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Macrocosm Draegonne

BOM Texture Atlases?

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3 hours ago, Klytyna said:

I find all of your posts offensive for a variety of reasons.

The only person being offensive here is you, with name calling and judgments.  Check your privilege at the door, it means nothing to me, I treat everyone fairly, I do not care who they are.

This post, which you conveniently ignored, is what is actually being discussed, review that and see where your response is considerably out of context.   I appreciate the that the bake system has limitations and maybe is not a good fit for making an atlas, THATS WHY I ASKED the question to begin with... But we can easily export them from Blender, and many other apps. So an object has that added level of performance optimization which is not in any way a bad thing, or causing any more additional textures to be loaded than were going to already.  The only possible overhead is handling tiled texture quadrants which couldn't possibly be that intensive.

 

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6 hours ago, Fionalein said:

change one texture and the whole bake must be transmitted anew

How is that applicable ? You cannot change the individual texture spots, you'd have to replace the whole atlas, just like texturing any other object which bakes multiple materials to uv areas in the texture space, you cant just swap one little part out, the whole image must be replaced, & uv maps cannot be changed without altering/reimporting the mesh.  i wouldn't expect an atlas to do that really, except maybe in one particular use case, if object level atlases were ever automated, to combine all textures into an atlas, but thats really a bleeding edge case of a wild feature, not really anything too important to demand or anything.

Edited by Macrocosm Draegonne

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5 hours ago, Macrocosm Draegonne said:

 I am tenacious,...

No you're not - Kyle Gass and Jack Black are...

11 minutes ago, Macrocosm Draegonne said:

How is that applicable ? You cannot change the individual texture spots, you'd have to replace the whole atlas, ...

Er yes? That is what we were trying to tell you... duh...

Are you really now claiming that my argument makes no sense because what you suggested would not be practicable in the first place ... seriously?

I'm with @Klytyna... find a new voice of reason with more patience, I'm out.

Edited by Fionalein
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35 minutes ago, Fionalein said:

No you're not - Kyle Gass and Jack Black are...

ooh love them, saw them live a few times, good stuff!

35 minutes ago, Fionalein said:

Er yes? That is what we were trying to tell you... duh...

Are you really now claiming that my argument makes no sense because what you suggested would not be practicable in the first place ... seriously?

I'm with Klytyna... find a new voice of reason with more patience, I'm out.

No, im genuinely asking if that is applicable?  If you have a nice mesh object like a table, where they baked all the materials to one texture, you cant simply decide to change the wood grain on the legs, you'd have to recreate the image and put new pixels in the uv areas you want to change, or else change the mesh.   Thats how it is now for mesh, they're not often modifiable, and even if they are you still are bound by the UV map in the mesh, and it completely dictates how you texture must be, else it will be borked.

Any object with an atlas is an object with one diffuse, there is no interface to change areas of a UV map,  only one texture slot to adjust, we have to change the whole image to change the texture on the object.  So, there is no way to change just one section of the atlas, unless its an automated system of some type.  I never said you make no sense, but that particular point is IMO not applicable.  And we've already all agree'd the bake system in its current form is not ideal for automating it, it would be some potential future enhancement, but nothing more.  Atlases though I feel are important in the mix, which is why I have attempted to see if there are any potential tools they could give creators to utilize them smartly.

Edited by Macrocosm Draegonne

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Oh too funny, looks like Sansar supports texture atlases, for the performance benefits, imagine that?  So LL knows they have value, but of course implementation and system setup mean different things for different games, but generally speaking texture atlases are a good practice, when they're used correctly.

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It's also worth noting that its likely SL is already doing the automated atlas thing when it bakes terrain textures (including tileability), id guess it does it for performance reasons and ability to revert back to previous set.  Im not entirely certain of this of course, i cant just look at the server code lmao. But it seems very plausible.  I can only upload four 1024 images to the interface which would make a 2048 atlas, unless they downsample to 1024, I dunno, theres no way to click the terrain and inspect.

Edited by Macrocosm Draegonne

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Oh you mean on one objects? Sorry that id didn't get what folly you were up to because folly it is no matter the scale. That is totally useless bandwidth SPAM as well. Say you do use 3 faces ... Oh no our "We know it's stupid but we wanted a new gadget" tool adds an unused 4th empty texture so we can transmit it. It also would limit us to the highest resolution in all related textures... right now most SL objects have normals and spectaculars sized 2^0 squared (a plain black or white pixel, and I guess it does not even have to be transmitted, just tell the viewer it is the "Blank" texture) .... you would blow up all those to 512² or 1048² ... more SPAM...

Still wondering why she calls you tech-illiterate? I have a suggestion. There is this guy on the Forums trying to improve sim crossings, he also knows all the latest tech and has great ideas for improvement - much like you, you really will like him. Team up with him butcher the OpenSims code and build your own Better Grid™ with texture atlases...

Edited by Fionalein
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On 10/24/2018 at 3:51 AM, Fionalein said:

Oh you mean on one objects? Sorry that id didn't get what folly you were up to because folly it is no matter the scale. That is totally useless bandwidth SPAM as well. Say you do use 3 faces ... Oh no our "We know it's stupid but we wanted a new gadget" tool adds an unused 4th empty texture so we can transmit it. It also would limit us to the highest resolution in all related textures... right now most SL objects have normals and spectaculars sized 2^0 squared (a plain black or white pixel, and I guess it does not even have to be transmitted, just tell the viewer it is the "Blank" texture) .... you would blow up all those to 512² or 1048² ... more SPAM...

Still wondering why she calls you tech-illiterate? I have a suggestion. There is this guy on the Forums trying to improve sim crossings, he also knows all the latest tech and has great ideas for improvement - much like you, you really will like him. Team up with him butcher the OpenSims code and build your own Better Grid™ with texture atlases...

Yeah I am talking about object level atlases for the most part, they would require their own size limit rules, but it could be kept the same as now, so no quadrant can be more than 1024 size.  there are a few other places atlases can be used, but its not a one size fits all thing for sure.

To you other point, I am completely immune to other peoples judgments, for one its utterly useless, unless it pleases or uplifts you, or even challenges you in some constructive way.  I am aware that harsh judgments coming from someone has psychological meaning for that person, its all about them, and how they perceive themselves, projected externally.  I absolutely adore and love myself utterly, and thus this is how I see everyone else, I actually do love everyone, even if I might toss them up a bit from time to time heheh, but I do that to me too!  Nobodys perfect... thats why humans are amazing and always evolving.

I think Klytyna is fabulous! I have nearly pissed myself laughing at some of her remarks here and there, I can see through the toughness into the brilliance that she possesses, and I love it, I dont need her to be perfect, or to even like me either, thats not required for my enjoyment.

Edited by Macrocosm Draegonne

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I've never seen Klytyna flounce out before. She's right, though. Cramming lots of independent textures onto one texture atlas is only useful in SL if they're all used on the same object. Correct use - all the parts of a suit. Incorrect use - spring, summer, fall and winter textures for a tree.

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1 hour ago, animats said:

I've never seen Klytyna flounce out before. She's right, though. Cramming lots of independent textures onto one texture atlas is only useful in SL if they're all used on the same object. Correct use - all the parts of a suit. Incorrect use - spring, summer, fall and winter textures for a tree.

Yes I agree, there has to be a good reason the textures are together, being related to one object, or group of objects that are all in view is a good instance I believe.   They're not the most important tool in the chest, but can be of benefit to performance if used right, and even then, its not always worth it to bother for all situations.

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In the previous example I gave for that 3rd party Skyrim app, DynDoLOD, it generates and logically groups various LOD textures into excellent very performant Texture Atlases.  Skyrim looks 1000% better because all the disparate mods added tend to have messy LOD and perform badly too, my game has almost 600 mods installed by many different people.  Without DynDoLOD it looks a hot mess and has low fps.  Texture atlases in this specific case were the perfect choice for LOD, more generally speaking they can do nice things in a lot of situations.

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On 11/22/2018 at 1:54 AM, noir20 said:

 i  need psychological dr in sl  

lol, far better to know thyself, then you can hear anything from anyone and it wont trigger you.  I still have triggers though of course, we all do, for me its seeing people get bullied, or abused etc, I go into full on warrior mode and have to calm myself before interjecting, else I will put my own mess into the situation rather than diffuse it.

Edited by Macrocosm Draegonne

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On 12/22/2018 at 4:08 PM, Kyrah Abattoir said:

@Macrocosm DraegonneYou really need to stop obsessing over texture atlases.

When you have a hammer everything looks like a nail, but still.

For sure, I agree totally if I had any stress over them that would be most excellent advice indeed.  TBH im not bothered enough to worry about it, though it was interesting enough to me to ask as i do love digging in to things and hearing others out.  Besides, I can use them elsewhere already, and its yummy right now, no need for any stressing. Most definitely im not demanding anything, only asking questions and discussing.

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On 11/17/2018 at 8:19 PM, animats said:

I've never seen Klytyna flounce out before. She's right, though. Cramming lots of independent textures onto one texture atlas is only useful in SL if they're all used on the same object. Correct use - all the parts of a suit. Incorrect use - spring, summer, fall and winter textures for a tree.

One time I had an inworld store, and stuck all the textures for my vendors on a single sprite sheet. It made the texture loading time for my store speed up a lot 😄

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