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Sad that popular places are turning into Experiences with no option to visit without accepting


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Just now, Madelaine McMasters said:
1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said:

I designed a sim once where there was a long pathway, and as one crossed a bridge I deliberately made phantom, they fell into an abyss. It was a beautiful abyss, and I wanted them to see it, and to be shocked and surprised when they fell into it.

Now some people were pissed about this fall, and others loved it. So who should one side with?

Anyone care to guess where I fall on falling?

Is a story that I missed about to manifest? :)

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Could be worse. They could have gachas.

I think a place using an Experience should declare what it entails, and risk sanction of some kind if it exceeds this declaration.

What is being requested here is transparency: knowledge upfront that - if you enter an area or location - you will have to accept the experience that will take over control of your avatar, especially

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2 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I designed a sim once where there was a long pathway, and as one crossed a bridge I deliberately made phantom, they fell into an abyss. It was a beautiful abyss, and I wanted them to see it, and to be shocked and surprised when they fell into it.

Now some people were pissed about this fall, and others loved it. So who should one side with?

Just now, Madelaine McMasters said:

Anyone care to guess where I fall on falling?

No need to guess where Maddy falls on falling, but what about someone like me? I have a morbid and horrific fear of falling. I still have a kneejerk panicked reaction if my partner jumps off our build platform (because, to him, falling is the fastest and funnest way to reach the ground). Even though it's only pixels, even though we cannot be hurt in SL, my stomach still leaps, I still feel like I'm going to throw up, and my brain goes into adrenaline overdrive.

If I'd walked over Luna's bridge and it had collapsed without warning beneath me, sending me plummetting, then you bet I would have been angry. Well, after the initial sheer panic attack was over and done with at least. It's funny to some, but not to me.

 

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If nothing else, Gabrielle, you chose a heck of a good topic: three four pages of fascinating posts already in just fourteen hours (it expanded as I wrote). 

I've been ambivalent with the few Experience equipped chances I've had (I haven't gotten settled enough yet with this re-entry to do a lot of exploring). I like the idea of seeing what happens and how it's done, but I just do not like other people planning my exploration. Like Lil, I would infinitely rather explore a new place on my own than take an organized tour. When I'm in  a strange (to me) place the last thing I want is to have someone telling me where to go and how to get there. Just let me do it myself. I've had some pretty cool experiences that way. Not all of them as good as getting caught in the middle of an anti-government protest in Kuala Lumpur because I insisted on using public transit (in this case the light rail system) instead of a limo or taxi. You're not having fun until you're getting tear-gassed in the train station :-).

The same reluctance to believe someone else knows what I like/want better than I do tends to make me not a fan of the Experience idea. I don't mind 'losing control' of my avatar; I can always bail out if I don't care for it if by no other means than closing the viewer. I'd just rather move at my own pace and see it my way.

All of the above changes if the Experience is the whole point of the experience. Elementary example: Disneyland. I loved just getting in the boat and going for the ride at The Pirates of the Caribbean. I had no desire whatever to travel that route on my own. ETA: Good grief, it took me half an hour to do this? In my defense I did get interrupted a few times. Anyway, upon going back to read what posted while I dawdled, I see Lil had already used Pirates of the Caribbean as an example (in exactly the same way I did, which is pretty funny).

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22 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

So, if someone tells you to do something, you do the opposite?

In that case, aren't your actions exactly as constrained by the other person as if you did do what they told you to do?

The trick about injecting theories of probability-based presumptions into a conversational reply to another is that that the evil humor of nature and time-space often makes a fool of the one doing it. Besides that, chaos theory says you're wrong. There is, however, only one way to find out.

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4 minutes ago, Skell Dagger said:

No need to guess where Maddy falls on falling, but what about someone like me? I have a morbid and horrific fear of falling. I still have a kneejerk panicked reaction if my partner jumps off our build platform (because, to him, falling is the fastest and funnest way to reach the ground). Even though it's only pixels, even though we cannot be hurt in SL, my stomach still leaps, I still feel like I'm going to throw up, and my brain goes into adrenaline overdrive.

If I'd walked over Luna's bridge and it had collapsed without warning beneath me, sending me plummetting, then you bet I would have been angry. Well, after the initial sheer panic attack was over and done with at least. It's funny to some, but not to me.

I think if you've read my posts at all you know that I have strong sympathy for people's vulnerabilities and I want to protect them (sometimes too much).

However I've learned in life that this can't be the be all and end all for everything. What about those people who found it fun and exciting? And what if their number was far, far more than those who might be upset over falling? 

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1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said:

What about those people who found it fun and exciting? And what if their number was far, far more than those who might be upset over falling? 

Which is more likely to be remembered (usually over and over again) by the people experiencing it?

A one-off fun moment?

Or a terrifying few seconds that panicked the hell out of you?

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1 minute ago, Skell Dagger said:
2 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

What about those people who found it fun and exciting? And what if their number was far, far more than those who might be upset over falling? 

Which is more likely to be remembered (usually over and over again) by the people experiencing it?

A one-off fun moment?

Or a terrifying few seconds that panicked the hell out of you?

If we would make it a priority to create a world (real or virtual) that never frightened anyone we wouldn't have much of any kind of world :(

Everyone can't be protected from everything.

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1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said:

If we would make it a priority to create a world (real or virtual) that never frightened anyone we wouldn't have much of any kind of world :(

Everyone can't be protected from everything.

Which is why I have never told my partner how much seeing him do that upsets me. He thinks it's fun and he enjoys it, so I bite down the fear and just laugh with him.

I have a very specific, real-world reason why I hate falling. I won't discuss it here, but I'm glad to see that at least one person finds a past trauma of mine amusing. I'm out.

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1 minute ago, Skell Dagger said:

I won't discuss it here, but I'm glad to see that at least one person finds a past trauma of mine amusing. I'm out.

I don't find your past trauma amusing at all.

I have some PTSD myself, and understand it. I just don't expect the world to conform to my fears as I think it's up to me to deal with them.

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47 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

You pay X amount for your sim each month, you spent countless hours developing it. You have have a 'message' you want to convey to others who hopefully appreciate it.
Experiencing a sim like this reminds me of so many VR Experiences & Games I've played -- total control of my avatar right down to dressing me as an astronaut in space, or adorning me with miner's clothes on a trip through a mine. Love it!
I don't even think the 'sim' should ask permission, but rather you just arrive and you are THERE...experiencing what the author has in mind.
Somebody doesn't want to experience this? Don't visit!!

Thank you! Nice to see not everyone is so entitled.

31 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Returning to the Disneyland analogy:  Yes, I need the Experience in order to properly do/experience something like the Pirates of the Caribbean ride.  However, I don't need the Experience to just wander around the park enjoying the wonderful builds.  Someone might want to give me a tour (experience), but it isn't really NEEDED just to see and love the park itself - thus taking the tour should be optional.  

Yes, there are things in SL that are like the Pirates of the Caribbean ride, but there are far more things that are simply like the Disney park.

 

You paid to go there. You have to follow rules when you are there.... you seem to be forgetting the little details of reality.

29 minutes ago, Skell Dagger said:

What is being requested here is transparency: knowledge upfront that - if you enter an area or location - you will have to accept the experience that will take over control of your avatar, especially if that is the only way you can proceed in the area.

I would LOVE if Experiences could be more upfront and tell you what is in the sim and what sort of controls are actually needed. I feel it would make experience based sims more fun and enjoyable for everyone... Not everyone likes sudden surprises haha
 

8 minutes ago, Skell Dagger said:

No need to guess where Maddy falls on falling, but what about someone like me? I have a morbid and horrific fear of falling. I still have a kneejerk panicked reaction if my partner jumps off our build platform (because, to him, falling is the fastest and funnest way to reach the ground). Even though it's only pixels, even though we cannot be hurt in SL, my stomach still leaps, I still feel like I'm going to throw up, and my brain goes into adrenaline overdrive.

If I'd walked over Luna's bridge and it had collapsed without warning beneath me, sending me plummetting, then you bet I would have been angry. Well, after the initial sheer panic attack was over and done with at least. It's funny to some, but not to me.

To me that is an indicator of good art, she triggered a sincere emotional response... however I do think you should be given a sort of warning before going into her sim knowing that you might be exposed to a personal fear. All of this could be done with a better and more transparent experience system as mentioned previously.

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22 minutes ago, Skell Dagger said:

No need to guess where Maddy falls on falling, but what about someone like me? I have a morbid and horrific fear of falling. I still have a kneejerk panicked reaction if my partner jumps off our build platform (because, to him, falling is the fastest and funnest way to reach the ground). Even though it's only pixels, even though we cannot be hurt in SL, my stomach still leaps, I still feel like I'm going to throw up, and my brain goes into adrenaline overdrive.

If I'd walked over Luna's bridge and it had collapsed without warning beneath me, sending me plummetting, then you bet I would have been angry. Well, after the initial sheer panic attack was over and done with at least. It's funny to some, but not to me.

I get this Skell, and I'll make a point of never teleporting you into an abyss. But you also know that a transparency brochure at the head end of an experience might be written by someone who's unaware of your specific fear (as I was), photosensitive epilepsy, or any number of other potential triggers. And, because you have identified a sensitivity to me, I offer the advice to "fly" before teleporting, as you might already do. I don't know how to make SL a safe, unannoying place for everyone to experience without making it a dreadful place for anyone to create. So, I will always lean towards arming individuals with the tools to help make their stay here a happy one.

ETA: There isn't a year out of my 48 (that I can remember) in which I haven't said or done something to scare the hell out of someone. Most recently, and you'll understand this, it was by walking across the roof of my house to troubleshoot a problem. It was nothing to me, but my handyman was white as a sheet when I came down. I knew he was afraid of heights, that's why I was on the roof. What I didn't know was that, like you, he experiences the fear vicariously.

It will surprise nobody that, upon reaching the ground and seeing his distress, I said "Why the hell didn't you go inside while I was up there?!"

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8 minutes ago, Skell Dagger said:

Which is why I have never told my partner how much seeing him do that upsets me. He thinks it's fun and he enjoys it, so I bite down the fear and just laugh with him.

I have a very specific, real-world reason why I hate falling. I won't discuss it here, but I'm glad to see that at least one person finds a past trauma of mine amusing. I'm out.

Not to belittle your fears but you do realize rape jokes are a thing right? The world is heinously cruel. You have learn to walk past it or it will consume you. I doubt anyone here is trying to be malicious towards you. And tbh I think its kinda dick move not telling your partner...I doubt they want to torment you either and you told a bunch of randos on the forums... idk thats weird.. I'd be upset if I was your partner lol

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2 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

You pay X amount for your sim each month, you spent countless hours developing it. You have have a 'message' you want to convey to others who hopefully appreciate it.
Experiencing a sim like this reminds me of so many VR Experiences & Games I've played -- total control of my avatar right down to dressing me as an astronaut in space, or adorning me with miner's clothes on a trip through a mine. Love it!
I don't even think the 'sim' should ask permission, but rather you just arrive and you are THERE...experiencing what the author has in mind.
Somebody doesn't want to experience this? Don't visit!!

It seems to me Moraxo's "experience" is better suited for Sansar, which means I'll definitely never see it 

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1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said:

If we would make it a priority to create a world (real or virtual) that never frightened anyone we wouldn't have much of any kind of world :(

Everyone can't be protected from everything.

And yet we have the phenomenon of young snowflakes demanding safe rooms and teddy bears because some one wrote "vote for Trump" in chalk on a sidewalk at some university before the last election.

Yes I'll look it up if you demand confirmation

 

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55 minutes ago, Moraxo said:
1 hour ago, Skell Dagger said:

Which is why I have never told my partner how much seeing him do that upsets me. He thinks it's fun and he enjoys it, so I bite down the fear and just laugh with him.

I have a very specific, real-world reason why I hate falling. I won't discuss it here, but I'm glad to see that at least one person finds a past trauma of mine amusing. I'm out.

Not to belittle your fears but you do realize rape jokes are a thing right? The world is heinously cruel.

Yes, sometimes it is. And for that reason, it is all the more vital that we not participate in that cruelty, but strive instead as much as we can to redress it. And that very much includes trying our best (even if imperfectly) to anticipate and address the things we do, however inadvertently, that cause distress and pain.

Shrugging it off with a platitude about how cruel the world can be merely means that you have accepted and become complicit in that cruelty. You don't need to do that: you can listen, you can care, you can try to accommodate. The tools to achieve this are at hand: things like trigger warnings and opt-out buttons make you part of the solution, rather than a willing accomplice.

I honestly can't understand why you would not choose to care.

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5 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I honestly can't understand why you would not choose to care.

Huh... I dunnuh see where @Moraxo says they don't care. I must be missing something.

I do know this, though:

  • Inaction is NOT an indicator of a lack of caring.
  • Sometimes, truth hurts.
  • People will always read or hear what they want, no matter how clearly you make your meaning known.
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4 hours ago, Arduenn Schwartzman said:

You want to be in the sim but you can't because you don't want to grant Experience to take your freedoms. Yet, you are free to decline but then you're not experiencing the Experience there and you're on your own. But at least you have control over your own freedoms, but it's still a bugger that you can't experience the sim with your freedoms intact.

It's like Stan of the People's Front of Judea, who wants to be called Loretta, because he wants to have babies but he doesn't have a womb so he can't really have babies, but he she should at least have the right to have babies.

My brain hurts.

And, they will fight for her right to have babies, even though its no ones fault, not even the Romans.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PObBA2wH5l0

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1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said:

I designed a sim once where there was a long pathway, and as one crossed a bridge I deliberately made phantom, they fell into an abyss. It was a beautiful abyss, and I wanted them to see it, and to be shocked and surprised when they fell into it.

Now some people were pissed about this fall, and others loved it. So who should one side with?

It depends. Was there a kill prim at the bottom?

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4 hours ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

Do read Kahneman's "Thinking Fast and Slow" (Thanks again @Pamela Galli!). After that, you may question whether being self aware blunts anything.

 

There's something going on here that we won't have the time to dissect. I don't think I've ever experienced being told what I want in the way I think you experience it. In all seriousness, this goes back to my childhood, when I was deemed "precocious" where the scare quotes hint at something ominous. I am a pain in the ass, stupidly contradictory, ain't nobody telling me what I want. I'm also curious and love trying new things. And I'm always on the lookout for evidence that all my bluff and bluster has fallen to the most seemingly innocuous manipulations.

What you may see as "being told what I want" probably seems to me like a ham-handed attempt to crack into my skull, making me want to pat the perpetrator on her little head saying "okay, let's see what you can do, Sweetie". I bask in my imagined superiority, I suppose. But I really do want to know, if I can, what power can be wielded over me. And I can't figure that out if I don't allow the attempt.

Ever shed an unexpected tear at a movie, saying "how did I let that happen"? I hate crying, but kudos to people who can lure me in and make me do it. Those are the people I want to have lunch with.

Regarding your mention of PTSD. That is an argument for transparency up front. And I hope that sufferers are well aware of mute/block/forget/TP/log-out, because in my experience with people who've suffered here, the worst threats come looking for them. They don't require you to ask for a ticket to the abuse.

A certain someone may mis-read this, but I love it! 

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