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1 hour ago, halebore Aeon said:

They already did figure out, that being gay is genetic, and not environmental as we so thought. So yes, there is an actual gay gene, but the only way to "Get rid" of it, is to edit it out, while in utero.  

Studies are inconclusive:

https://www.newsweek.com/being-gay-your-dna-scientists-keep-trying-find-genetic-basis-sexual-741084

Edited by Luna Bliss
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1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said:

It certainly isn’t on purpose. I’m avoiding getting into discussions about the OP’s profile, motives, etc. Remember, “attack ideas, not people”. 

How is suggesting that it might help to organise profile information differently an attack on a person? Maybe I'm reading things into the ohers who were also taking that line, but certainly my point of view was that a profile emphasing the OP as a person would help.

I'm really not following you here Love.

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5 minutes ago, Bitsy Buccaneer said:

How is suggesting that it might help to organise profile information differently an attack on a person? Maybe I'm reading things into the ohers who were also taking that line, but certainly my point of view was that a profile emphasing the OP as a person would help.

I'm really not following you here Love.

I did not say it was an “attack”, I only implied it was. One of the moderators said “attack ideas, not people.”  To me, this means “don’t get personal.” The OP took your advice..even though they did not ask for any.  It’s perfectly fine for us to not see this the same way. 

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3 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I did not say it was an “attack”, I only implied it was. One of the moderators said “attack ideas, not people.”  To me, this means “don’t get personal.” The OP took your advice..even though they did not ask for any.  It’s perfectly fine for us to not see this the same way. 

I agree with the principle of what you're saying, 100%, I just disagree about this example.

For me, a profile (or a post in a thread on a certain forum) comes under the "idea" category. Saying "hey I think this thing you wrote is counter-productive to your stated aims, perhaps if you wrote this thing instead you'd achieve your stated aims better?" is fine.

The actions of a person should never be exempt from criticism, regardless of who that person is. The, uh, "person" of a person should be off limits.

(And just to avoid doubt, being trans comes under the "person" category of off limits things.)

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4 minutes ago, AyelaNewLife said:

for me, a profile (or a post in a thread on a certain forum) comes under the "idea" category. Saying "hey I think this thing you wrote is counter-productive to your stated aims, perhaps if you wrote this thing instead you'd achieve your stated aims better?" is fine.

I suppose I don’t disagree. I just don’t make it a habit to curate other’s profiles. 

796F694C-67AE-4561-AD8C-86431F9082FC.jpeg

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Just now, Love Zhaoying said:

I suppose I don’t disagree. I just don’t make it a habit to curate other’s profiles. 

Neither do I normally, but I think I did what half this thread did; and saw one person mention the profile so went to take a look myself.

Sorta like pass-the-parcel, but with profile stalking. And no sweeties at the end.

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It's been discussed repeatedly over the years how women often don't like how men respond to them (generally). When presenting a problem to a man, women just want a little sympathy to start with, before going into solutions for the problem. But the man just starts in trying to solve the problem -- that is the way he shows his concern but for the woman that just doesn't cut it.


I see the beginning of this thread very much demonstrating this dynamic...except the person who might have wanted a little sympathy first is a man, and the people responding non-sympathetically and with only problem-solving responses were women...LOL (Madelaine, Lindal,Ayela).
Go back to the first page, you will see that most everyone who responded first to the OP started solving the problem without giving a bit of sympathy first (the exception being Dillon & Callum).
I can see why the OP became a bit defensive.
 

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5 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

It's been discussed repeatedly over the years how women often don't like how men respond to them (generally). When presenting a problem to a man, women just want a little sympathy to start with, before going into solutions for the problem. But the man just starts in trying to solve the problem -- that is the way he shows his concern but for the woman that just doesn't cut it.

Mars/Venus!

I see another tendency in this thread, some don’t like being disagreed with / told they are wrong, and won’t let it go for anything. The “I didn’t know that” response has morphed into the “that’s not what I believe, so you’re wrong” response. 

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9 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Go back to the first page, you will see that most everyone who responded first to the OP started solving the problem without giving a bit of sympathy first (the exception being Dillon & Callum).

I don’t want to relive that, I’m a different person now!

A5B2BBBD-8DF1-4DE2-8B4D-BFFB273DC7BD.jpeg

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2 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I don’t want to relive that, I’m a different person now!

A5B2BBBD-8DF1-4DE2-8B4D-BFFB273DC7BD.jpeg

lol I forgot you...well my only excuse is that there was no question which side u fell on..

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21 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

When presenting a problem to a man, women just want a little sympathy to start with, before going into solutions for the problem. But the man just starts in trying to solve the problem -- that is the way he shows his concern but for the woman that just doesn't cut it.
 

gender nonsense - it depends on each individuals mindset...

21 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I see the beginning of this thread very much demonstrating this dynamic...except the person who might have wanted a little sympathy first is a man, and the people responding non-sympathetically and with only problem-solving responses were women...LOL (Madelaine, Lindal,Ayela).

I prefer an analytical to an emotional response to subliminal aggression. Yes OP might have wanted sympathy, but aggression is no good way to gain it (well outside the gender equality warrior peer group of course... sadly those feel some short time reliev and happyness when "bashing the establishment", then continue wondering why they gain no ground - here's a secret folks: you actually are loosing grounds with that behaviour).

Edited by Fionalein
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2 minutes ago, Fionalein said:
24 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

When presenting a problem to a man, women just want a little sympathy to start with, before going into solutions for the problem. But the man just starts in trying to solve the problem -- that is the way he shows his concern but for the woman that just doesn't cut it.
 

gender nonsense - it depends on each individuals mindset...

You left out the sentence before the remaining paragraph you quoted....the one with the words OFTEN & GENERALLY.

"It's been discussed repeatedly over the years how women often don't like how men respond to them (generally). "

That's a nasty way to debate, Fionalein.

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1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said:

That's a nasty way to debate, Fionalein.

not again ... get a mirror, Luna

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37 minutes ago, Fionalein said:

I prefer an analytical to an emotional response to subliminal aggression. Yes OP might have wanted sympathy, but aggression is no good way to gain it 

Well, it's more than not giving sympathy that's an issue for me, and my comment was not really about giving an emotional vs an analytical response as you have framed it here.
It's about giving a nod to believing that what a poster is initially expressing could be true, and not immediately searching through an inworld profile in an attempt to discredit them. Proceeding with an assumption of innocence, and requesting information (even in a non-emotional fashion) is more useful in solving the problem and doesn't cause the poster to become defensive. One doesn't have to be for certain all they say is true, but a general expression of believing their experience COULD be true is respectful to the OP.

* The above is the source of what you are labeling 'subliminal aggression', and what I am labeling as justified expression of irritation over being treated disrespectfully.

Edited by Luna Bliss
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40 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

...what I am labeling as justified expression of irritation over being treated disrespectfully.

As a thread opener and profile info? How is expecting to be treated disrespectfully ever justifiying being aggressive to the general puplic? That is what throws you folks back...

You adopt an aggressive stance to begin with and then complain folks are aggressive back at you, - WHOW Luna - they call that a self fulfilling prophecy ;) ... you gain nothing but disdain that way (well and some fellow castouts might flock to your banner due to geek fallacy N° 1 - but remember: castouts make no good allys in getting accepptance by the general public - especially castouts without social skills - those most prone to the fallacy)

Edited by Fionalein

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So, kids, what ya'll learn about the topic is: let's love our fellow human despite their personal choices and let us all be free and respect each other boundaries and act according to the local laws to keep a happy thriving community wherever you leave. ☮️

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Even in most links i see here posted by people trying to prove their argument it is mentioned that gender development psychologically outside of the binary is a disorder. So my question still stands.

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4 minutes ago, Jules Catlyn said:

Even in most links i see here posted by people trying to prove their argument it is mentioned that gender development psychologically outside of the binary is a disorder. So my question still stands.

What’s your question? I don’t see it in any post close above.

Related response: if it (body dysmorphia or whichever) wasn’t categorized as a disorder, it would be even more difficult to get treatment than it already is (therapy, hormones, surgery..). Note that some “disorders” are eventually de-classified (removed from the DSM), as was done for homosexuality..

Kind of like, I can’t get eyedrops for pre-glaucoma without a diagnosis of pre-glaucoma (even if it’s not really pre-glaucoma, just increased eye pressure). 

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14 minutes ago, Fionalein said:
32 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

...what I am labeling as justified expression of irritation over being treated disrespectfully.

As a thread opener and profile info? How is expecting to be treated disrespectfully ever justifiying being aggressive to the general puplic? That is what throws you folks back...

You apopt an aggressive stance to begin with and then complain folks are aggressive back at you, - WHOW Luna - they call that a self fulfilling prophecy ;) ...

By "you folks" do you mean activists who take an active role in obtaining equal rights for all?

Can you tell me what, in the OP's opening paragraph, is aggressive?

Also, if I remember right, you live in the UK and not the US right?

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5 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

It's been discussed repeatedly over the years how women often don't like how men respond to them (generally). When presenting a problem to a man, women just want a little sympathy to start with, before going into solutions for the problem. But the man just starts in trying to solve the problem -- that is the way he shows his concern but for the woman that just doesn't cut it.

Though you did say "often" and not "always", this is the point where the little devil on my shoulders wants to yell "Don't deny my existence!" ;-).

The OP also refers to himself as a man which, by your reckoning, might make my problem solving approach the preferred method, yes? It wasn't. So this might be two data points in contradiction to your supposition. Were I to approach this in the way "women often like", Snugs might accuse of me misogyny and worse yet, not helping.

The OP struck a defensive posture in the opening post, before I arrived, on a topic I was sure would generate sympathy. It was my opinion (and still is) that not exploring that defensiveness would ultimately allow the OP to continue to lose ground in his personal struggle for recognition. It does no good for the cause to generate backlash for things completely unrelated to the cause, nor does it help to see backlash where none may exist. The OP's style of complaint is familiar to me, after eight years here in the forum. Analysis of those complaints has often shown that attitude plays a larger role than the claimed underlying issue. Corollary to "blame the victim" is "blame the public". Both are largely innocent, but the public vastly outnumbers the victims and it's important to remember that.

The OP has modified his profile and admitted (if I'm remembering right, I've not had time to read every post) that the prominence of sexual RP there might confuse the lay public. I hope, and believe, that will help. That was my intent all along. We've all seen people passionate for their causes let that passion work against both themselves and the cause. Some of us approach passion with analysis.

It takes all colors.

 

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I confess I hadn't opened this thread until this morning. I started reading and kept reading most of the morning and only made it as far as page 11. I am one of those from the older generation who really didn't have much knowledge on the subject. Though I have argued with some of my generation that having a knee jerk reaction to the whole idea of gender being different than how we always believed it to be is objectionable. I didn't have evidence to back my response other than this:

On 10/26/2018 at 11:38 AM, Love Zhaoying said:

And most babies with ambiguous genitalia are “corrected” soon after birth..doctor advice or parent choice, no letting the kid grow up to decide.

The evidence of this alone told me that there's more to the biology than we were always taught. I always felt it was completely absurd to just pick a gender, and then assign that gender to the child by way of surgery without any evidence as to the true gender of the child. (I'm not even sure I've used the word gender correctly here. Please bear with me as I learn.) :) 

So, if this is the reality, then who is to say what is right or wrong. And is there even a right or wrong? Why can't we just accept each other how we are and show kindness to all?

So I appreciate the education I've received in these pages and am grateful the thread did not get locked. I will pick it up again where I left off reading after I let my brain rest for a little while.

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1 minute ago, Blush Bravin said:

I confess I hadn't opened this thread until this morning. I started reading and kept reading most of the morning and only made it as far as page 11. I am one of those from the older generation who really didn't have much knowledge on the subject. Though I have argued with some of my generation that having a knee jerk reaction to the whole idea of gender being different than how we always believed it to be is objectionable. I didn't have evidence to back my response other than this:

The evidence of this alone told me that there's more to the biology than we were always taught. I always felt it was completely absurd to just pick a gender, and then assign that gender to the child by way of surgery without any evidence as to the true gender of the child. (I'm not even sure I've used the word gender correctly here. Please bear with me as I learn.) :) 

So, if this is the reality, then who is to say what is right or wrong. And is there even a right or wrong? Why can't we just accept each other how we are and show kindness to all?

So I appreciate the education I've received in these pages and am grateful the thread did not get locked. I will pick it up again where I left off reading after I let my brain rest for a little while.

Excellent, excellent thoughts! 

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