Why is Linden Labs stealing our money? (Linden Realms)

[Innula Zenovka]

13 minutes ago, Marianne Little said:

If this is correct, does it not mean that the player earn 50L because if the change? So it is the opposite of theft? Maybe I am daft, but it reads like that to me.

In order to cash out crystals, be they from the old Linden Realms or ones collected in the new game, you need to complete all four quests and fix Ruth's amulet.   Ruth then gives you L$50 for fixing her amulet and you can collect cash out your crystals daily for another week.    At that point, you need to fix her amulet again, and she gives you another L$50.

So yes, a regular player will receive L$ for the crystals she collects plus an additional L$50 a week for completing quests.

[Rolig Loon]

It sounds like a deal to me.  Instead of simply wiping out the old game and voiding any old crystals, LL created a new game that pays you more, and they let you cash in your crystals from the old game when you play it.  

[Chic Aeon]

When I heard that the Realms were changing (or HAD changed and got called back to fix some issues) I got my alts over there to check if they had any crystals from long ago. They did but not tons. It was fun running around there again but not like when the land was GREEN. 

I went over again to the new realms last night and DID find the letter this time and got started on the quest. To me, the quest is HARD but much of that is likely the learning curve of how to get from point A to point B.  I doubt I will finish the quest , but in redoing the Realms LL has done a great job in many ways (IMHO of course). 

• First, it is much more difficult to cheat in oh so many ways.
• It will hopefully cut down on the griefing as that was a super pain.
• The folk that want to play the game AS A GAME -- can with lots more challenges and a new story line.
• It is upgraded and MUCH prettier with lots more things to see. 
• It will most likely save THE LAB a TON of money --- which will help offset other "taxes" like tier, cash out, linden buying etc fees that affect those of us that actually live and work here --- not just claim crystal money and take it out for RL uses. 

 

[Fionalein]

While Sylvia is pretty wrong in about everything she assumes that still does not make the new LR a better game...

@Innula Zenovka I hope you got of your haughty horsie and finished the "little game" before you opened your pretty little pixel mouthie and accused everyone who has problems with finishing that "oh so little game" as being a cheater ...

 Some people ...

Edited October 11, 2018 by Fionalein

[Love Zhaoying]

37 minutes ago, Fionalein said:

While Sylvia is pretty wrong in about everything she assumes that still does not make the new LR a better game...

@Innula Zenovka I hope you got of your haughty horsie and finished the "little game" before you opened your pretty little pixel mouthie and accused everyone who has problems with finishing that "oh so little game" as being a cheater ...

 Some people ...

Were there actually ways to cheat in the old LR?

[Love Zhaoying]

16 hours ago, Sylvia Wasp said:

So, Linden Realms, the game we all know and love to play has been ended.  Sorry, in LL speak, it's been "evolved" I guess, lol.  

The problem for a lot of played this game is, we don't f-ing want to play this stupid new version of the game at all, but we still have Lindens in our HUDs that can't be cashed in, unless we spend a f-ing week playing a game we DON'T want to play, and DIDN'T sign up for.  

I'm going to take a logical, legal point of view here and just say that this is just outright THEFT.  This is Linden Labs STEALING MONEY from you that was promised in good faith under the old game rules.  As part of the old game, crystals collected COULD BE TRADED IN AT ANY TIME for Lindens.  This is the CONTRACT that players agreed to when they played Linden Realms.  This is also the CONTRACT that Linden Labs agreed to.  

Now, as it turns out, any monies accrued in the old game CANNOT BE CASHED in unless you want to play the (stupid) new game.  

THIS IS NOT WHAT THE PLAYERS AGREED TO.  

This is Linden Labs GOING BACK ON THEIR WORD (their contract!) and STEALING MONEY that they had already promised to pay us.  

It's obvious why they are doing this as if they didn't, almost no one would even try to play the stupid new game.  Players are being FORCED against their will to play the new game (which still doesn't even work right BTW), in order to refund the crystals they farmed in the old game so as to artificially raise up the new game and make it seem like it's all that, when it isn't.  To make it seem like they haven't made a hugely unpopular mistake by getting rid of the original Linden Realms.  

Linden Labs has every right to create a new game.  Linden Labs has every right to CANCEL any game they see fit to make.  They DO NOT however, have the (legal) right to stop us from cashing out the crystals ("chips" in other words) we made while working in the old game.  And it was work!  Hours and hours of WORK that was supposed to be rewarded with Lindens but now is not.  

If Linden Labs expects us to honour the end user agreement as "the law" WHY WON'T THEY HONOUR THEIR OWN CONTRACT?  

The only right thing to do here is to provide a location somewhere where users of the old game can cash out WITHOUT being forced to play the new game, which they didn't sign up for and don't actually want to play.  The only conclusion otherwise is that Linden Labs only honours agreements when it suits them, or that they are just ok with STEALING YOUR MONEY.  

Sylvia Wasp

I like how you use all caps for emphasis. I read it (in my head) as shouting. 

[Fionalein]

Just now, Love Zhaoying said:

Were there actually ways to cheat in the old LR?

Apparently? I know I got TPed home a bunch of times due to oversensitive anti cheat watchdog items... So I guess there were a lot. The items would not have been installed otherwise. The new stepstone hopping however is something a trained bot would be far superior in than any human. Not sure what the Lindens thought when they dreamt up that "anti bot" measure

[Arduenn Schwartzman]

16 hours ago, Sylvia Wasp said:

And it was work!  Hours and hours of WORK

Naaaw, it was just play.

If you consider a game work, you're doing it wrong.

Edited October 11, 2018 by Arduenn Schwartzman

[Fionalein]

16 minutes ago, Arduenn Schwartzman said:

Naaaw, it was just play.

If you consider a game work, you're doing it wrong.

Sadly there are some folks who went all the way to earning teh funds for a maitreya + catwa by doing that grinding... for some it is the only way to obtain that kind of stuff.

Edited October 11, 2018 by Fionalein

[Love Zhaoying]

2 minutes ago, Fionalein said:

Sadly there are some folks who went all the way to earning teh funds for a maitreya + catwa by doing that grinding... for some it is the only way to obtain that kind of stuff.

I guess they don’t want to do one of those “adult” jobs (working in clubs, etc.)..

[Fionalein]

Just now, Love Zhaoying said:

I guess they don’t want to do one of those “adult” jobs (working in clubs, etc.)..

Just being poor does not make you loose your standards - in fact many not so poor only are because they have none

[Love Zhaoying]

3 minutes ago, Fionalein said:

Just being poor does not make you loose your standards - in fact many not so poor only are because they have none

Well, ok then! Some people would probably rather “lower their standards” than play LR! It works both ways.

[Fionalein]

1 minute ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Well, ok then! Some people would probably rather “lower their standards” than play LR! It works both ways.

There are few places where a beggar more looked down than a prostitute, I guess another one of those "only in SL" situations LOL

[Love Zhaoying]

5 minutes ago, Fionalein said:

There are few places where a beggar more looked down than a prostitute, I guess another one of those "only in SL" situations LOL

..don’t most still look down on the “give me munnies!!” types of noobs?

[Ceka Cianci]

Is this game only open to premium members,or did they change it at some point and open it up for everyone?

[Fionalein]

2 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

Is this game only open to premium members,or did they change it at some point and open it up for everyone?

It was long ago opened to everyone - long before my time actually. And long before the current incarnation.

Edited October 11, 2018 by Fionalein

[Ceka Cianci]

Just now, Fionalein said:

It was long ago opened to everyone - long before my time actually. And long before the current incarnation.

Ah ok,I was just curios..

The last I think I had even heard of this game was when Rodvik was still CEO..Back when they started all that path finding stuff for games..

[Innula Zenovka]

2 hours ago, Fionalein said:

While Sylvia is pretty wrong in about everything she assumes that still does not make the new LR a better game...

@Innula Zenovka I hope you got of your haughty horsie and finished the "little game" before you opened your pretty little pixel mouthie and accused everyone who has problems with finishing that "oh so little game" as being a cheater ...

 Some people ...

I didn't accuse anyone of cheating.   All I said was that I thought the only people who would be seriously inconvenienced by the requirement to complete all the quests would be people who ran armies of bots.

Personally I don't regard the learning curve involved in working out how to play through a game as a serious inconvenience.    A bit a nuisance, perhaps, but no more than that.   The first time I played the game it took me about two-and-a-half to three hours to complete all the quests, and that will doubtless go down with practice, once I discover the best routes between the quest regions and the safest paths through the stepping stones in the last two quests. 

No big deal, in other words.  YMMV.

Edited October 11, 2018 by Innula Zenovka

[Lindal Kidd]

Meh.  Tempest in a teapot. 

Outside of a few people who've confessed in this thread, I don't think I know anybody in SL who plays Linden Realms. 

[RobertDeCraon]

@Callum ... because nobody does ONLY farm those crystals. The L$ Linden spends here go back into the economy, thus sustain for example development of others, or finance the development of new things directly (z.B. as uploads). And when the economy grows, people need more places, rent spaces on sims for example, make the next layer of the economy more profitable. It ends up with LL basically selling more sims, bringing more players to a point, where they have to go premium and so on. What the old LR did was to give new players a chance to build up very modest businesses. If the product or service is good, the rent bigger and bigger spaces, which adds up to sims, or if it is not good, all Linden lost were a few L$ which are already back in the system and thus show elsewhere up in the investment chain.

 

However, this is all at the moment moot, the quests in LR are totally bugged and can not be finished anyway. So right now, people are miffed. A mathematical indicator was already 46k people online over the last three hours. The European evening under the week normally is over 50 usually. Roughly 8% less than usual, lets see where this goes?

[ChinRey]

1 hour ago, Lindal Kidd said:

Outside of a few people who've confessed in this thread, I don't think I know anybody in SL who plays Linden Realms. 

I confess I've played it every now and then although it's been a while now and I won't miss it too much.

Pyri Peaks is still my favorite LL game by far but the Realms is a good second. I've also enjoyed a few of the mini-games they've spread out across the grid (such as the Melanthia safe) but the other big LL games I couldn't care less about.

[Parhelion Palou]

14 minutes ago, RobertDeCraon said:

However, this is all at the moment moot, the quests in LR are totally bugged and can not be finished anyway. So right now, people are miffed. A mathematical indicator was already 46k people online over the last three hours. The European evening under the week normally is over 50 usually. Roughly 8% less than usual, lets see where this goes? 

Correlation doesn't imply causation. I suggest you do a study that proves a link between LR and the number of people online. Write that up and submit it to Linden Lab. Better yet, give it to Maddy so she can test her flamethrower.

[Callum Meriman]

45 minutes ago, RobertDeCraon said:

@Callum ... because nobody does ONLY farm those crystals. The L$ Linden spends here go back into the economy, thus sustain for example development of others, or finance the development of new things directly (z.B. as uploads). 

Sorry Robert I still don't buy it. If the lab give a LR player L$100, that L$100 does not help the economy, it harms it.

If the LR player spends that money, the merchant then cashes it out to pay tier, or take a wage... and the Lab have to pay real USD out. The lab has US$0.40 less profit. To get that money back they need to charge other people more money on tier.

If the LR player uses that money to offset their tier then the Lab collect less tier from them, again the Lab has $0.40 less profit.

If the LR player uses the money to fund texture or mesh uploads, those assets stay on the Lab's servers using up disk space forever. Disk space costs money. If they give away L$100 which someone used to upload 10 images, then the Lab have to not only pay for the extra, they need to adjust the sinks and sources. This needs to be made up for in other areas, normally by increasing fees on those who use real money.

This is not free money that helps the economy as you claimed. This is very much something that needs to be funded by other USD paying customers. We pay more then we could.

 

[Lindal Kidd]

I agree with every point that Callum makes...except the one about "we pay more than we could" because LL is giving away $L through Linden Realms (and, for that matter, via other games and through Premium weekly stipends.)

I am not at all sure about that, and not enough of an economist or an accountant to make a sound argument either way.  However, I note that $L are "play money" (according to the ToS and Linden Lab's legal department), with no value whatsoever (at least in LL's eyes.  Those of us paying tier or putting our kids through college with $L may think differently.)

So, if LL prints more play money and gives some away, maybe it really doesn't hurt their bottom line.

 

[Callum Meriman]

13 minutes ago, Lindal Kidd said:

I note that $L are "play money" (according to the ToS and Linden Lab's legal department), with no value whatsoever (at least in LL's eyes.  Those of us paying tier or putting our kids through college with $L may think differently.)

So, if LL prints more play money and gives some away, maybe it really doesn't hurt their bottom line.

It hurts it at the point it's cashed out. It's that simple.

At the point the play tokens are cashed into real USD, the lab have to pay that from their bank account.

Roberts argument was that people farming LR earnt money to keep the economy going strong and offset the damage from Sansar, keeping the Lab flush with funds and safe. My points have all been to disprove this. Merchants might get a few more sales (minimal) then they would have, but the result is the Lab has paid USD from it's bank accounts. It's been a hit to their profits.

17 hours ago, RobertDeCraon said:

However, some poor people worked a lot to make a few L$ in the old LR and thus, were able to participate in the economy. The economy in SL has anyway some problems, the uncertainties caused by Sansar did not help either. So the real question is, has Linden performed with their cut-off perfomed another step in the log painful death of SL. Because if so, Linden has of course to see to find another cash cow after they dug themselves already the Sansar hole.

 

Edited October 12, 2018 by Callum Meriman