Full-Perm Policy

[Vze]

I have a really dumb question that I would like to ask; So basically, we are allowed to buy an item with full perm and if the owner grants us his permission saying that "You can do whatever you want with it, sell it, edit it. I don't care!" We are allowed to sell it on the marketplace right? Or even the ones that we purchase and read their terms.

 

The stupid question is this: I have seen plenty of people buying and re-selling mesh full-perm clothing which is allowed I guess? But.. Isn't that whatever we have to sell on market has to be made by as completely? Like hundred percent ours?

[Kyrah Abattoir]

No, a lot of people use components, it sometimes makes it hard to track them as creator of they forgot to put one of their prims as the root.

You have to follow the sale agreement if there is any.

[Chaser Zaks]

Full perm stuff that states you can do whatever you want with it, usually you can resell it, although it is a dick move(if you didn't make any changes to it).

However, be aware not all full perm stuff states this, for example:

• I "sell"(give away) a full perm mesh cube set here, if you check the description, I state "It cannot be resold as-is". What "As-is" may vary from person to person. For me, it is "If you change the color, size, etc, it is considered modified", others may see it as "You have to have built something with it".
• Some items are listed under a license such as GPL or Creative Commons. GPL requires you to share the source material full perm, CC may depend. EG: CC-BY you just have to credit the original creator, CC-SA means you have to share it under full perm, CC-NC means you cannot sell it. These can be done in combinations.
• Some require specific conditions be met such as: You must make a custom texture for it, or you have to use it in a different build where the build isn't focused around the specific part.

In general, a good rule of the thumb is don't resell free stuff or full perm stuff if you didn't do anything to it other than relisting it. When in doubt, ask the seller/creator!

Edited October 21, 2018 by Chaser Zaks

[Vze]

What I created: https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/Premium-Rainbow-Watch/15835806

Orignal one: https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/Full-Perm-Mesh-Mens-Watch-Fashion-Kit/4219491

 

I followed all the instructions and terms, it just makes me feel a little awkward when there's people out there both doing modelling and texturing by theirselves / Plus it's like, I remember that in Second Life policies, it says "You can only sell things you created."

Edited October 21, 2018 by Vze

[ChinRey]

1 hour ago, Vze said:

I have a really dumb question that I would like to ask; So basically, we are allowed to buy an item with full perm and if the owner grants us his permission saying that "You can do whatever you want with it, sell it, edit it. I don't care!" We are allowed to sell it on the marketplace right?

That's often called a CC0 or FAL license and it's very rare in Second Life. The only SL builder I know of who used it, is Linda Kellie and she regretted it later when she saw how other peope took advantage of it.

 

2 hours ago, Vze said:

Or even the ones that we purchase and read their terms.

When there are terms, you follow them.

 

2 hours ago, Vze said:

But.. Isn't that whatever we have to sell on market has to be made by as completely? Like hundred percent ours?

That would mean you have to make all the textures yourself, only using photos you've taken youreself and/or artwork you've made yourself as bases, and you can only use scripts you've written yourself line by line, and your own animations, and you have to build your computer yourself and program every piece of software yourself and...

Seriously, full perm meshes are building materials you can use to build your own creation. As logn as the end result is something you can truy call your own, it's perfectly ok.

[ChinRey]

1 hour ago, Vze said:

What I created: https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/Premium-Rainbow-Watch/15835806

Orignal one: https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/Full-Perm-Mesh-Mens-Watch-Fashion-Kit/4219491

Seems perfectly ok to me. Except you say it's full perm in the item description. You definitely want to change that or you'll get a ton of complaints and bad reviews.

[Vze]

4 hours ago, ChinRey said:

Seems perfectly ok to me. Except you say it's full perm in the item description. You definitely want to change that or you'll get a ton of complaints and bad reviews.

Why would people make bad reviews about it though? Also I personally think that everyone should put some credit to the full-perm creator in their description if the item is derived from another.

[ChinRey]

1 hour ago, Vze said:

Why would people make bad reviews about it though?

Because they will misread the description and believe they buy a full perm copy.

Edited October 21, 2018 by ChinRey

[Vze]

I guess I will keep the watches on my catalog, although it bothers me when i think about the fact that everyone is making their own meshes and own textures when i'm just re-texturing it. Thanks for those who answered!

[ChinRey]

2 hours ago, Vze said:

I guess I will keep the watches on my catalog, although it bothers me when i think about the fact that everyone is making their own meshes and own textures when i'm just re-texturing it.

What makes you believe everyone is making their own meshes??? I would be surprised if as much as a quarter of the mesh items you see on the Marketplace is sold by the person who actually made the mesh.

One "trick" many builders who use full perm prefabs use, is to link the meshes to a root prim they rezzed themselves. That way they show up as the creator.

This is what the full perm creators want you to do too because they don't want the responsibility for the end product. I sell a little bit of full perm house parts myself I you won't believe how many times I've had somebody IM me asking for help and support for some house I have never even heard about.

Edited October 21, 2018 by ChinRey

[Vze]

12 hours ago, ChinRey said:

What makes you believe everyone is making their own meshes??? I would be surprised if as much as a quarter of the mesh items you see on the Marketplace is sold by the person who actually made the mesh.

One "trick" many builders who use full perm prefabs use, is to link the meshes to a root prim they rezzed themselves. That way they show up as the creator.

This is what the full perm creators want you to do too because they don't want the responsibility for the end product. I sell a little bit of full perm house parts myself I you won't believe how many times I've had somebody IM me asking for help and support for some house I have never even heard about.

I'm talking about the most success names, they are doing their own models I believe. I still feel kind of guilty for not trying to mesh and use something that was meshed by someone else.

[ChinRey]

3 hours ago, Vze said:

I'm talking about the most success names, they are doing their own models I believe.

Or they can afford to pay for exclusive rights to the models they buy.

Both happen actually.

 

3 hours ago, Vze said:

I still feel kind of guilty for not trying to mesh and use something that was meshed by someone else.

As a small scale full perm merchant I really hope not too many people think that way, it would ruin our market!

But a mesh is only one part of a build. It always needs textures, often scripts and maybe some animations too. I don't actually know of anybody who always do all those four themselves. Your work is the sum of everything it's made from. The mesh may be the most noticeable part but it's still not more important then the others. As long as the work as a whole is yours, it doesn't matter if some of the parts are prefabs.

There are actually two good arguments why we shold use more, not less premade assets in Second Life. One is that we need more collaborative works. The more we can rely on each others' strengths to cover our own weaker points so we can focus on what we are good at ourselves, the better. The one person doing all the work method may be good for boosting that person's ego but it's not doing SL as a whole much good.

The other argument is that there are so many assets in Second Life already, almost 30 billions of them actually. That's a lot for the poor computers to keep track of. It's not a big deal (except for textures - too many textures in a scene is still one of the biggest performance problems we have) but every little bit helps so the more we can reuse assets, the better.

---

With all that being said, I do agree that your watch isn't that much of an original work. But that is perfectly ok too because it's still a good one, I'm sure the buyers will be perfectly happy with it. And more important, you have to start somewhere.

A few of the "success names" are mayflies, here today, gone tomorrow. But the rest, the ones with staying power, have been here for ten years or more, slowly building a solid foundation for their businesses. That's how long it takes. Don't try any shortcuts to the top because if you do, you will be just another mayfly.

Edited October 22, 2018 by ChinRey

[Ana Stubbs]

I completely agree with ChinRey. The only thing I have on the Marketplace is a full perm sculptie candle that I textured, lit (lighting is I think a underappreciated fifth skill to add to your list, along with potentially soundscaping), and provided the animation for. The particle flame was a full perm script. 

 

There are a billion things I would improve about it if I built it now, and I'd probably additionally do my own build and script, but it sells quite well, and no-one has ever complained that I didn't personally place every vertex and every particle.

[Kyrah Abattoir]

I can totally understand your feeling Vze, excepted in a few cases where I do collaborations with other creators (and then both names are on the product pictures), I generally do everything myself.

This is purely MY own opinion, but When I see something I like in SL I tend to build admiration towards their dedication and skill. If later down the line I discover that they didn't actually make it, I feel cheated/lied to.