are some people repulsed by the exploration while for others it's interesting and even amazing?

I don't think people are actually repulsed, as we all explored ourselves, as a teenager. I think, they just like most of the people in this thread, are just wanting people to elaborate.

Some are...I was mainly just using Lexxi's words:

"I understand that that's uncomfortable, even repellant, for those who have no need to put themselves through that..."

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1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said:

I'm not sure I can really...I imagine many on this thread understand this concept better.

For me, personally, I just accept however people experience themselves. I do remember years ago when I was puzzled more about it...when I was beginning to discover that the concepts I had about reality weren't necessarily the truth..

But to accept, one must understand, and know what they are accepting. Accepting blindly, with lack of knowledge, makes no sense.

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1 minute ago, halebore Aeon said:
2 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I'm not sure I can really...I imagine many on this thread understand this concept better.

For me, personally, I just accept however people experience themselves. I do remember years ago when I was puzzled more about it...when I was beginning to discover that the concepts I had about reality weren't necessarily the truth..

But to accept, one must understand, and know what they are accepting. Accepting blindly, with lack of knowledge, makes no sense.

It makes sense to me, as I don't believe I have the right to not accept how someone experiences themselves..

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2 minutes ago, halebore Aeon said:

But to accept, one must understand, and know what they are accepting. Accepting blindly, with lack of knowledge, makes no sense.

I disagree, I think you should accept people for who they are, even if you do not understand.

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Just now, Luna Bliss said:

It makes sense to me, as I don't believe I have the right to not accept how someone experiences themselves..

Okay, well a lot of humans are naturally wary, at something they don't understand. So it's hard to accept, if you have no idea, what it is. It's like, would you sign a contract, without reading the fine print? I wouldn't, I would want to know, what I was getting myself into.

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6 minutes ago, halebore Aeon said:

Could you elaborate, on gender being fluid, please?  To my understanding, it means one who doesn't identify as either gender.

I'll give it a go, but please understand that it is only my explanation based on my lived experience.

There're a wide range of nonbinary gender identities, for starters. Genderfluid is just one of them.

For me, I go through phases of being male, female, agender and bigender. At times, each has been for anything from hours to months at a time. You could think of it a bit like a sailing ship having no control over the state of the seas it travels. However, over time, I've felt more stable (or maybe I just earned my sea legs). I've had binary trans friends suggest that genderfluid people always end up binary trans in the end. Personally, I don't mind if that's the way things turn out, but I understand that other genderfluid people find that unsupportive.

I hope that gives a little insight. If you have questions, I'm happy to answer them one at a time at my own pace.

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2 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I disagree, I think you should accept people for who they are, even if you do not understand.

You can try to be understanding, and try to be able to just let them be, who they are. But that is not really accepting, that is more, live and let live.

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2 minutes ago, LexxiXhan said:

I'll give it a go, but please understand that it is only my explanation based on my lived experience.

There're a wide range of nonbinary gender identities, for starters. Genderfluid is just one of them.

For me, I go through phases of being male, female, agender and bigender. At times, each has been for anything from hours to months at a time. You could think of it a bit like a sailing ship having no control over the state of the seas it travels. However, over time, I've felt more stable (or maybe I just earned my sea legs). I've had binary trans friends suggest that genderfluid people always end up binary trans in the end. Personally, I don't mind if that's the way things turn out, but I understand that other genderfluid people find that unsupportive.

I hope that gives a little insight. If you have questions, I'm happy to answer them one at a time at my own pace.

But isn't how you feel, based more on the brain, than biology? Like biologically, I'm a male, neurologically, I identify as a female. Feelings and emotions are all in your brain, experiences too. 

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11 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

And you bring up an interesting point for me to ponder -- why are some people repulsed by the exploration while for others it's interesting and even amazing?

just my take - some people are more heavily invested in their societally-accepted identity. I'm thinking of those who are more reliant on men being men and women being women and having those roles compliment each other..

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1 minute ago, LexxiXhan said:

just my take - some people are more heavily invested in their societally-accepted identity. I'm thinking of those who are more reliant on men being men and women being women and having those roles compliment each other..

But isn't that okay, for people to be like that, just like it's okay for you to identify, how you want?

Edited by halebore Aeon
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10 minutes ago, halebore Aeon said:

But to accept, one must understand, and know what they are accepting. Accepting blindly, with lack of knowledge, makes no sense.

There's an awful lot that we accept about the world we live in, without really understanding it, if you think about it...

 

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5 minutes ago, halebore Aeon said:

You can try to be understanding, and try to be able to just let them be, who they are. But that is not really accepting, that is more, live and let live.

Then we believe differently, and that’s ok!

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