Love Zhaoying Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 8 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: The real "answer" is education, in the schools, but also discussion about the issues in public venues (of which this forum is a tiny but not entirely insignificant example). Amen! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShereeHoneyflower Posted October 24, 2018 Author Share Posted October 24, 2018 It's disconcerting to see people who cannot tell the difference between a sexual fetish and racial politics where one believes they're are genuinely superior. For the person who called me a bigot, I was using Bull rp as an example but you selectively quoted to push your lies and racial hatred. If this is America's thinking, then I want to see America fall for good. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garnet Psaltery Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 6 minutes ago, LifeOfSheree said: If this is America's thinking, then I want to see America fall for good. Really? What would you consider a safe place to go if it did? Where in the world would be sufficiently on message for you? Anyway I thought East Asians had the claim to superiority, going by IQ tests. Am I bothered? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skell Dagger Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 12 minutes ago, LifeOfSheree said: If this is America's thinking, then I want to see America fall for good. The Second Life forums are not America. Klytyna is British. (So, for that matter, am I. Should I get the sandbags ready and dig myself a shelter, ready for the Fall of the United Kingdom?) 2 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klytyna Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 (edited) 17 minutes ago, LifeOfSheree said: For the person who called me a bigot, I was using Bull rp as an example You used it as an example of "OK because its sexual RP", before claimingthat the reverse situation was obviously "Racists spreading tidal waves of hate". I quoted your own words, and commented on them, thats how replies to threads work, if you are unused to how a forum operates, please RTFM. 17 minutes ago, LifeOfSheree said: but you selectively quoted to push your lies and racial hatred Ah.... I see.... I point out that you are flaunting your "politically correct" attitudes, in an "It's ok to be a racist as long as the targets are white" manner, and give a very genuine example of another white hating racist, right here on our forums. And pointing out that racism is not ok if it's in a particular direction, apparently makes me a racist and a liar. You also claimed you were not bringing YOUR politics into the forums, but you are. You need to check your facts, next thing you'll be accusing me of hating LGBT's because I haven't posted demands that "slave girls for Masters" groups are obviously "sexual discrimination" but that fin-domme groups are ok because they are just RP... I'm really, really, looking forward to you being careless enough to tell me I hate Lesbians and the D/s scene. No, really. Oh and for the record I'm not an American, nor have I any wish to become one. Edited October 24, 2018 by Klytyna 3 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShereeHoneyflower Posted October 24, 2018 Author Share Posted October 24, 2018 9 minutes ago, Klytyna said: You used it as an example of "OK because its sexual RP", before claimingthat the reverse situation was obviously "Racists spreading tidal waves of hate". I quoted your own words, and commented on them, thats how replies to threads work, if you are unused to how a forum operates, please RTFM. Ah.... I see.... I point out that you are flaunting your "politically correct" attitudes, in an "It's ok to be a racist as long as the targets are white" manner, and give a very genuine example of another white hating racist, right here on our forums. And pointing out that racism is not ok if it's in a particular direction, apparently makes me a racist and a liar. You also claimed you were not bringing YOUR politics into the forums, but you are. You need to check your facts, next thing you'll be accusing me of hating LGBT's because I haven't posted demands that "slave girls for Masters" groups are obviously "sexual discrimination" but that fin-domme groups are ok because they are just RP... I'm really, really, looking forward to you being careless enough to tell me I hate Lesbians and the D/s scene. No, really. Oh and for the record I'm not an American, nor have I any wish to become one. No, you're a dishonest person is all. Bull rp and vice versa is one thing. The information in the group profile I shared is not sexual fetish but the ideology of racial supremacism. That is your dishonesty or inability to comprehend in your projection. And seeking to bait me for my sexual identity does reveal all I need to know about you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 23 minutes ago, LifeOfSheree said: It's disconcerting to see people who cannot tell the difference between a sexual fetish and racial politics where one believes they're are genuinely superior. Well, can you demonstrate that this group (which I haven't identified: was a link or pic removed from the OP?) isn't just about sexual fetishism, but is actually about racial politics? More disconcerting, to my mind, is the prevalence of responses here built upon false equivalency. All reasonable and intelligent people can agree that any kind of bigotry based upon race, ethnicity, gender, disability, etc. is an evil. At a core level, it doesn't matter whether it's a black person hating all whites, or a white person hating all blacks (and I could come up, obviously, with dozens of other examples). Both are wrong-minded, ignorant, and dangerous attitudes. BUT . . . to say that all form of racial bigotry is evil is not the equivalent of saying that they are all "the same." Racism against blacks is quantifiably different because America (and the rest of the West for that matter) has a long history of systemic racism (slavery, colonialism, Jim Crow, and so forth) directed against blacks. And those systemic inequalities, however much they may have improved, are still there: whites still hold a disproportionate amount of the wealth and power. So the context of representations of black slavery by whites is very different than in the reverse case. A depiction of white slaves controlled by blacks subverts the real history, and ongoing inequalities, of black-white relations (albeit in a way that I find distasteful and counterproductive), while the reverse tends, if only by implication, to support and uphold it. Again, both are nasty, ignorant, and evil. But their effects are different because of that context. However, this really doesn't address the issue of "what to do about it" in SL. The answer, as I've already suggested, is precisely what you are doing now: expose it, discuss it, analyse it, refute it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 6 hours ago, LifeOfSheree said: It was brought to my attention within Second Life circles on Facebook that there is a group involving a role play group for black slavery set on American principles. There are role play groups which are racially mixed with on in control over the other as a sexual fetish which is fine by me. It's not for me however many people do have the fetish of bi racial D/s like Bulls where submissive white women submit to black men as a sexual fetish just as there is similar D/s roleplay across the grid. It sounded to me like you were saying the slavery groups were also sexual. Were you talking about 2 different things? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skell Dagger Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: (which I haven't identified: was a link or pic removed from the OP?) The OP posted a screenshot of the group's profile, which included the name of the founder at the top. That screenshot has since been removed by a moderator. Edited October 24, 2018 by Skell Dagger 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klytyna Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 (edited) 25 minutes ago, LifeOfSheree said: And seeking to bait me for my sexual identity does reveal all I need to know about you. And that comment confirms my assessment of you... You started this thread not out of any genuine concern to end all racial discrimination, but to trumpet your own "political correctness" to earn street cred and seem cool. If you had ACTUALLY been a concerned citizen, you might have done me the courtesy of checking my profile, to find out something about who you are talking to, as I bothered to check yours. If you HAD, you'd have discovered that... I'm a Lesbian, into the D'/s scene. If you'd checked my posting history you might have discovered that I've been a lesbian for more than 40 years, and involved with the RL D/s Scene for more than 35 years. You might also have discovered MY replies to the White hating racist, who I mentioned in my earlier reply. and read THEIR racist BS, and their assumption that their RACISM was ok, because it was targeted at white people, for your self. Instead, you simply chose the lazy path and as I correctly predicted... 37 minutes ago, Klytyna said: you'll be accusing me of hating LGBT's Just as in your earlier post you assumed that we're all Americans. Grow up, shut up, file an AR against the group if you are genuinely bothered, move on. You've been here since 2013, I've been here a bit longer, I can't say I've noticed a "tidal wave of racial hatred" in SL, and if such a tidal wave exists, why has it taken you 5 bloody years to find it? Edited October 24, 2018 by Klytyna 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KanryDrago Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 Thankfully I cant be racist as I hate all people equally 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyelaNewLife Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 6 hours ago, LifeOfSheree said: My concern is about Linden Lab having become another space to encourage the normalisation of out dated slavery which is not a sexual fetish but the participation of encourage racial supremacist ideology. It does not matter which why such racial aggression is weighted but that is happening. I do not bring my personal political views into Second Life to influence others. I leave that outside of Second Life. I do not mind political movements having their own private groups where they're not trying to force their ideals upon other people. These two contradict each other. If you don't mind political and ideological movements having their own private space, you should not be complaining about this political/ideological group. So which one is it; are you happy for people to have their own private spaces to discuss their own opinions (even those you disagree with), or do you want to take on the mantle of the thought police? 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionalein Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 Well I have a problem with the whole one race above another wether for kink or not. Kink can be racist... Same goes for gender dominance... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleMe Jewell Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 13 minutes ago, Skell Dagger said: The OP posted a screenshot of the group's profile, which included the name of the founder at the top. That screenshot has since been removed by a moderator. Ahh, now a few more things make sense at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syo Emerald Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 Basic question first: Do you even understand what roleplay is? Second basic question: Is your fearmongering based on anything solid that doesn't come from the famous source of "someone on facebook told me..."? I assume the truthfull answer is probably no, as the second part quickly twirls into some lunatic conspiracy nonesense of racial supremacy and political movement, that secretly is behind all kind of roleplay you do not morally approve off and somehow its all Linden Labs fault and will suddenly be their doom...because reasons. Arduenn is probably right, lets ban porn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KanryDrago Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 9 minutes ago, AyelaNewLife said: These two contradict each other. If you don't mind political and ideological movements having their own private space, you should not be complaining about this political/ideological group. So which one is it; are you happy for people to have their own private spaces to discuss their own opinions (even those you disagree with), or do you want to take on the mantle of the thought police? What she meant of course is that she doesnt mind political and ideological movements that she agrees with having their own private space as do most people who type stuff like that, 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syo Emerald Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 8 minutes ago, AyelaNewLife said: These two contradict each other. If you don't mind political and ideological movements having their own private space, you should not be complaining about this political/ideological group. So which one is it; are you happy for people to have their own private spaces to discuss their own opinions (even those you disagree with), or do you want to take on the mantle of the thought police? Most peoples tolerance ends closely to the borders of their own political, religious, moral and social views. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyona Su Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 5 minutes ago, Syo Emerald said: Most peoples tolerance ends closely to the borders of their own political, religious, moral and social views. Someone give this person a "Bestest Evar Responz Dis Tred" trophy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 (edited) 9 minutes ago, KanryDrago said: What she meant of course is that she doesnt mind political and ideological movements that she agrees with having their own private space as do most people who type stuff like that, A genuine question, Kanry -- and I truly ask that you not read this as a mere provocation: I honestly want to know . . . where would you draw the line? Would you enforce a limit anywhere, or is anything permissible, because it's all one or another form of RP? Examples might include, most obviously, sexualized age p**y, or a holocaust sim where you get to rape and murder the inmates? Representations of KKK lynchings? These are deliberately extreme examples, of course. I'm not trying to "call you out" here; I am genuinely curious as to whether there are no "limits," and how we establish what those are. That seems to me a key question. And I don't have an answer for it. Edited October 24, 2018 by Scylla Rhiadra Because forum censorship Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethelwine Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 27 minutes ago, LifeOfSheree said: No, you're a dishonest person is all. Bull rp and vice versa is one thing. The information in the group profile I shared is not sexual fetish but the ideology of racial supremacism. That is your dishonesty or inability to comprehend in your projection. And seeking to bait me for my sexual identity does reveal all I need to know about you. I am actually a bit confused about the OP and what it is that is being objected to, it is a tricky subject and very easy when trying to be open to sound muddled, which I think has perhaps happened, and that I will probably ably demonstrate trying to make a couple of points.... On topics like this I recall my initial reaction to finding out there was a roleplay venue for 1930s Berlin. My immediate thought was why would anyone do that? It sounds like people playing out the formation of Naziism. But the more I found out about it the more I realised that despite the historical context the motive and the way it is run is quite contrary to my initial concern. I am not saying there is a parallel here, but roleplaying in a particular historical context like any storytelling can have good or bad motivations. I sometimes think it would be nice if everyone was just nice to one another, television had no depictions of violence or negativity. But my parents, lovely caring people love their detective series in book form and on TV, stories around drugs, rapes murder, infidelities. Hospital dramas about diseases, traumas disastrous accidents. We are coming up to halloween where behind the sickly candies and even the remembrances of saints, loved ones and dearly departed is also about death and horror and the way we deal with that. The fact is we collectively as human beings like our horror stories, we like to challenge the comfortable mundanity of our lives with stories of adventure, thrills, tragedies and fears. That roleplay in secondlife reflects this should be no surprise or particular concern. What matters with this particular group is their motive for the roleplay. As I think Innula before me has outlined the point it becomes concerning is where it goes beyond storytelling, beyond fantasy and moves into a political movement.. It is at the point it becomes a political movement and not before that is really the only place a line can be drawn in the sand. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KanryDrago Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 4 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: A genuine question, Kanry -- and I truly ask that you not read this as a mere provocation: I honestly want to know . . . where would you draw the line? Would you enforce a limit anywhere, or is anything permissible, because it's all one or another form of RP? Examples might include, most obviously, sexualized age p**y, or a holocaust sim where you get to rape and murder the inmates? Representations of KKK lynchings? These are deliberately extreme examples, of course. I'm not trying to "call you out" here; I am genuinely curious as to whether there are no "limits," and how we establish what those are. That seems to me a key question. And I don't have an answer for it. Turning the question around first of all Should people be allowed to write novels around those subjects? As people do and even make films on the same subjects such as Mississipi burning then I would ask what you see the difference as. Both are fiction. Personally while I find most of them repugnant I wouldn't call for a ban on them. If they aren't against TOS. The reason is simple. You don't stop these people thinking like that and no platforming really doesnt change any minds. However when you let them expose themselves to scrutiny people start to point and laugh which does more to disrupt them than anything. A good example from the UK was the British National Party, a fairly racist lot. They for years were no platformed and got to the point where they had elected MEP's. Then question time (a main stream political program) allowed their leader on against all those shouting that they shouldn't give them publicity. End result was the collapse of the BNP as people got to see what an utter tit the guy and his party were 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innula Zenovka Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 37 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: Well, can you demonstrate that this group (which I haven't identified: was a link or pic removed from the OP?) isn't just about sexual fetishism, but is actually about racial politics? I think the problem is that this kind of group -- there are several, one of which was based near our store when my business partner had one on Zindra -- is that the sexual fetishism is based on some pretty objectionable racial and sexual stereotypes (think "brutal black men with enormous genitalia and the blond *****s who love them" -- the forum software inserted the ****, not me). So the argument, I take it, is that the sexual fetishism is based on a particular racial and sexual politics (which was, in another incarnation, part of the excuse for mass lynchings in the first half of the last century). It's a bit like Nazi-chic -- you can't separate the fetish from the ideology. I can't say I share your confidence that education is the answer to such problems -- to my mind, people who enjoy this sort of thing already know full well what's behind it, because that's a big part of the enjoyment. Other than trying to keep political power of the hands of such people, or, in many places to wrest it from their hands, I don't know there is a solution. However, I think it's very important to remember that it's not always necessarily a good idea to ban behaviour simply because we disapprove of it, so long as it is not causing problems for people who simply want to get on with their (first or second) lives. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phorumities Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 1 hour ago, LifeOfSheree said: It's disconcerting to see people who cannot tell the difference between a sexual fetish and racial politics where one believes they're are genuinely superior. For the person who called me a bigot, I was using Bull rp as an example but you selectively quoted to push your lies and racial hatred. If this is America's thinking, then I want to see America fall for good. gawd another America basher, will my work never be done? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innula Zenovka Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 6 minutes ago, KanryDrago said: A good example from the UK was the British National Party, a fairly racist lot. They for years were no platformed and got to the point where they had elected MEP's. Then question time (a main stream political program) allowed their leader on against all those shouting that they shouldn't give them publicity. End result was the collapse of the BNP as people got to see what an utter tit the guy and his party were Sorry, but I think that's not a particularly good analysis of why the BNP failed. To my mind, many of the people who voted for the BNP were people who would normally have voted Labour but were fed up with Labour councils which, because they were in safe Labour areas, didn't bother to do much for their local constituents. They voted BNP not because they agreed with them particularly but because that was the best way to register a protest that would be noticed nationally. The BNP "surge" collapsed after a couple of years, as such surges always do, partly because the BNP started feuding within itself, partly because local Labour parties by and large got the message and councillors started doing more, partly because BNP councillors proved, to a man and woman, to be hopeless, and partly because UKIP (which is now itself collapsing) became the new home for both disenchanted Labour and Conservative supporters). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionalein Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Phorumities said: gawd another America basher, will my work never be done? What's wrong in them lending you a hand? I mean you do a pretty good job - but you know how they say: "The more the merrier!" Edited October 24, 2018 by Fionalein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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