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2 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

Some of those who have asked questions may have ulterior motives, many simply do not and wish merely to understand. It is the unfortunate nature of the Human Mind to be unable to ask the questions it wishes to ask simply because of a lack of information.

There is an unfortunately complex reality of learning to be a Trans ally. That is: some questions are not “ok”. Examples include: “Did you have surgery?” “How am I supposed to tell if they are a man, or a woman?” It is basically none of anyone’s business. 

Some questions are encouraged, such as: “How would you like to be addressed?” “What pronoun do you use”? Many people put their pronouns in email signatures these days, for example “he/his”, or “they/theirs”.

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Instead of editing my above post - since you've already reacted to it Love - I'll just make a new response:

As a bit of full disclosure I am male by birth and predominantly in mindset - there are exceptions. I am Bisexual with a strong leaning to being attracted to females.

Outside of Second Life I do not have the patience to explore my more effeminate side and tendencies nor do I truly have the body to be able to dress in traditionally "female" clothing - let alone the time and patience it would take to rectify this (I look bloody horrible in nylons for example and as far as ever wearing a One Piece bathing suit ... forget it). I am very thankful to live with a few people and have as my significant other (as I prefer to say however, my Mate) someone very supportive of exploring these traits.

My Second Life self somewhat reflects this in its own way actually: The bulk of the avatar forms I have are Male enough to not be mistaken for anything but Male. I do - however - have a small set that actually has been mistaken for being Female and that has been due to their very design. A set of Feline avatars that dress, mostly move and are proportioned in a way that some simply cannot tell whereas some have assumed them to be Female.

I am not Trans and can never wholly understand what Trans people go through. My perspective is simply one of a Male whose body does not match his not entirely Male mind. 

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7 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

There is an unfortunately complex reality of learning to be a Trans ally. That is: some questions are not “ok”. Examples include: “Did you have surgery?” “How am I supposed to tell if they are a man, or a woman?” It is basically none of anyone’s business. 

Some questions are encouraged, such as: “How would you like to be addressed?” “What pronoun do you use”? Many people put their pronouns in email signatures these days, for example “he/his”, or “they/theirs”.

Reality is in and of itself even more complex than that as while some questions may make one uncomfortable ..... There are in truth very few that should be taboo.

Asking if they had surgery is one of those, yes.

Asking how one is to tell if the other is Male, Female or somewhere in between? The answer should always be to pay attention to their speech, mannerisms and such.

We live in a world where many societies place a large emphasis on the external indicators and nowhere near enough on the internal ones. Genetically speaking, the primary data which determines those external attributes in Humans is Binary - no matter how much others may dislike it.

Internally however? That is far more complex and unfortunately cannot be wholly explained using genetics. Not yet anyway. There are certain chemical compounds which can have an effect on how a given person sees their own body or how they express their individuality. To a minor extent social mores also come into play.

To go back to my most recent response for a moment: Externally, thanks to my very genetic makeup I am Male. Internally .... that line is rather blurred and that is in part due to varied chemicals and hormones that were either part of the in utero wash that occurs during development or that result from genetic expression while also my own upbringing played a part.

To shorten that all up a bit for anyone else reading whose eyes may be getting either glassy or red: There are a multitude of factors to consider and by far the most important of these is not the external set brought about by genetic expression - it is the internal set. That is where the fluidity lies. It is part of why people can have vastly different personalities, sexualities and gender expressions.

Simply put: Like it or not there is no easy answer to how one comes by their definition of self, sexuality or gender. We simply cannot - at this time - look solely to genetics and bluntly cannot point at Nature either.

I do apologize if this upsets anyone - this is nothing more than an attempt to be both clinical on this while relating my own, personal information and experience to the topic at hand.

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13 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

The answer should always be to pay attention to their speech, mannerisms and such.

One term normally used is, how they “present”. If someone presents as male, treat them as male and vice-versa. If you can’t tell, simply treat them with respect.

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13 hours ago, Jules Catlyn said:

I have read all 11 pages of this thread and it has been interesting to read about both sides. I have PDD-Nos, an Autism spectrum disorder. Which means i interpret the world and myself differently from other people. This is seen as a DISORDER and as such the consensus is that it needs to be treated. In my case with medication and therapy. This in order for me to conform to every day life so i don't stick out like a sore thumb. If i would just stop my medication and therapy and say sod it, the world will just have to conform to my disorder and the effects of it and if they don't they are *insert any name of choice* it would become a rather "interesting" place.

So my question would be: Why should the world these days conform to a disorder instead of the person having the disorder conform to the world?

We all want and need to be part of a group, and to do that we need to adapt as best we can. Our communities can also meet us halfway and make it easier to adapt, and sometimes they do, when feasible. Maybe we lose a little of ourselves to be part of a community, but it seems to be a sacrifice most of us are willing to make.

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I have always understood it as your brain doesn't coincide with the body you were born with. You may have a male body and are genetically male, but you have a female brain.  The lovely thing about the brain, we have not even touched the surface, of how it works. We only know basic functions, so for all we know, nestled deep in our brains, is a center, that helps with gender identity. And until we identify it, we will always follow biology, not neurology.

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I hope scientists never find a “gay gene” or a “Trans gene”. It would be easy to try and genetically breed us out of existence.

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1 minute ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I hope scientists never find a “gay gene” or a “Trans gene”. It would be easy to try and genetically breed us out of existence.

They already did figure out, that being gay is genetic, and not environmental as we so thought. So yes, there is an actual gay gene, but the only way to "Get rid" of it, is to edit it out, while in utero.  

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To those that say there are only two genders and those saying that the former aren't denying people's existence:

 

Hi, I'm Agender and fall under the Non-binary label. I'm not male  OR female. To say there are only two genders, regardless of "it's just my  opinion" IS denying my existence.  It's imply subtly or not that I'm not what I say I am.  That I'm either lying  or delusional.   You might argue that that "isn't what they intended",  but that is exactly how it reads and  nah, I don't have to accept that. Because that is what bigotry starts off as.

"Opinions" on  how the world truly is,  facts proving otherwise be damned.  and it's how the people that abuse and harass me and others like me get away with it because they just fall back on "it's just how the world is" "just my opinion".

 

So no I don't have to accept it and indeed, I can be quite rightfully angry at not just those that say it. But those that try to silence others because it's "just an opinion".

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2 minutes ago, AylinVali said:

To those that say there are only two genders and those saying that the former aren't denying people's existence:

 

Hi, I'm Agender and fall under the Non-binary label. I'm not male  OR female. To say there are only two genders, regardless of "it's just my  opinion" IS denying my existence.  It's imply subtly or not that I'm not what I say I am.  That I'm either lying  or delusional.   You might argue that that "isn't what they intended",  but that is exactly how it reads and  nah, I don't have to accept that. Because that is what bigotry starts off as.

"Opinions" on  how the world truly is,  facts proving otherwise be damned.  and it's how the people that abuse and harass me and others like me get away with it because they just fall back on "it's just how the world is" "just my opinion".

 

So no I don't have to accept it and indeed, I can be quite rightfully angry at not just those that say it. But those that try to silence others because it's "just an opinion".

Thank you!

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2 minutes ago, AylinVali said:

To those that say there are only two genders and those saying that the former aren't denying people's existence:

 

Hi, I'm Agender and fall under the Non-binary label. I'm not male  OR female. To say there are only two genders, regardless of "it's just my  opinion" IS denying my existence.  It's imply subtly or not that I'm not what I say I am.  That I'm either lying  or delusional.   You might argue that that "isn't what they intended",  but that is exactly how it reads and  nah, I don't have to accept that. Because that is what bigotry starts off as.

"Opinions" on  how the world truly is,  facts proving otherwise be damned.  and it's how the people that abuse and harass me and others like me get away with it because they just fall back on "it's just how the world is" "just my opinion".

 

So no I don't have to accept it and indeed, I can be quite rightfully angry at not just those that say it. But those that try to silence others because it's "just an opinion".

We are not denying your existence, but yes biologically there are only two genders. Now neurologically, we don't know for the fact, that the 2 gender ideal, lines up with the biology. That is to say, that until we actually dig deeper into the brain, we won't know for certain. 

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4 hours ago, OfDragonFire said:

My body has caused me distress, more than I could put into words, but that does not mean my body is any less male because it does not fit society's standards for maleness. I am a man because that is what I am, that is what I've always been. What we associate with gender is learned, through years and years and years of socialization, and we all end up internalizing it - internalizing these harmful ideas of what it means to be a man or what it means to be a woman. Cisgender isn't the ideal, it is merely one way to be. And gender is not determined by what parts you have or how you choose to express yourself, it's determined by who you are on the inside. It's something... innate, to most people. 

What caused me most distress about certain parts of my body was the associations tied to them but the more comfortable I grew with myself and my identity as a man, the more comfortable I became with some of them. My chest, it doesn't cause me distress because it's 'female' - it causes me distress because it isn't me. My front hole? I am more than happy with that part of my body, and most of the dysphoria I experience from it is due to cisnormative and transphobic remarks or ideas.

While you and others might wish that those of us outside your world could accept this blindly, it is much easier said than done.  Much of what we think is based on what we see.  How we perceive what we see is often based on thousands of years of mankind history.  People may eventually get to where you want them, but you cannot get upset with people questioning things that seem contradictory to everything they've always been told.  Especially when it is even contradictory to most of the more recent information on transgender.

We have been told for years now that transgender means you identify as the opposite sex of what your body represents, what your genes indicate.  i.e. One's body appears to be male (has male genitals), but the person's mind says they are female and the person feels the male genitals are wrong -- or vise versa.  You are saying that your body appears to be female and you don't have any problem with those female parts, but yet you are still male.  This contradicts what we have been told, thus the constant questioning as we try to wrap our minds around this new concept.

 

 

2 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

No..I back them because I am a Trans ally. Period. 

There is a big difference between supporting someone and blindly going along.  From what I read in this thread, you will support and back anything the OP says simply because they said they were Trans - period, no questions asked, even if they said that today was Friday.  That is the impression you are giving, IMO.

 

 

38 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

One term normally used is, how they “present”. If someone presents as male, treat them as male and vice-versa. If you can’t tell, simply treat them with respect.

This is part of what is causing some of confusion.  The OP states they are male, but their forum profile picture here presents as female and they say they are perfectly comfortable with their female genitals.  From most of what I've read and heard about transgender, that is contradictory and confusing to say the least.

 

 

To the OP:  I think your inworld profile is much calmer, without the antagonist feeling as before.  I would like to point out one thing, from a cis point of view:  When I read "boy with a p***y", it sounds like simply the opposite of SheMale, which most think of as a fetish. Thus from my viewpoint, I would expect people to possibly approach you with fulfilling a fetish in mind.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, halebore Aeon said:

We are not denying your existence, but yes biologically there are only two genders. Now neurologically, we don't know for the fact, that the 2 gender ideal, lines up with the biology. That is to say, that until we actually dig deeper into the brain, we won't know for certain. 

Nah, That's not even true biologically because even just googling  "intersex" and  "Abnormal Genitalia" gets you hundred of valid sources showing otherwise. Not to mention all of the Chromosome variations  that can be found even in non intersex people. The human body is not a  piece of code. Nothing  is ever in a strict binary process. Variations  happen both in a micro and macro scale.

 

Also again, but saying there's  only "Two" Is denying my existence.

Edited by AylinVali
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2 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

There is a big difference between supporting someone and blindly going along.  From what I read in this thread, you will support and back anything the OP says simply because they said they were Trans - period, no questions asked, even if they said that today was Friday.  That is the impression you are giving, IMO.

It certainly isn’t on purpose. I’m avoiding getting into discussions about the OP’s profile, motives, etc. Remember, “attack ideas, not people”. 

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Yes, and intersex, is considered a medical condition. But your genetics, are made up of strings of protein, that is the code for building a human being. 

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1 minute ago, AylinVali said:

Also again, but saying there's  only "Two" Is denying my existence.

Nope, saying "I'm neither" is denying your existance ;) Say "I don't feel like either" but you are one, undeniable fact, ...

 

 

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Just now, Fionalein said:

Nope, saying "I'm neither" is denying your existance ;) Say "I don't feel like either" but you are one, undeniable fact, ...

 

 

Nah, and  I'm even planning on getting surgery to remove the most balent.  So no I'm neither, so kindly take your smarmy, condescending attitude and  shove it somewhere else. My identity isn't an debate.

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We are not denying your existence, we are merely saying. That biology is biology, and yes biologically there are two genders. But neurologically, we have no clue, how many gender identities there are.

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6 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

It certainly isn’t on purpose. I’m avoiding getting into discussions about the OP’s profile, motives, etc. Remember, “attack ideas, not people”. 

Pointing out how a person's profile could be in contradiction to how they are expecting to be treated is not necessarily attacking "the person" - depending on how things are worded.

 

 

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1 minute ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Pointing out how a person's profile could be in contradiction to how they are expecting to be treated is not necessarily attacking "the person" - depending on how things are worded.

But bringing it up over, and over, and over..as certain folk did to apparently try and get a response from the OP, starts to look like harassment. I can see that, can you? 

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LOL …."weewee hoohoo state of consciousness".....

Edited by Luna Bliss

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15 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

“Assigned _____” is preferred terminology..for what the biological gender was assigned at birth. There’s a great cartoon “Assigned Male”, drawn by a Trans woman artist. It talks about the struggles and issues in a positive way.

I wish I hadn't googled it (I generally love webcomics). Nothing about this was positive at all (uncited claims all over the place, mary-sue-self-insert writing, rejection of science...).

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