Environmental Enhancement Project (aka EEP!) Feedback Thread

[KjartanEno]

2 hours ago, arton Rotaru said:

You are talking just plain nonsens. smh

 

I appreciate a good challenge. I've done the simple reproduction of the issue which you wrote about. I've also added my own test prim to the mix to see how well the materials should work under a 'fixed' EEP Sunset. I could have spent more time tweaking the Personal Lighting settings in this test, but I believe I've made my point well enough. The shine is fine. The presets are currently broken.

On 8/25/2020 at 5:19 PM, Stevie Davros said:

Is it possible to amend the default sunset to achieve the same look as non-EEP?  Could it be the settings for default sunset that are part of the problem?

Yes, Stevie! It can be done with Love Me Render RC. It is impossible to do this with the current release LL viewer or any third party viewer that uses unaltered EEP code and shaders.

 

[arton Rotaru]

38 minutes ago, KjartanEno said:

I appreciate a good challenge. I've done the simple reproduction of the issue which you wrote about. I've also added my own test prim to the mix to see how well the materials should work under a 'fixed' EEP Sunset. I could have spent more time tweaking the Personal Lighting settings in this test, but I believe I've made my point well enough. The shine is fine. The presets are currently broken.

Sigh, what has this to do with complaining about my simple repro that shows the differences between EEP and Pre-EEP? What have gloss maps, and environment reflection masks to do with it either, when you need to change the sun color to get the desired effect anyway?

I already told you that I'm not that much interested in how the Lab is going to fix it. I leave that to the Devs at Linden Lab.

[KjartanEno]

19 hours ago, arton Rotaru said:

Sigh, what has this to do with complaining about my simple repro that shows the differences between EEP and Pre-EEP? What have gloss maps, and environment reflection masks to do with it either, when you need to change the sun color to get the desired effect anyway?

I already told you that I'm not that much interested in how the Lab is going to fix it. I leave that to the Devs at Linden Lab.

I apologize if it seems like I'm being pedantic on the issue. I agree with your general observation about the presets. I'm also not sure how much attention the Lindens are paying to the feedback on this thread, but I want to give my own perspective on the current state of development. Hopefully the end result will be something that we both find acceptable.

[arton Rotaru]

3 hours ago, KjartanEno said:

Hopefully the end result will be something that we both find acceptable.

I feel pretty confident that the Devs at Linden Lab will work it out.

[KjartanEno]

7 hours ago, arton Rotaru said:

I feel pretty confident that the Devs at Linden Lab will work it out.

I believe they've already been working on it. Henri released an update for Cool VL Viewer today, and I'm using it now. The Cool VL Viewer release notes state: Backported from LL's viewer "revert part of SL-12978 change that broke low-angle sunlight" http://sldev.free.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=81&start=520#p10003

Going by the LL viewer release notes, this change hasn't made it to any official viewer as of today, and please do correct me if I'm wrong about that. https://releasenotes.secondlife.com/index.html

Now, based on my tests so far, this may or may not be the change you wanted. Henri's viewer has the same sun/moon brightness and specularity as Love Me Render RC in v1.28.0.6. However, v1.28.0.7 has the above mentioned fix for the low-angle sunlight. I can no longer create a custom Sunset preset that looks like Firestorm 6.3.9 with the new fix.

@Henri Beauchamp, I really appreciate the fact that you keep the Cool VL Viewer so up to date. Are the sudden sky transitions also part of LL's code changes? Edit: Only the sky above 3500m changed instantly for some reason. Transitions happened normally when I visited another sim at a lower elevation.

Edited September 6, 2020 by KjartanEno
clarification & more info

[arton Rotaru]

1 hour ago, KjartanEno said:

I believe they've already been working on it. Henri released an update for Cool VL Viewer today, and I'm using it now. The Cool VL Viewer release notes state: Backported from LL's viewer "revert part of SL-12978 change that broke low-angle sunlight" http://sldev.free.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=81&start=520#p10003

Going by the LL viewer release notes, this change hasn't made it to any official viewer as of today, and please do correct me if I'm wrong about that. https://releasenotes.secondlife.com/index.html

Yeah, these changes will be in the next LMR RC viewer. I guess it will be released next week. Perhaps there will be some more changes in this next release, IDK. The code Henri already pulled in his latest release is from 3 days ago.

1 hour ago, KjartanEno said:

this may or may not be the change you wanted.

Judging from the images, it looks too dim again. I'll wait for the next LMR viewer to check it out. At least there is progress. We went from too dim, to too strong and, now something inbetween. Looks promising that we will be getting there.

[KjartanEno]

A new Love Me Render RC viewer is out, so I logged into Windblows to get the update. So far, I like what I see. At first the dimness of the moon had me perplexed. According to the code commits, some changes have been made to the way the moon is rendered, so EEP night skies may no longer work as they did before. Just set the LMR viewer to midnight and look up at the moon to see what I mean. However, with some tweaking, moonlit night skies can be made to work again. Keep in mind that the moon will appear to be far dimmer than before, thus the brightness of the texture may need to be set much higher. Increasing the light to get a brighter looking moon will affect how objects look at night, and that may not be what you want to see. Of course, one can always upload a lighter moon texture.

Here is a space scene I set up with a custom EEP sky that I made. The apparent brightness of the moon is due to the fact that the sun is also above the 'horizon' and set to maximum brightness.

 

[Coby Foden]

I'm wondering why the default moon texture in EEP is black and white? Sure we can change the texture to something more realistic one. But still, why the default is not colour image? Is there some specific reason for it? In RL sky the moon definitly is not black and white.

[Stevie Davros]

I think it is just the same old moon as before. They are leaving it up to users to add content.  The same goes to the clouds, which remain the same old low resolution peril noise fuzz as before.

I have some Moons available for a modest price in Marketplace:
https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/Replacement-Moons-Pack-EEP/20096383

[Da5id Weatherwax]

On 9/25/2020 at 5:50 PM, KjartanEno said:

Here is a space scene I set up with a custom EEP sky that I made.

Love the Eagle and Space:1999 accurate suit   Gerry Anderson is reaching in from the void to  pat you on the back

Edited October 4, 2020 by Da5id Weatherwax

[Love Zhaoying]

On 9/26/2020 at 9:54 PM, Stevie Davros said:

I think it is just the same old moon as before. They are leaving it up to users to add content.  The same goes to the clouds, which remain the same old low resolution peril noise fuzz as before.

I have some Moons available for a modest price in Marketplace:
https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/Replacement-Moons-Pack-EEP/20096383

So, when I say, "Moon me!" - you can!

[Nova Convair]

I replaced the sun:

and the moon with a globular star cluster:

 

I think eep has potential
 

[KjartanEno]

About the only complaint I have left with EEP are the fairly recent changes to the moon. It used to be possible to have a moon texture that remained visible within several degrees of the horizon, but now SL has a permanent dense 'haze' no matter what settings are used. A fully white moon texture set to maximum brightness just above the horizon is either invisible or dark grey. You won't be able to enjoy the moon setting over the sea because chances are you'll never see it, but the light from it will reflect on the water anyway.

[Coby Foden]

59 minutes ago, KjartanEno said:

It used to be possible to have a moon texture that remained visible within several degrees of the horizon, but now SL has a permanent dense 'haze' no matter what settings are used.

Indeed, the moon visibility when it's low, close to the horizon is totally destroyed now. It's just a very dark barely noticeable disk. Earlier the moon was very nice even near the horizon. The EEP appears to go the route "fix something, break something". 😠

Happens in: Second Life Release 6.4.9.549455 (64bit)

@Linden Lab

[KjartanEno]

17 minutes ago, Coby Foden said:

Happens in: Second Life Release 6.4.9.549455 (64bit)

Yes, users of the Firestorm beta 6.4.5 will not notice this issue. From the code commits I looked at, it was one of the last changes made to Love Me Render before the merge into the default viewer. I have a crazy guess that they realized that the Sunrise/Sunset presets were borked, along with any day cycle that involved the Sun being low on the horizon, due to the old WL 'haze' not existing in EEP originally. Instead of fixing presets, the ugly and limiting 'haze' was put in at the last minute in an attempt to satisfy users complaining that the Sunset/Sunrise light and specular were too bright. My previous posts in this thread showed that a very convincing Sunset preset nearly identical to the old WL version could have been made without the 'haze.' Not only that, but sky and day cycle creation would not have been artificially limited by something beyond user control. If I want to have a big, bright moon right on the horizon for whatever reason, I should not be prevented from seeing it exactly how I imagine it.

[Lucia Nightfire]

9 hours ago, Coby Foden said:

Indeed, the moon visibility when it's low, close to the horizon is totally destroyed now. It's just a very dark barely noticeable disk. Earlier the moon was very nice even near the horizon. The EEP appears to go the route "fix something, break something". 😠

Happens in: Second Life Release 6.4.9.549455 (64bit)

@Linden Lab

Please file a bug report with steps and/or EEP assets that repro the issue, else nothing will be done about it by just commenting here.

https://jira.secondlife.com/

[Willow Wilder]

On 10/9/2020 at 9:29 AM, KjartanEno said:

About the only complaint I have left with EEP are the fairly recent changes to the moon. It used to be possible to have a moon texture that remained visible within several degrees of the horizon, but now SL has a permanent dense 'haze' no matter what settings are used. A fully white moon texture set to maximum brightness just above the horizon is either invisible or dark grey. You won't be able to enjoy the moon setting over the sea because chances are you'll never see it, but the light from it will reflect on the water anyway.

Would you submit a bug report for this please? https://jira.secondlife.com/ 

[KjartanEno]

2 hours ago, Willow Wilder said:

Would you submit a bug report for this please? https://jira.secondlife.com/ 

Done.

https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-229489

[Ai Austin]

Its also being reported in Firestorm 6.4.10 Beta as a major bug. But as noted in this Forum, the issue is actually one of the LL core code "fixes" from the Love Me Render #4 changes. The LL folks attempted to fix an issue and have made things worse for many use vases for people trying to use EEP.

See https://jira.firestormviewer.org/browse/FIRE-30410

 

Edited October 12, 2020 by Ai Austin

[animats]

3 hours ago, Ai Austin said:

 

See https://jira.firestormviewer.org/browse/FIRE-30410

 

"Moon is too dark near the horizon" bug.

I'm tempted to add "Moon is always full" and "Moon is too big" as bugs.

[Stevie Davros]

12 minutes ago, animats said:

"Moon is too dark near the horizon" bug.

I'm tempted to add "Moon is always full" and "Moon is too big" as bugs.

EEP resolves this. Adjustable size and adjustable phases.  See here for examples:
https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/Replacement-Moons-Pack-EEP/20096383

[KjartanEno]

2 hours ago, animats said:

"Moon is too dark near the horizon" bug.

I'm tempted to add "Moon is always full" and "Moon is too big" as bugs.

The moon doesn't have to be full, and the day cycle can follow a path that isn't overhead (with a lot of sky settings).

[Illumine Demina]

EEP is looking really good, but I'm not liking the Sun/Moon trackballs for Personal Lighting or Sky Presets. It is really hard to fine tune a position.  As an SL photographer it is not unusual to want to position sun/moon quite precisely to cast shadows as desired.  The old position and east angle sliders were much easier to fine tune, largely because they responded to the left/right arrow keys by changing in small discrete steps.  If the track balls, when focused, were to respond to the left/right/up/down arrow keys in the same way, that would be fantastic!  Or maybe there is another approach to such fine tuning?  The trackballs as I'm using them are a big step in the wrong direction.   Perhaps there is a bug/feature list where this ought to go?  Thx!

[Stevie Davros]

I find that clicking on the E, W, N and S arrows gives me the fine control of movement of the Sun or Moon.  I agree that click dragging the actual ball about is a bit rough and hit or miss.

[panterapolnocy]

If you'd like to move the Sun / Moon "ball" without using the mouse then you can actually just click once on any of the E/N/W/S arrows that @Stevie Davros mentioned above to "select" the "joystick" - and then press on any of the arrow keys on your keyboard to move the "ball" around.