Why is Linden Labs stealing our money? (Linden Realms)

[Sylvia Wasp]

So, Linden Realms, the game we all know and love to play has been ended.  Sorry, in LL speak, it's been "evolved" I guess, lol.  

The problem for a lot of played this game is, we don't f-ing want to play this stupid new version of the game at all, but we still have Lindens in our HUDs that can't be cashed in, unless we spend a f-ing week playing a game we DON'T want to play, and DIDN'T sign up for.  

I'm going to take a logical, legal point of view here and just say that this is just outright THEFT.  This is Linden Labs STEALING MONEY from you that was promised in good faith under the old game rules.  As part of the old game, crystals collected COULD BE TRADED IN AT ANY TIME for Lindens.  This is the CONTRACT that players agreed to when they played Linden Realms.  This is also the CONTRACT that Linden Labs agreed to.  

Now, as it turns out, any monies accrued in the old game CANNOT BE CASHED in unless you want to play the (stupid) new game.  

THIS IS NOT WHAT THE PLAYERS AGREED TO.  

This is Linden Labs GOING BACK ON THEIR WORD (their contract!) and STEALING MONEY that they had already promised to pay us.  

It's obvious why they are doing this as if they didn't, almost no one would even try to play the stupid new game.  Players are being FORCED against their will to play the new game (which still doesn't even work right BTW), in order to refund the crystals they farmed in the old game so as to artificially raise up the new game and make it seem like it's all that, when it isn't.  To make it seem like they haven't made a hugely unpopular mistake by getting rid of the original Linden Realms.  

Linden Labs has every right to create a new game.  Linden Labs has every right to CANCEL any game they see fit to make.  They DO NOT however, have the (legal) right to stop us from cashing out the crystals ("chips" in other words) we made while working in the old game.  And it was work!  Hours and hours of WORK that was supposed to be rewarded with Lindens but now is not.  

If Linden Labs expects us to honour the end user agreement as "the law" WHY WON'T THEY HONOUR THEIR OWN CONTRACT?  

The only right thing to do here is to provide a location somewhere where users of the old game can cash out WITHOUT being forced to play the new game, which they didn't sign up for and don't actually want to play.  The only conclusion otherwise is that Linden Labs only honours agreements when it suits them, or that they are just ok with STEALING YOUR MONEY.  

Sylvia Wasp

[Pamela Galli]

?

[Callum Meriman]

Era livre para começar. Não há quebra de contrato para coisas gratuitas.

[LittleMe Jewell]

26 minutes ago, Sylvia Wasp said:

They DO NOT however, have the (legal) right to stop us from cashing out the crystals ("chips" in other words) we made while working in the old game.

I don't think I'd bet money on that, if I were you.

 

[Tarani Tempest]

It concerns me that this really seems to be a serious issue for someone   ...or is it?

C'mon man, LL does not owe you anything for voluntarily playing their game.  Calm down , go get some fresh air..... take a nap or something.

[Solar Legion]

Sorry, wrong on all counts, period. No discussion. 

Linden Dollars are defined as play tokens - the ability to convert them is meaningless and can be ceased at any time, with no legal recourse. 

The second stage tokens from Linden Realms? They don't have to do a bloody thing - period. Nothing was stolen from you - nothing at all. 

Deal with it. 

[Claireschen Hesten]

8 minutes ago, Sylvia Wasp said:

Linden Labs has every right to create a new game.  Linden Labs has every right to CANCEL any game they see fit to make.  They DO NOT however, have the (legal) right to stop us from cashing out the crystals ("chips" in other words) we made while working in the old game.  And it was work!  Hours and hours of WORK that was supposed to be rewarded with Lindens but now is not.  

I think you're lucky any crystal balance accrued in the old realm was carried over to the new realm LL could have made everyone start over from scratch if they wanted to. as i know to my cost allowing your crystal balance to build up isn't such a good idea my ban cost me a crystal balance i built up worth a fortune. surely playing the new realm is a small price to pay to cash out your crystals since no one is physically being forced against their will to play

[Pamela Galli]

 

[Innula Zenovka]

1 hour ago, Sylvia Wasp said:

This is Linden Labs GOING BACK ON THEIR WORD (their contract!)

Edited October 11, 2018 by Innula Zenovka

[RobertDeCraon]

THe problem here seems not to be the fact, that Linden has the right to make a new game. Without doubt, they have. However, some poor people worked a lot to make a few L$ in the old LR and thus, were able to participate in the economy. The economy in SL has anyway some problems, the uncertainties caused by Sansar did not help either. So the real question is, has Linden performed with their cut-off perfomed another step in the log painful death of SL. Because if so, Linden has of course to see to find another cash cow after they dug themselves already the Sansar hole. Linden is in the need to reinforce the user base again to survive. We players lose only a few L$, they lost step by step their only income source.

[Fionalein]

When I heard about the new Realms I just cashed out my old Crystals (I left old LR with a remaining crystal balance of 0-0-0-0-0). I agree with you, Sylvia that the new Realms are annoying and not worth playing. But I do not agree with you that you have any right to cash out those Lindendollars. It was an offer - you didn't take it back when it was easy. When I played the realms I cashed out daily, so should have you.

Edited October 11, 2018 by Fionalein

[Ethan Paslong]

20 minutes ago, RobertDeCraon said:

some poor people

there are no poor people on SL, only ones that can spend more, want to spend more, and some that don't want to spend more, or spend at all. You need a pretty good internetconnection and at least medium laptop/pc, poor people don't have those, i don't see people who are on a strict budget as poor.

22 minutes ago, RobertDeCraon said:

 The economy in SL has anyway some problems

yes there are, but i seriously doubt Realms is cause of that, nor that the free penny from that game is going to solve it.

23 minutes ago, RobertDeCraon said:

the uncertainties caused by Sansar

wich uncertainties? What doubts there were are pretty clear answered. As long SL is profitable it will be around and worked on.

24 minutes ago, RobertDeCraon said:

So the real question is, has Linden performed with their cut-off perfomed another step in the log painful death of SL.

what cut off?.. the few pennies lost by updating Realms?... and what painfull death, are there signs for that? LL never worked more on improving SL since Sansar got in Beta.

27 minutes ago, RobertDeCraon said:

they lost step by step their only income source.

ehm... nope, they spreaded the income sources a bit more, thats all.

[RobertDeCraon]

Ethan, seem not to realize, that, if you don'T buy Dell and Windows, you can get a quite decent box for limited money? And you seem also not to realize, that, if you live in an urban area, you get often quite decent internet- connections also for not too much money. ADSL is cheap and often sufficient.

So, if in your limitless arrogance, people are only poor to you if they are already starving ... alright. Otherwise, there are poor people and it is not always a question of "want" but of "can" spend more ... or not! So, God may keep you naivité ... means, never hits you with hard times and never makes it necessary for you to use mathematics ... because if you fail already on understanding why cutting off the working low end of the user base is a bad idea ... chances are you will fail with more complex problems equally!

[Fionalein]

I do not believe Realms money has any influence on the SL economy - at least no direct one. The old Realms were however a way to get some pocket change for those - that for whatever reason - were not able to buy Lindens. While you can have much fun for free in SL, being able to buy a shiny thing or two greatly improves your participation in the SL community. And the community is what keeps us all here, what makes the "whales" (now using Pay To Win game terminology, no insult) keep investing money. I never did much Realms myself as 3rd party games were much better in getting me my pocket change Lindens. Those games however have many more rules and if you are unable to communicate with the game staff due to a language barrier, you might end up banned from those games without knowing why. Being unable to complete the silly minigame myself I totally understand the frustration of those that relied on LR to get the money for their occasional virtual treats.

That being said, dear disgruntled LR fans: Try fishing! Traffic attractor games are much less annyoing and leave you with no strain on your fingers either =^.^= .

Edited October 11, 2018 by Fionalein

[Ethan Paslong]

50 minutes ago, RobertDeCraon said:

 So, God may keep you naivité ... means, never hits you with hard times and never makes it necessary for you to use mathematics ... because if you fail already on understanding why cutting off the working low end of the user base is a bad idea ... chances are you will fail with more complex problems equally!

you have no single idea or knowledge who i am, what i do, what i spend, and even IF i have something to spend, and it would be nice if you attack at personal level, to battle with open helmet, not a two hours old account that's inworld for two weeks.

 

Edited October 11, 2018 by Ethan Paslong

[Callum Meriman]

30 minutes ago, Fionalein said:

And the community is what keeps us all here, what makes the "whales" (now using Pay To Win game terminology, no insult) keep investing money.

I  iz whale. I don't think people who call me a facist are much of a community.  I don't have much time for ungracious people or those who throw insults. Life is too short, and there's a lot o' whaling to do!

[Phorumities]

4 hours ago, Sylvia Wasp said:

I'm glad all you fascists find this funny.  Linden Labs is stealing your money all the same.  

To make a condensed answer to all of you ... it is wrong, LL could do something about it, and the ONLY reason they don't is simply self interest (they want your money).  

Also, of course I am not going to do anything about it like call an actual lawyer, because Linden Labs can do whatever they f-ing want.  I've played the game for over a decade, I know that.  What I AM saying is that they *shouldn't* do this, that it's *wrong* from them to do this, and for all the people they are screwing over here (and there are a LOT!) should speak up about it.  Unfortunately you're all too selfish to actually care.  

It's all one big happy community until someone in the community is in trouble or asks something from you isn't it?  Then you're just all wrapped up in your private sh*t and only concerned about making snide comments on the forum to show how cool (you think) you are.  

So go play the new game for 5 minutes then cash out all your crystals. What are we talking about here? 50 cents in US dollars?

 

[Phorumities]

1 hour ago, RobertDeCraon said:

Ethan, seem not to realize, that, if you don'T buy Dell and Windows, you can get a quite decent box for limited money? And you seem also not to realize, that, if you live in an urban area, you get often quite decent internet- connections also for not too much money. ADSL is cheap and often sufficient.

So, if in your limitless arrogance, people are only poor to you if they are already starving ... alright. Otherwise, there are poor people and it is not always a question of "want" but of "can" spend more ... or not! So, God may keep you naivité ... means, never hits you with hard times and never makes it necessary for you to use mathematics ... because if you fail already on understanding why cutting off the working low end of the user base is a bad idea ... chances are you will fail with more complex problems equally!

The answer is obvious, LL needs to operate on a socialist model, tax the rich users to ensure no poor users starve to death.

 

[Callum Meriman]

2 hours ago, RobertDeCraon said:

However, some poor people worked a lot to make a few L$ in the old LR and thus, were able to participate in the economy.

 

2 hours ago, RobertDeCraon said:

We players lose only a few L$, they lost step by step their only income source.

Help me out here Robert. If you were only farming for coins that the lab provide, how are you an income source?

The *only* income source for the lab are people who pay in USDm be that in premium, tier or lindex. LR farmed money that you give to merchants doesn't help the economy, it's money the Lab give away. When the merchant cashes out... the Lab pay for it from their own pockets.

If anything LR eats into the profit that the lab make. It's not strengthening the profitiability of the game, it's weakening it.

 

[Love Zhaoying]

9 hours ago, Sylvia Wasp said:

So, Linden Realms, the game we all know and love to play has been ended.  Sorry, in LL speak, it's been "evolved" I guess, lol.  

The problem for a lot of played this game is, we don't f-ing want to play this stupid new version of the game at all, but we still have Lindens in our HUDs that can't be cashed in, unless we spend a f-ing week playing a game we DON'T want to play, and DIDN'T sign up for.  

I'm going to take a logical, legal point of view here and just say that this is just outright THEFT.  This is Linden Labs STEALING MONEY from you that was promised in good faith under the old game rules.  As part of the old game, crystals collected COULD BE TRADED IN AT ANY TIME for Lindens.  This is the CONTRACT that players agreed to when they played Linden Realms.  This is also the CONTRACT that Linden Labs agreed to.  

Now, as it turns out, any monies accrued in the old game CANNOT BE CASHED in unless you want to play the (stupid) new game.  

THIS IS NOT WHAT THE PLAYERS AGREED TO.  

This is Linden Labs GOING BACK ON THEIR WORD (their contract!) and STEALING MONEY that they had already promised to pay us.  

It's obvious why they are doing this as if they didn't, almost no one would even try to play the stupid new game.  Players are being FORCED against their will to play the new game (which still doesn't even work right BTW), in order to refund the crystals they farmed in the old game so as to artificially raise up the new game and make it seem like it's all that, when it isn't.  To make it seem like they haven't made a hugely unpopular mistake by getting rid of the original Linden Realms.  

Linden Labs has every right to create a new game.  Linden Labs has every right to CANCEL any game they see fit to make.  They DO NOT however, have the (legal) right to stop us from cashing out the crystals ("chips" in other words) we made while working in the old game.  And it was work!  Hours and hours of WORK that was supposed to be rewarded with Lindens but now is not.  

If Linden Labs expects us to honour the end user agreement as "the law" WHY WON'T THEY HONOUR THEIR OWN CONTRACT?  

The only right thing to do here is to provide a location somewhere where users of the old game can cash out WITHOUT being forced to play the new game, which they didn't sign up for and don't actually want to play.  The only conclusion otherwise is that Linden Labs only honours agreements when it suits them, or that they are just ok with STEALING YOUR MONEY.  

Sylvia Wasp

 

[Innula Zenovka]

As I understand it, before you can cash out crystals in the new game, you need to complete all the quests.   Then when you cash out you receive all your existing balance from the old Linden Realms, plus whatever you've collected in the new game and a L$50 thank you gift from Ruth.    After that you can cash out daily for another week, at which point you need to complete the quests again (or you can complete them during the week, and fix Ruth's amulet at the end of the week).

That really does not seem a great imposition, and I don't really see why anyone should get so upset about it.

The only people, to my mind, who will be seriously inconvenienced are people who are used to running armies of bots looking for crystals, since the bots will somehow have to learn how to complete quests as well.

Edited October 11, 2018 by Innula Zenovka

[Blush Bravin]

.

Edited October 11, 2018 by Blush Bravin
I really must remember to add quotes when responding to a comment .. see below.

[Love Zhaoying]

I interpret it as, “I was successful in the previous LR. But, I did not have a full set of crystals to cash-out on my last time playing. And even if I did, it won’t let us cash out with the old LR hud.” 

If this is the case..

 

[Blush Bravin]

28 minutes ago, Innula Zenovka said:

The only people, to my mind, who will be seriously inconvenienced, are people who are use to running armies of bots looking for crystals, since the bots will somehow have to learn how to complete quests as well.

So basically they gamed the system and are mad because now it's harder to game the system.

Edited October 11, 2018 by Blush Bravin

[Marianne Little]

1 hour ago, Innula Zenovka said:

As I understand it, before you can cash out crystals in the new game, you need to complete all the quests.   Then when you cash out you receive all your existing balance from the old Linden Realms, plus whatever you've collected in the new game and a L$50 thank you gift from Ruth.    After that you can cash out daily for another week, at which point you need to complete the quests again (or you can complete them during the week, and fix Ruth's amulet at the end of the week).

That really does not seem a great imposition, and I don't really see why anyone should get so upset about it.

The only people, to my mind, who will be seriously inconvenienced are people who are used to running armies of bots looking for crystals, since the bots will somehow have to learn how to complete quests as well.

If this is correct, does it not mean that the player earn 50L because if the change? So it is the opposite of theft? Maybe I am daft, but it reads like that to me.