Is SL getting stagnant?

[LittleMe Jewell]

1 hour ago, Hollie Leavitt said:

I first joined SL way back in 2007, was active for a few months, lost interest and left for years. I've only just logged back in over the past week or so. So I guess for me, it has felt stagnant. But I can see so many other members active for so long and obviously, for them, it is far from stagnant.

<snip>

I already anticipate that my post won't get a lot of love since SL forums would be mostly occupied by SL fanatics... so in case I have offended anyone, I'll say sorry in advance 'cause I definitely don't mean to offend.. but just sharing my personal thought, which is in no way intended as an attack on anything SL.

I also came to SL in 2007.  I became mostly inactive sometime in 2010 and only logged on periodically for many years.  I continued to visit the forums, but mush less frequently than before.  I came back full time early last year.   If it gets stagnant for me again, then I'll take another break.  I don't see anything wrong with that.

[Hollie Leavitt]

59 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

Just wanted to let you know, in case you encounter it, don't be too surprised if you run across something in SL that you have seen made for the Sims or have downloaded for your Sims. I have seen one item that I know for a fact was created for the Sims 4 as I have it in my game. I don't know if the person who brought it into SL is the same as the person who made it for the Sims and have no way to know. Just... don't be surprised if you run across some of your DLC Sims stuffs in SL.

I have actually! Made me so happy lol! I am such a Sims geek ?

[Selene Gregoire]

3 minutes ago, Hollie Leavitt said:

I have actually! Made me so happy lol! I am such a Sims geek ?

That makes two of us. Shhhh... don't tell. 

[Nalates Urriah]

On 10/31/2018 at 2:58 PM, Phorumities said:

And yet millions of people IN AMERICA, some right here in this very forum in fact, still think socialism is a wonderful thing that will solve all of our problems.

Big government is never the solution to our problems, it is the CAUSE of our problems

I agree. I blame colleges and the media for the poor economic and history education most American people have. Europeans have an even more biased education in those areas. To see the bias and inability of pro-socialist people, that  think the world could be a utopia, to defend their thinking, point them to Brandon Straka's opening video for #WalkAway (also #RedPill videos are handy for this) and Milton Friedman's slam on socialism with Phil Donahue and ask them to rebut those points or answer Milton's questions to Phil.

The frequent conditioned response from socialists is to respond with some form of the statement 'They are (insert emotionally inspired derogatory adjectives here - hateful ones are better) and they (insert list of pergoritive claims of bias here - demeaning is better).' They can never challenge the ideas with BETTER ideas or counter-historical examples. 

[Nalates Urriah]

On 10/31/2018 at 5:58 PM, Hollie Leavitt said:

...snip...

My personal disappointment (no judgement please!) comes from the feeling that this virtual world is a bit too similar to the real world for my liking in that to have a truly awesome limitless experience, in most cases, it comes at a cost.. which in turn makes it limiting (and also limiting the escape from RL that I was after.. the escape from RL and its constraints). I do acknowledge that there are still plenty to experience without paying a cent... but its limited. And just like the capacity to have or do amazing stuff in RL is available at a cost, the capacity to have or do amazing stuff in SL is available to those who choose to spend. And it's completely fair - people dedicate so much of their time and talent to amazing SL creations. I've just been spoilt as a Sims player for which so many top notch creations are available for free (I'm sure those creators get paid through other means though). And for me, I have arrived at a point of assessing whether it's worthwhile actually spending money on my "second life" instead of spending that money on my real life... I can't seem to justify it. So yes, my freebie experience in SL has become quite boring so I've stopped logging in.

However, in saying that, I'm still around on forums out of sheer admiration and intrigue for the work of so many talented members, and I'm just enjoying all your thoughts and ideas. So I guess my account isn't going anywhere any time soon ?

...I'd also like to add that I have generally found people to be much nicer and more approachable in SL than in RL! Weird huh?

I already anticipate that my post won't get a lot of love since SL forums would be mostly occupied by SL fanatics... so in case I have offended anyone, I'll say sorry in advance 'cause I definitely don't mean to offend.. but just sharing my personal thought, which is in no way intended as an attack on anything SL.

You're thinking and expressing yourself well. That will lead to trouble... ?

As to being similar to RL... I mix agreement and disagreement with your thinking. The RL & SL are similar in that humans are the movers in both RL & SL. Escaping that is difficult. However, I think one's imagination is much freer in SL.

The cost... there is that. It is everywhere. It is a part of human nature and condition that we survive by our labor... personal effort or work. Do something for me and I'll do something for you. Thus, our economy and currencies for efficient bartering of services. Your choice in where to spend your RL dollars sounds practical and thought out. Your choices are then best for you.

Anyone that spends time in SL can turn that time into an income. I think the challenge is in finding something that satisfies your desire for escape and enjoyment. I think SL excels in this area. Yet, it has its limits. I hope you'll keep exploring.

Are SL peeps easier to approach? I find it about the same in RL & SL. So, I'm curious why you think so.

SL fanatics... This seems contradictory to 'approachable'. SL has its share of nuts and jerks. My thinking is most nuts and jerks do not deserve an apology, ever.

[Nalates Urriah]

On 10/31/2018 at 8:49 AM, ChinRey said:

All the Scandinavian countries are based on socialism. Even the right wing parties here would probably have been counted as "socialists" in USA.

GNP per capita in USD in 2015 (according to wikipedia):

...

Poverty rates (no data avaialble for Faeroe Islands)  - percentage of population living on less tha 1.90 USD a day:(The number in the first column is the world ranking - Faeroe Islands is unranked because it doesn't have enough historical data).

...

I'm not saying that the Scandinavian way is the one true way everybody should follow. Different nations face different challenges and need different solutions. But that is my point: Do not generalize!

I know that media,  political propaganda, and government/agency agendas push the idea Nordic countries are socialist. They aren't. They are based on free market economies. Parts of their economy are socialized. Generally devolving healthcare. Read up Search Result Google and DuckDuckGo Results. Or listen to Denmark's PM.

With GDP per capita and poverty rates one has to first normalize the data. The UN and most of the agencies reporting these numbers have an agenda (we are the government and we are great, see). Filter out the agenda bias by looking at the raw data and crunching some numbers. WHO absolutely fudges the numbers by deliberately avoiding normalizing the health stats when providing comparison data for countries with free market healthcare versus nationalized healthcare.

The idea that socialist ideology helps people and improves things is a myth. An excellent example supporting that point is to talk to Russians that immigrated out before 1991 and have returned for a visit... Or ask them about their life in socialist Russia and their fist visit to an American supermarket. 

Milton Friedman best explained the problems of socialism to Phil Donahue and why the free market has lifted more people out of poverty than any other economic system by a gigantic margin. 

We see the free market working in SL. I consider it a significant reason for the vitality of SL. As an example, LL was thinking mesh would be for building things. Some users involved in its development thought it would be mostly for clothes. Users evolved mesh from 'rigged' & standard sizes to Liquid Mesh creating growing market demand for a better way eventually resulting in Fitted Mesh. Users have much more control over SL. That type of user/citizen control is missing in socialist based countries.

[ellestones]

1 hour ago, Nalates Urriah said:

 Milton Friedman's slam on socialism

Milton Freidman was also a proponent of UBI - negative income tax as he puts it - as the most viable way to alleviate poverty in countries that adhere to free market disciplines to generate wealth

[animats]

Quote

My personal disappointment (no judgement please!) comes from the feeling that this virtual world is a bit too similar to the real world for my liking in that to have a truly awesome limitless experience, in most cases, it comes at a cost.. which in turn makes it limiting (and also limiting the escape from RL that I was after.. the escape from RL and its constraints).

That's a useful insight about SL. It was intended to mirror the real world, and in many ways, it does. Things in SL happen at a rate roughly comparable to the real world. Most games run far faster, and have game mechanics to force this, such as the collapsing vortex in Fortnite. In SL, interesting things are about as sparsely distributed as in the real world. Look at the map and see how spread out the green dots are. Contrast this with entertainment media, where the density of interesting things and events is very high.

This is why SL appears boring to many new users. It's like moving to a strange town. What do you do now? There's nothing right in front of you to do. There are things going on, but you have to seek them out.

SL appeals to people who see a vacant lot as an opportunity. This is not most of the online population.

[ChinRey]

2 hours ago, Nalates Urriah said:

I know that media,  political propaganda, and government/agency agendas push the idea Nordic countries are socialist. They aren't. They are based on free market economies. Parts of their economy are socialized. Generally devolving healthcare.

Ummm, I am Norwegian and live in Norway so I have a little bit of personal experience.

It's a lot more than health care, I can tell you that, but a complete list of which parts of the economy is owned and controlled either by the government or by cooperatives would be far too long for a post here.

 

2 hours ago, Nalates Urriah said:

The idea that socialist ideology helps people and improves things is a myth. An excellent example supporting that point is to talk to Russians that immigrated out before 1991 and have returned for a visit... Or ask them about their life in socialist Russia and their fist visit to an American supermarket.

Don't make the common mistake of confusing socialism with communism. Socialism has a much wider scope, is much older and has never been defined and dogmatised in some single book (It has been argued it's loosely based on the new testament and/or the works of the ancient greek philosophers but not really.) Communism is kind'a based on socialism but a very distorted and one-sided view of it, formalised by somebody living under one of the two most rigidly class segregated societies Europe has seen in modern times and usually associated by the other of the two.

We should also be careful not to confuse communism with the Russian way. Russia is a problem and it has problems, no doubt about that. But most of those problems date back to long before the Russian revolution and they persist even today, years after Russia left communism. They are far more due to geographical and deeply rooted cultural conditions than whatever label people choose to give their government at any given time.

 

2 hours ago, Nalates Urriah said:

I know that media,  political propaganda, and government/agency agendas push the idea Nordic countries are socialist.

...

That type of user/citizen control is missing in socialist based countries.

Interesting juxtaposition here. At the beginning of the post you denounce that propaganda and at the very end, you claim it to be true.

Edited November 2, 2018 by ChinRey

[Hollie Leavitt]

4 hours ago, animats said:

That's a useful insight about SL. It was intended to mirror the real world, and in many ways, it does. Things in SL happen at a rate roughly comparable to the real world. Most games run far faster, and have game mechanics to force this, such as the collapsing vortex in Fortnite. In SL, interesting things are about as sparsely distributed as in the real world. Look at the map and see how spread out the green dots are. Contrast this with entertainment media, where the density of interesting things and events is very high.

This is why SL appears boring to many new users. It's like moving to a strange town. What do you do now? There's nothing right in front of you to do. There are things going on, but you have to seek them out.

SL appeals to people who see a vacant lot as an opportunity. This is not most of the online population.

Very, very true.

Edited November 2, 2018 by Hollie Leavitt

[Nalates Urriah]

1 hour ago, ChinRey said:

Ummm, I am Norwegian and live in Norway so I have a little bit of personal experience.

It's a lot more than health care, I can tell you that, but a complete list of which parts of the economy is owned and controlled either by the government or by cooperatives would be far too long for a post here.

That parts of the economy are socialistic does not make the base economy socialism. The free market parts are funding the socialized parts. Huge parts of the economy are funded by Norway’s oil fields of which the government is a 67% owner and providing 20% of the national income. While it is debatable whether the oil company is state controlled (a requirement for socialism) or privately run, the oil is sold into the free market economy. Thus, just on that point, the basis of the economy is free market.

1 hour ago, ChinRey said:

Don't make the common mistake of confusing socialism with communism. Socialism has a much wider scope, is much older and has never been defined and dogmatised in some single book (It has been argued it's loosely based on the new testament and/or the works of the ancient greek philosophers but not really.) Communism is kind'a based on socialism but a very distorted and one-sided view of it, formalised by somebody living under one of the two most rigidly class segregated societies Europe has seen in modern times and usually associated by the other of the two.

We have good working definitions of communism and socialism. Libraries are filled with books describing both. (Amazon 30,000+ books)

Both are well studied and defined. Plus, the definitions have not changed significantly since they were coined. The confusion in regard to what is or isn’t communism or socialism comes from those trying to defend either and needing to avoid being stuck with trying to defend their historic failures by having clear definitions.

2 hours ago, ChinRey said:

We should also be careful not to confuse communism with the Russian way. Russia is a problem and it has problems, no doubt about that. But most of those problems date back to long before the Russian revolution and they persist even today, years after Russia left communism. They are far more due to geographical and deeply rooted cultural conditions than whatever label people choose to give their government at any given time.

Russian government has changed. from basic city-states and feudal time to a full blown communist country where people jokes about the government pretending to pay them and they pretending to work, to the Socialist USSR and now a more free market economy. All the forms and blends of Communism and Socialism were tried and none worked. 1991 is when the change to market economy started. Talk to Russians that left before '91. Ask them about their first experience in an American supermarket.

2 hours ago, ChinRey said:

Interesting juxtaposition here. At the beginning of the post you denounce that propaganda and at the very end, you claim it to be true.

I'm not sure HOW you got that from what I wrote. Maybe elaborate?

[ChinRey]

21 minutes ago, Nalates Urriah said:

I'm not sure HOW you got that from what I wrote. Maybe elaborate?

Socialism isn't about the state ownership, it's about the people ownership. If the state owns everything and doesn't represent the people, that's not socialism it's exactly the opposite. I do know the word is used to describe such regimes but that's just empty propaganda, depriving the word of any meaning. I don't know of any ideology or religion that hasn't been aboused by dictators to justify their actions but a dictatorship is a dictatorship no matter what label you put on it.

Edited November 2, 2018 by ChinRey

[Hollie Leavitt]

8 hours ago, Nalates Urriah said:

You're thinking and expressing yourself well. That will lead to trouble... ?

 

Hehe thanks! ?

 

8 hours ago, Nalates Urriah said:

Are SL peeps easier to approach? I find it about the same in RL & SL. So, I'm curious why you think so.

 

Hm.. when I think about it... perhaps the approachability factor has a lot more to do with me than the actual people. It's probably got a lot to do with me feeling more comfortable, protected and safe behind the mask of an avatar, making it a tad easier to approach someone in SL than in RL. In RL, you're exposed. And perhaps people also feel more at ease being approached in SL because they're behind the mask of their avatar, making them a bit more approachable in SL mode.

In saying that though, I realize I could also be completely off base. Being on another forum (topic being "Lines that annoy you most") made me realize how many different things could tick people off and while there are those obvious ones, sometimes you just never know. You could very well be saying or doing something that in your mind is completely normal, but could be rubbing someone else the wrong way. So I guess that is something that would make me hesitant to approach someone.

And I suppose the likelihood of ticking someone off in SL is more or less the same as that in RL.... just that in SL, it's probably less confronting... chances are, the other person will just ignore your message or teleport away. In RL, you could get anything ranging from a snicker, roll of the eyes, rude tone of voice to.. I dunno... a punch in the face? Has never happened to me though, thank god!... I bruise easy ?
 

8 hours ago, Nalates Urriah said:

SL fanatics... This seems contradictory to 'approachable'. SL has its share of nuts and jerks. My thinking is most nuts and jerks do not deserve an apology, ever.

 

Yeah, agreed. I think with any fanatic, their level of passion can make them quite extreme, and anything can trigger a big reaction, whether it be a positive one or negative.

Nuts and jerks.. deserve nuts and jerks ?

[Nalates Urriah]

11 hours ago, Hollie Leavitt said:

Hm.. when I think about it... perhaps the approachability factor has a lot more to do with me than the actual people. It's probably got a lot to do with me feeling more comfortable, protected and safe behind the mask of an avatar, making it a tad easier to approach someone in SL than in RL. In RL, you're exposed. And perhaps people also feel more at ease being approached in SL because they're behind the mask of their avatar, making them a bit more approachable in SL mode.

In saying that though, I realize I could also be completely off base. Being on another forum (topic being "Lines that annoy you most") made me realize how many different things could tick people off and while there are those obvious ones, sometimes you just never know. You could very well be saying or doing something that in your mind is completely normal, but could be rubbing someone else the wrong way. So I guess that is something that would make me hesitant to approach someone.

And I suppose the likelihood of ticking someone off in SL is more or less the same as that in RL.... just that in SL, it's probably less confronting... chances are, the other person will just ignore your message or teleport away. In RL, you could get anything ranging from a snicker, roll of the eyes, rude tone of voice to.. I dunno... a punch in the face? Has never happened to me though, thank god!... I bruise easy ?

I think about the same... having a mute/block option for RL would be nice.

Thanks for answering.

[Donna Underall]

I read this as "Is SL getting PREGNANT?"

[Fionalein]

20 minutes ago, Donna Underall said:

I read this as "Is SL getting PREGNANT?"

Yeah it is, and it's going to be a SANSAR  !

[Love Zhaoying]

9 minutes ago, Fionalein said:

Yeah it is, and it's going to be a SANSAR  !

Maybe we can put it up for adoption.

[DarkRavenWolfie]

stagnant? maybe no

 

though when you run into too many places where the majority of users are parking/ barely talking anything (like i did too many times)...it can feel a bit discouraging

Edited November 7, 2018 by DarkRavenWolfie

[Donna Underall]

On 11/7/2018 at 12:31 AM, DarkRavenWolfie said:

stagnant? maybe no

 

though when you run into too many places where the majority of users are parking/ barely talking anything (like i did too many times)...it can feel a bit discouraging

There really are some places where people don't speak.  When I find myself in one I almost always go back to one of my favorite fallback places and have a much better time!

[Amanda Crisp]

I think *people* have gotten somewhat limited in their expectations within SL 🙂

More and more, I hear from people who expect to come to SL and be entertained by someone else; which is a shift from ten+ years ago when higher numbers of people came to create content.

SL seems to be mirroring RL in many ways; this is one.

[Fionalein]

33 minutes ago, AmandaKeen said:

I think *people* have gotten somewhat limited in their expectations within SL 🙂

More and more, I hear from people who expect to come to SL and be entertained by someone else; which is a shift from ten+ years ago when higher numbers of people came to create content.

SL seems to be mirroring RL in many ways; this is one.

True, I get weird reactions because I rescript my vehicles - mind you nothing complicated. I just delete the scripts inside and toss other 3rd party scripts inside again... it isn't witchcraft to do this - every person in SL could do so if they wanted.

Edited November 22, 2018 by Fionalein

[LucidiaErsatz]

I always felt that SL is what we take it to be. For me i discovered SL pretty late, joining just about two years ago in 2016.

 

First discovering SL through a YouTube video of a bunch of people 'trolling' around. Even though the context of the video was such, it made me realize that you could just about make anything you wanted to (of course with some limitations  ) as long as possessed the skills to. That made me jump straight into SL and trying to learn such said skills  

 

Ever since then, I have found that there's so much to be done in SL and in fact, I often wish that I had more time so as to explore more aspects of it. The exploring (walking, driving, sailing, flying) although bogged with some issues, is still so much fun. The creating, learning, trying and problem solving although has caused some casualties amongst the hair strands, feels so good at the end. 

 

Maybe its because I'm fairly new and my views might change in the years to come. As of yet I don't find it stagnant and I really like SL (what it lets others bring out). Wished I had discovered this world earlier. 

[LittleMe Jewell]

This thread is on page 4 and every time it pops into my feed, I still read it as "Is SL getting pregnant"

[Cindy Evanier]

1 minute ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

This thread is on page 4 and every time it pops into my feed, I still read it as "Is SL getting pregnant"

Me too ☺️

[Phorumities]

6 hours ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

This thread is on page 4 and every time it pops into my feed, I still read it as "Is SL getting pregnant"

You think that's bad, there's a thread in the about your avatar subform that says "to all genus head users", and  I always read it as genius