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So, here's the issue: The SL Viewer and Firestorm don't work anymore. I mean, they start, but the framerate is really low. Especially when I move the camera angle or move my avatar. Then it can reach lows of like 1 to 2 frames per second. I'm not sure what's wrong honestly, seems related to the rendering, as it is also exceptionally slow. And it would seem it's not a server or hardware issue, as the problem persists even when I change the graphics settings to low, while the frame rate is just fine even on high settings on Singularity. Any idea what I should do about this? I should add that I've been using both of the viewers currently not working, previously on this computer without these issues. I would be grateful if someone more experienced could give me some guidance on this. Thanks!

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It will be very difficult for anyone to do much more than guessing.  Please open your viewer and click Help >> About Second Life (or About whatever viewer you are using). Then click the button that copies all of the information to your clipboard.  Return here and paste it into your question.  Also, go to a region where you have been experiencing graphics problems, open your Statistics Bar (CTRL + Shift + 1), and tell us what your packet loss % and Ping Sim (msec) numbers are.  How are you connected to the Internet?

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Posted (edited)

In the top menu bar of the viewer, go to Help -> About Second Life (or Firestorm), click the "Copy to clipboard" button & paste all your system information here.

How long ago were you able to use the LL viewer & Firestorm without the poor performance?
Are you using the old release viewer version of Singularity which doesn't support Bento or are you using one of their recent alpha builds?
Do you have the poor performance at all locations?

Daft question, but have you rebooted the computer since the problem started?

Edit to add:  Please post the system information from the LL viewer or Firestorm, not from Singularity.
Singu shows less information in its system info.

Edited by Whirly Fizzle

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Here's the System information:

Firestorm 5.1.7 (55786) Jul 13 2018 20:00:04 (64bit) (Firestorm-Releasex64) with Havok support
Release Notes

You are at 92.8, 219.4, 21.4 in Happy Heaven located at sim10685.agni.lindenlab.com (216.82.53.47:13002)
SLURL: http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Happy Heaven/93/219/21
(global coordinates 172,381.0, 356,827.0, 21.4)
Second Life Server 18.09.20.519894
Release Notes

CPU: AMD Phenom(tm) II X6 1055T Processor (2809.45 MHz)
Memory: 8191 MB
OS Version: Microsoft Windows 10 64-bit (Build 7600)
Graphics Card Vendor: ATI Technologies Inc.
Graphics Card: AMD Radeon (TM) R9 380 Series

Windows Graphics Driver Version: 6.0.1.0
OpenGL Version: 4.2.13541 Compatibility Profile Context 24.20.13019.1008

RestrainedLove API: RLV v3.2.1 / RLVa v2.2.0.55786
libcurl Version: libcurl/7.54.1 OpenSSL/1.0.2l zlib/1.2.8 nghttp2/1.25.0
J2C Decoder Version: KDU v7.10.4
Audio Driver Version: FMOD Studio 1.10.05
Dullahan: 1.1.1080 / CEF: 3.3325.1750.gaabe4c4 / Chromium: 65.0.3325.146
LibVLC Version: 2.2.8
Voice Server Version: Vivox 4.9.0002.27586

Settings mode: Firestorm
Viewer Skin: Firestorm (Grey)
Window size: 1912x1049 px
Font Used: Deja Vu (96 dpi)
Font Size Adjustment: 0 pt
UI Scaling: 1
Draw distance: 64 m
Bandwidth: 1000 kbit/s
LOD factor: 1.5
Render quality: Low (1/7)
Advanced Lighting Model: No
Texture memory: 512 MB (1)
VFS (cache) creation time (UTC): 2018-10-4T17:49:28 
Built with MSVC version 1800
Packets Lost: 401/16,916 (2.4%)
October 04 2018 12:17:52 SLT

I'm connected to the internet by fibre optic cable, if that's what you meant. Packet Loss - 1.0%. Ping Sim 200 to 300 ms.

And yes, I've restarted my computer, but to no avail. And how long since I last used the viewers, well I'd say Firestorm about a year ago perhaps. Any idea what the issue could be?

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Well, you have a reasonably decent graphics card and it looks like you have set Preferences sensibly, so you are not overtaxing the system.  Your System Information is reporting a rather high packet loss of 2.4%, even though your Statistics Bar is telling you 1.0%, which is still higher than it should be (you should expect something close to 0% -- mine says < 0.1% normally), so that's one possible place to look.  If you haven't rebooted your router and modem recently, start there.  Also check all cables and cable connections to be sure that nothing is loose and that the cat hasn't been chewing on things.  If those steps don't decrease your packet loss, ask your ISP to check their lines, especially the ones at wherever you connect to their cable. 

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The easy way to tell whether your problem is with the viewer is to install a different viewer, preferably the standard Linden Lab viewer.  If that works, then you'll know that Singularity is the problem.  Packet Loss can vary up and down by the second, BTW, so a good reading one moment might turn into a bad one a moment later if you have a lousy path through the Internet.  Theoretically, it should be low and stable.  If yours is wobbling up and down, it looks to me like you may have a transient problem -- like a flaky cable or an old router.  The best person to offer an opinion is @Nalates Urriah, who may pop her head in here if she's around.

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1 hour ago, TheNotSoAverageJoe said:

But you sure this really isn't a problem with the viewer then? In Singularity, the System Information says packet loss is at 0.0%. I mean, isn't that odd?

No... not really. The Windows OS and the viewer are reporting different metrics using the same labels. The viewer is including computer, network travel, and server delays in its PING. As best I can tell the viewer is only reporting packet loss for the viewer and SL communications. Win OS is reporting PING from your NIC, crossing the net, and bounce from the destination NIC a much narrower metric. Win OS is also reporting based on all network traffic. The result is VERY different numbers. So, no surprise you see differences.

The result is if the basics Win OS reports suck the viewer numbers will suck. But, you can have good Win OS numbers and the viewer numbers will suck if the viewer or SL servers are lagging. So, you have to figure out where the problem is. http://blog.nalates.net/2011/10/26/troubleshoot-your-sl-connection/

Connection usually affects render time not so much FPS. You can have lots of gray FPS... because the textures haven't caught up. Decoding textures can throw on a heavy CPU load. But, it might not show as textures are arriving too slowly to load up the CPU. It gets complicated to figure out because so much is interrelated.

I don't stay up on Singularity. I do know that it is designed to work with older hardware. You computer isn't that old.

I noticed...

Your computer – vs – mine

AMD Radeon (TM) R9 380 Series Driver Version: 6.0.1.0 – vs – June 2015, Adrenalin Edition 18.9.3 Optional Release Date 9/26/2018
Microsoft Windows 10 64-bit (Build 7600) – vs – Microsoft Windows 10 64-bit (Build 17134)
OpenGL Version: 4.2.13541 – vs – OpenGL Version: 4.6.0 NVIDIA 399.07
Packets Lost: 401/16,916 (2.4%) – vs – Packets Lost: 7/317,804 (0.0%)

Consider updating your computer and drivers.

The CPU is a 2010 release version. In computer years that is pretty old. I haven't checked to see if there is anything that CPU specifically lacks that the FS or LL viewers need and Sing has worked around. But, if you see a significant FPS difference between FS/LL and Sing then I would suspect there is an issue. 

1 hour ago, TheNotSoAverageJoe said:

Like I said, I don't have the issue with Singularity. I mean, if my internet connection would be the problem, I'd have the same issue with Singularity too, right?

Yes...

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OS Version: Microsoft Windows 10 64-bit (Build 7600)

Something odd there...

Build 7600 is Windows 7 not Windows 10.
Are you running the viewer on Windows 10 set to run in Windows 7 compatibility mode?  That's likely to dent performance badly.

Does the LL viewer system information also show: OS Version: Microsoft Windows 10 64-bit (Build 7600) ?
Does Singularity system information also show the same?  I'm not sure if Singularity uses the Windows 10 manifest though, so it may report a bogus Windows version for Windows 10.

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Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, TheNotSoAverageJoe said:

So, here's the issue: The SL Viewer and Firestorm don't work anymore. I mean, they start, but the framerate is really low. Especially when I move the camera angle or move my avatar. Then it can reach lows of like 1 to 2 frames per second. I'm not sure what's wrong honestly, seems related to the rendering, as it is also exceptionally slow. And it would seem it's not a server or hardware issue, as the problem persists even when I change the graphics settings to low, while the frame rate is just fine even on high settings on Singularity. Any idea what I should do about this? I should add that I've been using both of the viewers currently not working, previously on this computer without these issues. I would be grateful if someone more experienced could give me some guidance on this. Thanks!

I read the thread and I am *surprised* that only one person (that I noticed) is suggesting what I am about to suggest.

The first thing you need to do is TRY ANOTHER VIEWER.

Choose one or more from this list that appeals to you and give it a go. They are all free, so there's no reason not to:

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Third_Party_Viewer_Directory

Two things: trouble-shoot your framerate difficulties (and determine if it is the viewer or system-based) and explore alternative viewers for performance and feature-set.

I personally like the official LL viewer the best. yes, I really, actually do. But I need RLV to managemy Wardrobe system from the web, so I require a third-party viewer. I've used and championed Firestorm for years (all the way back to its Emerald Viewer days), but it has lately become a crash-prone bloated pig-in-a-poke (for me) - so I hit the third-party viewer page and checked them all out. I've settled on catznip (mostly because it resembles LL viewer, performs way better than Firestorm for me, and it has a "killer feature" that even Firestorm doesn't have that makes inventory management a dream.

My point is simply: You may find that there is a better viewer for you than Firestorm. Or maybe not. Firestorm *is* a great viewer, it's just that sometimes, for some people, there are better alternatives.

Edited by Alyona Su
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On 10/5/2018 at 3:40 PM, Alyona Su said:

I've settled on catznip (mostly because it resembles LL viewer, performs way better than Firestorm for me, and it has a "killer feature" that even Firestorm doesn't have that makes inventory management a dream.

What feature is that?

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4 hours ago, Ansariel Hiller said:

What feature is that?

They added more inventory options for searching and filtering in R12...

Personally, I don't need any of the new inventory features, but then again, my inv isn't an ungodly mess like a lot of peoples.
 

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2 hours ago, Klytyna said:

They added more inventory options for searching and filtering in R12...

So I checked and regarding the actual inventory filter options, I don't see much difference except a more granular way to filter for name, description and owner, a bit more options for date-specific filtering, and you can also filter for particular permissions, while in Firestorm you have an option to filter for transfer-only items. Personally I wouldn't say that is a killer feature.

Really great is of course the option to add an inventory folder to the Quick Preferences window. For Firestorm, I created the Favorite Wearables feature that basically has the same purpose, but works a bit different in its technical implementation.

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7 hours ago, Ansariel Hiller said:

What feature is that?

It would be this:

 

:)

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40 minutes ago, Alyona Su said:

It would be this:

 

:)

Oh yes, that is really cool. But Kitty has been a bad kitty and not released her source code for ages. Might have to try with catnip...

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