Is SL getting stagnant?

[Selene Gregoire]

46 minutes ago, ChinRey said:

All the Scandinavian countries are based on socialism. Even the right wing parties here would probably have been counted as "socialists" in USA.

GNP per capita in USD in 2015 (according to wikipedia):

5	Norway	74,505
10	USA	56,207
-	Faeroe Islands	53,613
12	Denmark	53,015
13	Iceland	50,734
14	Sweden	50,585
19	Finland	42,405

(The number in the first column is the world ranking - Faeroe Islands is unranked because it doesn't have enough historical data).

Poverty rates (no data avaialble for Faeroe Islands)  - percentage of population living on less tha 1.90 USD a day:

Finland	0.0%
Iceland	0.0%
Norway	0.2%
Denmark	0.2%
Sweden	0.5%
USA	1.3%

Icelandic number from 2014, U.S from 2016, the rest from 2015.

I'm not saying that the Scandinavian way is the one true way everybody should follow. Different nations face different challenges and need different solutions. But that is my point: Do not generalize!

*slight derail*

Isn't Norway the country that fairly recently introduced UBI? Or was that Finland?

Either way, it would appear to work very well indeed.

[Selene Gregoire]

17 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

Honestly, the music is a bit.  

I need help in that area!  Finding a club with people in it with more diversified music. 

I want to hear more vintage stuff...psychedelic...great organ...fabulous guitar...and I don't want to IM the dj all of the time.  If the music were good, I'd tip anyway instead of leave.   lol

If you like classic rock, check out my RL other half DJ Dmitri Polonsky. He will toss in some blues and a couple of other genres that fit with classic rock as well. If you request something he doesn't have and it fits with what he normally plays he will immediately download it and play it for you.

He plays a set every Sunday at noon SLT when he doesn't have to work.

[Love Zhaoying]

4 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

*slight derail*

Isn't Norway the country that fairly recently introduced UBI? Or was that Finland?

Either way, it would appear to work very well indeed.

UBI is straight out of Science Fiction!

[FairreLilette]

16 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

I'm a fan of the live music scene in SL, but I base where I go on the performer and not the club. I have a list of my favorite performers and I follow their schedule. This way I know I'm going to like the music and I know there's a pretty good group of people who follow that performer as well. In time you get to know each other in the group.

I don't want to derail this thread either.  

But, if you knew how many times I've heard "Pour Some Sugar on Me"...you'd leave too.  That's pretty stagnant.  

Live music, it's a possibility.  I'm not sure yet.

I'd love to have a club...but that is not in the cards for me at this time.  

[Selene Gregoire]

9 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

UBI is straight out of Science Fiction!

um... what? 

[Love Zhaoying]

2 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

um... what? 

Yep, some writers wrote about “basic” years ago.

[FairreLilette]

12 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

If you like classic rock, check out my RL other half DJ Dmitri Polonsky. He will toss in some blues and a couple of other genres that fit with classic rock as well. If you request something he doesn't have and it fits with what he normally plays he will immediately download it and play it for you.

He plays a set every Sunday at noon SLT when he doesn't have to work.

K.  I will.  

I am not necessarily looking for Classic Rock though.  I guess what I am looking for is something of what you'd call "deep tracks".  It's the tracks that weren't necessarily a hit on an album but are awesome!  

I want to hear the greatest of music I've never heard before.  I get that with some of the blues clubs...but I think "deep tracks" of all kinds of great music would describe what I am looking for.  

There used to be a dj here who fit the bill, but he seems to be no longer here.  He had a gift for playing music!   He played the "deep tracks" kind of thing.

IM or drop a notecard if you know what I am talking about regarding "deep tracks"...these are the tracks that were not necessarily a hit.  

[Pamela Galli]

1 hour ago, ChinRey said:

All the Scandinavian countries are based on socialism. Even the right wing parties here would probably have been counted as "socialists" in USA.

GNP per capita in USD in 2015 (according to wikipedia):

5	Norway	74,505
10	USA	56,207
-	Faeroe Islands	53,613
12	Denmark	53,015
13	Iceland	50,734
14	Sweden	50,585
19	Finland	42,405

(The number in the first column is the world ranking - Faeroe Islands is unranked because it doesn't have enough historical data).

Poverty rates (no data avaialble for Faeroe Islands)  - percentage of population living on less tha 1.90 USD a day:

Finland	0.0%
Iceland	0.0%
Norway	0.2%
Denmark	0.2%
Sweden	0.5%
USA	1.3%

Icelandic number from 2014, U.S from 2016, the rest from 2015.

I'm not saying that the Scandinavian way is the one true way everybody should follow. Different nations face different challenges and need different solutions. But that is my point: Do not generalize!

It probably is the one true way everybody should follow, and I would just move there except for the cold. 

BTW I am watching 22July and wondering why the whole thing is in English. Usually characters in Scandinavian countries only speak English when they need a lingua Franca, or to say things we are not allowed to say here. Did they make a Norwegian and an English version? 

[ChinRey]

6 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

Isn't Norway the country that fairly recently introduced UBI? Or was that Finland?

That was Finland.

[Selene Gregoire]

41 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Yep, some writers wrote about “basic” years ago.

Oh. You could have just said so. ;op~

[ChinRey]

39 minutes ago, Pamela Galli said:

It probably is the one true way everybody should follow,

No. Selene mentioned UBI and that's a very good example how different nations need different solution. For those not familiar with the term, it's a minimum payment all citizens are entitled to to ensure they're not stracving to death - I think it's 800 Euro a month or something like that. It may work in a fairly small and unified society where the government's power base is firmly rooted in the population at large and not as much in specific segments of it. Imagine how much it would have been abused in a nation with more than 250 milion people, many of them feeling they had no reason to be loyal to the central government or the nation as a whole.

 

39 minutes ago, Pamela Galli said:

BTW I am watching 22July and wondering why the whole thing is in English.

Because the director didn't understand Norwegian, at least that's what he said. It's quite common for Scandinavian movies and TV series to be made in two different versions, one in Egnlish for the international market, one in the native language for the Scandinavian market. 22 July is only in English though.

Edited October 31, 2018 by ChinRey

[Aethelwine]

1 hour ago, FairreLilette said:

I don't want to derail this thread either.  

But, if you knew how many times I've heard "Pour Some Sugar on Me"...you'd leave too.  That's pretty stagnant.  

Live music, it's a possibility.  I'm not sure yet.

I'd love to have a club...but that is not in the cards for me at this time.  

Naz Fride at Atomic Palace on Saturdays has a great knowledge of obscure music that it sounds like you will like, always a nice welcoming group of regulars there. Benny Boozehound that DJs for LCC on Tuesdays another great DJ that plays some great tunes from Swing, to soul, to Grateful Dead. There are some great Djs around in SL.

Off to do a Halloween set myself, got some Neil Young, Squirrel Nut Zippers and Tom Waits amongst others lined up for it.

[LittleMe Jewell]

53 minutes ago, ChinRey said:

1 hour ago, Selene Gregoire said:

*slight derail*

Isn't Norway the country that fairly recently introduced UBI? Or was that Finland?

Either way, it would appear to work very well indeed.

That was Finland.

Finland started a 2-year pilot in Jan 2017, with a random 2000 people (all unemployed), giving them 560 Euros each month (which isn't actually a true basic income since they couldn't live on that).  In April of this year, the government declined a request for funds to expand the program.  The initial participants will continue to get their money through the end of this year - the 2-year period.

There are various cities or small locals that have done or are doing trials.  Canada started a trial in 3 cities in mid-2017 but cancelled it roughly a year later.  In 2016, just shy of 77% of the Swiss rejected a BI proposal.  

There are lots of things to work out in such an idea.

 

[Selene Gregoire]

10 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Finland started a 2-year pilot in Jan 2017, with a random 2000 people (all unemployed), giving them 560 Euros each month (which isn't actually a true basic income since they couldn't live on that).  In April of this year, the government declined a request for funds to expand the program.  The initial participants will continue to get their money through the end of this year - the 2-year period.

There are various cities or small locals that have done or are doing trials.  Canada started a trial in 3 cities in mid-2017 but cancelled it roughly a year later.  In 2016, just shy of 77% of the Swiss rejected a BI proposal.  

There are lots of things to work out in such an idea.

 

There always is. After all, humans (and all the things they say and do) are not perfect. 

I will continue to hold out hope that through trial and error (since that is what it will take to accomplish) UBI will become a reality for all in my lifetime. So everyone needs to get their sheet together because I've got about 20 more years left. 

[Madelaine McMasters]

On 10/26/2018 at 11:12 PM, Klytyna said:

You might have a graphics card that can generate 144 fps, you might even have a monitor that can display 144 fps...

But, like most clueless "leet gamerz" fps braggarts, you only have the standard Mk  1 Human Eyeballs, which can only SEE the image at a measly 25-30 fps...

That's why analog televisions half a century ago were made in 50-60 fps INTERLACED, for an actual fps of 25-30.

That's why video games consoles of the 90's boasted of 60 fps (they forgot to mention it was interlaced).

That's why tech illiterate "leet gamerz" think that 60 fps NON INTERLACED and over, is in fact, needed at all...

 

The fps required to keep a human happy depends on the context. My first computer was a Mac, stolen borrowed from my father. Though it was not nearly as powerful as the engineering workstations he eventually moved to, it felt smoother. Some years later, I read Apple's "User Interface Guidelines", a compilation edited by mistress story teller, Brenda Laurel. That led me to the user centered design research of Don Norman and others, and eventually to a French company that measured "friction" in the user interfaces of products.

Somewhere in all of that I learned a nugget of "wisdom" that matched my own feeling about my Mac. One significant factor in a user's perception of the fluidity and responsiveness of a computer is cursor tracking. Anything less than 60fps produces significant friction, making the user feel the computer isn't quite there. Dad's workstations refreshed the cursor position 30 times/second, even though the monitors were running at 60Hz. My Mac updated the mouse position on each and every 60Hz frame, and Apple really sweated to make that work perfectly. No matter how handily Dad's workstations could outrun my Mac rendering Mandelbrot sets, the Mac was always the most pleasant thing to sit in front of all day.

Theatrical films are generally shot at 24fps. At 24fps, the movie camera shutter is open so long that anything in motion will be blurred. We expect this from our experience in theaters and we think the look is "dreamy" or "theatrical". Though we need only 20fps or so to perceive a sequence of images as fluid motion rather than a series of stills, we can extract addition information from higher frame rates (less motion blur) if we're tracking motion on screen (allowing the tracked object to remain stationary on the retina). At 144fps you will perceive greater detail in any moving objects you are tracking, everything else will be blurry. This is very much how we see the world around us, tracking objects of interest to fix them on the best part of the retina. If you are trying to model reality, as in a video game, high frame rates help... and hurt. If you are faking reality, doing so with exquisite detail exposes that to scrutiny. This increased perception of fakery at high frame rates is called the "soap opera effect" and is analogous to the "uncanny valley".

And this brings me back around to the cursor, that little arrow on the screen that your eye constantly tracks to and fro, all day long, giving you the impression your computer is right there with you, or just trying to get on your nerves. Sometimes it pays to sweat the little details, because they're bigger than you think.

ETA: Bragging of 144fps on a 60Hz monitor is nutty.

Edited October 31, 2018 by Madelaine McMasters

[ellestones]

4 hours ago, Selene Gregoire said:

*slight derail*

derailing it a bit further, yet bringing it back to SL at the end

UBI - universal basic income - in our case, New Zealand, would be an extension of Universal Superannuation. Universal Superannuation is paid out of general taxation to every person 65 years and older - regardless of their income to both rich and poor equally

the principle premise of universal distribution being that any redistribution of taxes back to the population should not be targeted - redistributed equally and not severally. Universal basic education, universal basic healthcare, universal basic income potentially, etc

the loudest objection to UBI is that people will get lazy. Not want to work. Is true this for some who will do absolutely nothing all day in the way of how we traditionally understand work. The traditional view being that work is primarily divided into 2 categories - paid work and unpaid work. For some traditionalists the view being that paid work is a real job and unpaid work is not a real job. From this pov how much we get paid by someone else (thru wages or sales) is the defining measure of whats real and whats not real. The payment defines - not the activity/content of the work being performed

other traditionalists object on the grounds that substantial numbers of lazy people will hamper economic growth - the pool of people willing to work for them on wages or contract will jeopardise their own business ventures. Is not true this in all business cases

is not true either - the lazy part - for substantial numbers of older people receiving universal superannuation. Lots of people in New Zealand continue to work into their 70s, 80s and beyond, while they are physically and mentally capable of doing so, in both paid and unpaid work

UBI for all people - is the basis on which the gig economy could flourish. When people do not have to work in the traditional manner then they will work on what interests and motivates them. The cost of labour to business in the gig economy is less than in the traditional labour/wage/salary regulated economy. And the flexibility of labour in the gig economy is strengthened by UBI. Is why we are now seeing owners of gig economy companies not dismissing the idea of universal basic income. These owners are sometimes referred to as left-libertarian

for those who rely in whole or part on SL and other online outlets to sell their creative work to sustain themselves, UBI if introduced would I think spur them on to even more fully realise their creative potential, adding immeasurably to the commonweal of knowledge and in some beneficial ways to the pursuit of happiness

[Love Zhaoying]

11 minutes ago, ellestones said:

derailing it a bit further, yet bringing it back to SL at the end

UBI - universal basic income - in our case, New Zealand, would be an extension of Universal Superannuation. Universal Superannuation is paid out of general taxation to every person 65 years and older - regardless of their income to both rich and poor equally

the principle premise of universal distribution being that any redistribution of taxes back to the population should not be targeted - redistributed equally and not severally. Universal basic education, universal basic healthcare, universal basic income potentially, etc

the loudest objection to UBI is that people will get lazy. Not want to work. Is true this for some who will do absolutely nothing all day in the way of how we traditionally understand work. The traditional view being that work is primarily divided into 2 categories - paid work and unpaid work. For some traditionalists the view being that paid work is a real job and unpaid work is not a real job. From this pov how much we get paid by someone else (thru wages or sales) is the defining measure of whats real and whats not real. The payment defines - not the activity/content of the work being performed

other traditionalists object on the grounds that substantial numbers of lazy people will hamper economic growth - the pool of people willing to work for them on wages or contract will jeopardise their own business ventures. Is not true this in all business cases

is not true either - the lazy part - for substantial numbers of older people receiving universal superannuation. Lots of people in New Zealand continue to work into their 70s, 80s and beyond, while they are physically and mentally capable of doing so, in both paid and unpaid work

UBI for all people - is the basis on which the gig economy could flourish. When people do not have to work in the traditional manner then they will work on what interests and motivates them. The cost of labour to business in the gig economy is less than in the traditional labour/wage/salary regulated economy. And the flexibility of labour in the gig economy is strengthened by UBI. Is why we are now seeing owners of gig economy companies not dismissing the idea of universal basic income. These owners are sometimes referred to as left-libertarian

for those who rely in whole or part on SL and other online outlets to sell their creative work to sustain themselves, UBI if introduced would I think spur them on to even more fully realise their creative potential, adding immeasurably to the commonweal of knowledge and in some beneficial ways to the pursuit of happiness

Wow, our Premium Stipend is a UBI.

[ellestones]

1 minute ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Wow, our Premium Stipend is a UBI.

No. The 50L stipend is targeted at the elderly of SL. is not universal. Is like a pension

[Love Zhaoying]

12 minutes ago, ellestones said:

No. The 50L stipend is targeted at the elderly of SL. is not universal. Is like a pension

Oh no, I’m elderly!

[ellestones]

@Love Zhaoying

true :)

[Phorumities]

On 10/30/2018 at 5:34 PM, Nalates Urriah said:

No... you don't understand how the free market works. Study up. Try Econ 101. Basic Supply-Demand concepts. See An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations - Adam Smith.

TL:DR version... what would happen to region prices if no one leased regions? The same thing that happens with anything else companies sell. If Ford were to price their Ford Focus 2018 (base price now <US$18,000) at a billion US dollars? Demand would go to zero, no sales. No one would want it at that ridiculous price. Ford calculates that at $18k they will sell the most units possible at the profit margin they want. But, if there were still no demand-sales, Ford would drop the price. At some point dropping the price to improve sales would become counterproductive. Once Ford is at breakeven or a loss per unit they stop making and selling the Focus. Actually, when ther return on investment drops below a certain level they stop making them. Look up the history of various Ford vehicles and other car makers.

The free market quickly responds to supply and demand. Thus the most efficient allocation of resources. Something governments cannot do and thus the repeated failure of centralized government control from misallocation of resources. Talk to anyone that has immigrated out of socialist Russia (pre-1991). Ask them what they thought when they walked into an American supermarket for the first time.

And yet millions of people IN AMERICA, some right here in this very forum in fact, still think socialism is a wonderful thing that will solve all of our problems.

Big government is never the solution to our problems, it is the CAUSE of our problems

Edited October 31, 2018 by Phorumities
added a word, because a small government is wonderful

[ellestones]

@Phorumities

big is probably not the word either. For example the USA has a big multi-tiered government  by world standards and yet the USA is hardly socialist by world standards

in NZ we have small government. A very flat small government structure by world standards and yet we are more socialist than the USA is

basically the issue isn't the size of government that Adam Smith talks about. He talks about the role of government in the planning of society. And the pitfalls when societal planning is centralised by governments of any size

[Hollie Leavitt]

Whether something is stagnant or not, is like asking whether something is beautiful or not. It's very much subjective and largely dependent on the individual.

I first joined SL way back in 2007, was active for a few months, lost interest and left for years. I've only just logged back in over the past week or so. So I guess for me, it has felt stagnant. But I can see so many other members active for so long and obviously, for them, it is far from stagnant.

SL is what it is... and many who expect SL to be what they want it to be instead of what it actually is.. may end up being disappointed.

I've gone back to SL with the same hopes I had when I first joined - wanting to escape the real world to a world where almost anything can be possible... even flying! And I think a lot of people turn to virtual reality to experience things that are either difficult or not possible in real life, eg. fantasies.

My personal disappointment (no judgement please!) comes from the feeling that this virtual world is a bit too similar to the real world for my liking in that to have a truly awesome limitless experience, in most cases, it comes at a cost.. which in turn makes it limiting (and also limiting the escape from RL that I was after.. the escape from RL and its constraints). I do acknowledge that there are still plenty to experience without paying a cent... but its limited. And just like the capacity to have or do amazing stuff in RL is available at a cost, the capacity to have or do amazing stuff in SL is available to those who choose to spend. And it's completely fair - people dedicate so much of their time and talent to amazing SL creations. I've just been spoilt as a Sims player for which so many top notch creations are available for free (I'm sure those creators get paid through other means though). And for me, I have arrived at a point of assessing whether it's worthwhile actually spending money on my "second life" instead of spending that money on my real life... I can't seem to justify it. So yes, my freebie experience in SL has become quite boring so I've stopped logging in.

However, in saying that, I'm still around on forums out of sheer admiration and intrigue for the work of so many talented members, and I'm just enjoying all your thoughts and ideas. So I guess my account isn't going anywhere any time soon ?

...I'd also like to add that I have generally found people to be much nicer and more approachable in SL than in RL! Weird huh?

I already anticipate that my post won't get a lot of love since SL forums would be mostly occupied by SL fanatics... so in case I have offended anyone, I'll say sorry in advance 'cause I definitely don't mean to offend.. but just sharing my personal thought, which is in no way intended as an attack on anything SL.

Edited November 1, 2018 by Hollie Leavitt
Additions to my comment

[Selene Gregoire]

4 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Oh no, I’m elderly!

Makes two of us.

Now if I can just get LL to give me back my original account... but it's been so long it may not even be in the DB any more. NOt sure about that since I still have the calling card for it on this account. 

[Selene Gregoire]

38 minutes ago, Hollie Leavitt said:

Whether something is stagnant or not, is like asking whether something is beautiful or not. It's very much subjective and largely dependent on the individual.

I first joined SL way back in 2007, was active for a few months, lost interest and left for years. I've only just logged back in over the past week or so. So I guess for me, it has felt stagnant. But I can see so many other members active for so long and obviously, for them, it is far from stagnant.

SL is what it is... and many who expect SL to be what they want it to be instead of what it actually is.. may end up being disappointed.

I've gone back to SL with the same hopes I had when I first joined - wanting to escape the real world to a world where almost anything can be possible... even flying! And I think a lot of people turn to virtual reality to experience things that are either difficult or not possible in real life, eg. fantasies.

My personal disappointment (no judgement please!) comes from the feeling that this virtual world is a bit too similar to the real world for my liking in that to have a truly awesome limitless experience, in most cases, you have to pay for it.. which in turn makes it limiting. I do acknowledge that there are still plenty to experience without paying a cent... but its limited. And just like the capacity to have or do amazing stuff in RL is available at a cost, the capacity to have or do amazing stuff in SL is available to those who choose to spend. And it's completely fair - people dedicate so much of their time and talent to amazing SL creations. I've just been spoilt as a Sims player for which so many top notch creations are available for free (I'm sure those creators get paid through other means though). And for me, I have arrived at a point of assessing whether it's worthwhile actually spending money on my "second life" instead of spending that money on my real life... I can't seem to justify it. So yes, my freebie experience in SL has become quite boring so I've stopped logging in.

However, in saying that, I'm still around on forums out of sheer admiration and intrigue for the work of so many talented members, and I'm just enjoying all your thoughts and ideas. So I guess my account isn't going anywhere any time soon ?

I already anticipate that my post won't get a lot of love since SL forums would be mostly occupied by SL fanatics... so in case I have offended anyone, I'll say sorry in advance 'cause I definitely don't mean to offend.. but just sharing my personal thought, which is in no way intended as an attack on anything SL.

Just wanted to let you know, in case you encounter it, don't be too surprised if you run across something in SL that you have seen made for the Sims or have downloaded for your Sims. I have seen one item that I know for a fact was created for the Sims 4 as I have it in my game. I don't know if the person who brought it into SL is the same as the person who made it for the Sims and have no way to know. Just... don't be surprised if you run across some of your DLC Sims stuffs in SL.