Jump to content
Alexa Linden

Environmental Enhancement Project (aka EEP!) Feedback Thread

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)

@NiranV Dean :

1. I use that Color i want and thats black as usual.

2. I dont think that EEP is far away from being useable. We use it on both of our Regions and that daily and never wont get back to the old System. Ok ist a bit more Work to make all Settings we use here Looking really perfect as it is in RL but thats why EEP is for and Guys, like you, better wait until others made good Settings for you when you´re too lazy to do it. 

3. As Rider Linden said: Have you ever filed a Jira about that perrmanently Crashes you had with that one Built? I dont think so.

4. What i ment is that the latest Serverbuilt for Magnum is a weak Compromise between to be or not to be cause it doesnt really show that 24 Hour Settings properly on legacy Viewers as it normaly should be as it was anounced in the Release Notes and i was definatly not too lazy to contact the Support and tell it to them.

5. We all know that you dont like EEP really and you have told it us more than a lot of Times in your typical and primitive german Way. Slowly it enough. Get used to a decent tone or let yourself get involved in everything and just create a bad mood.

6. And who sits in the glass house should better not throw stones because even your latest viewer is affected by all of us well-known NVIDIA bug and can crash after quitting the screen but can be fixed by a simple restart of the screen. Only the latest Linden Release Viewer and Firestorm doesnt have that Problem.

Edited by Miller Thor

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
55 minutes ago, Rider Linden said:

Have you filed bugs in JIRA for your master list?

No, Whirly did that. It was Whirly who got me to test it in the first place.

image.thumb.png.c6a310efb487d978d90a4f17b8d4b6b9.png

1) I didn't tell you to not use any color, i asked you to stop using a color that makes lots of people basically unable to read your text unless they select it or switch the forum theme. Besides, setting black as text color is pointless anyway since you are most likely using the light theme which uses black text anyway, setting it makes no sense and only causes issues aside from costing you additional time to write your text.

2) You think that because you are not capable of understanding the issues EEP is having. From our conversation inworld i noticed that you showed no intention to understand the fact that EEP has a lot of rendering issues still, instead you are sweeping them under the rug and say that it is the users simply not knowing how to handle EEP yet. This isn't an issue of not knowing how to handle EEP, EEP's setting differences can easily be fixed when all the rendering issues are fixed, sure they will never look exactly again like they did before, they simply cant but that's hardly the point here.

3) No i haven't. Why should i file a Jira for a hidden side branch back in Viewer 1.1x times when the used code was clearly not meant for public consumption. It wasn't until ~1.2x that it came into the official viewer and until 2.0 that it was acknowledged as an official setting in preferences... and not until much later in Viewer 2's development that it was announced as official complete feature. Unlike EEP it just had instability issues which for a whole new rendering was extremely good, nothing looked broken, flickered, vanished or did other weird stuff. Everything was working, it was just crashing from time to time, something that took many years to get out of the Viewer even without Deferred.

4) Did you, really, expect an unsupported day-cycle length to be properly displayed in the Viewer? This is not a server thing, the server gives you the daycycle preset which is essentially just some basic settings such as length and position as well as the list of used presets for the daycycle, if your Viewer caps at 4 hours, it will do so regardless of what the server says because the Viewer simply doesn't support it, of course it will look broken.

5) I never said i don't like EEP. I'm simply not hyped for it anymore, not since Atmospheric Scattering wasnt to be included due to performance issues. I'm just extremely harsh about EEP because it deserves to. It has a long history that i complain about things but in all those years since i started actually caring about Second Life i've haven't seen anything like EEP, i complain about a lot of things, things that annoy me, things that i think LL does wrong, i do say nice things too... sometimes... if they are deserved of course. EEP so far hasn't earned anything but my criticism simply because there is nothing i see that deserves any good words. The UI is atrociously bad, it is huge, wastes half my screen even when using the day-cycle editor which includes all windows in one (and i've shown just for fun that it could be much smaller) and the XML files aren't better in any way, EEP rendering itself has more bugs than i can count with both hands and my feet and those aren't simple bugs either, they show a fundamentally broken rendering everywhere. What takes the cake however is the fact that LL was considering to release this in such a horrible state because apparently everyone here was just sugarcoating EEP like it was Jesus's second coming, when i scroll back the pages and look through reported issues i see lots of "horray this is so awesome, wow look at what i made" and a little "hey this looks a bit weird" sprinkled inbetween, no one seemed to have raised concern over its actual horrible broken state and that started to concern a few other people who actually care, namely Whirly who contacted me and asked me to look into EEP. When Whirly is so concerned that she asks ME to look into it and give it my ranting then YOU should be all the more concerned. I don't hate EEP and i don't hate everyone who is involved in it, i'm just super concerned that EEP is going to be released as the *****show it is right now and that would not only mean that your windlights would break, no... rendering would be totally broken for everyone and it would be live on a large amount of users, this would create a *****storm of epic proportions... that is if people even notice. Seeing how little people here saw the issues before i pointed them out worries me even more, how many more people would see these issues if it went live? It would be a catastrophy if this broken rendering would become the new "default". So IF ANYTHING, i'm extremely worried about EEP.

6) Great you had to bring it up. Look, my Viewer is usually one of the first to adapt recent LL Viewer changes (aside from Cool VL), just because i don't have a fix yet that was just recently released a few days ago doesn't mean that i'm standing in a glass house throwing stones. It's the total opposite i'd say, the fix is already planned to be included in the next update which just happened to take a lot longer due to ... technical problems because unlike EEP i wanted to get my ***** right, which is why i sat the last 9 days alone working on these goddamn profiles day and night and i'm still not fully done, they are working, they look nice and should provide almost if not complete functionality, they just need some touch-ups and maybe a fix here and there which i missed, which will come later. I haven't exactly been sleeping the past few weeks, i've already said on multiple occasions that the fix (as soon as it was released as RC) will be included in my next update which will be soon.

But and that's something you should never ever do again, you seriously compare my Viewer to that of Firestorm and say that even Firestorm has it fixed? Let me tell you something: Firestorm whenever a new release comes out is outdated, every, single, time, their current version is still on 6.0.2 which didn't have this issue YET, the issue only happens in later versions in conjunction with the latest Windows 10 Update 1903. The windows update 1903 came after said 6.0.2 update, so at the point this issue surfaced everyone who wasn't lucky enough to be on older versions was screwed, lucky for Firestorm they were outdated, their version and all older ones are not subject to this bug. Bad for me because unlike Firestorm my Viewer is more recent so it was hit by said bug and when said bug surfaced i was in the middle of a huge rework which i couldnt just drop, so i had to power through this the past 2 weeks to get it done in a decent fashion and FINALLY give my users the update they need to have this bug fixed. So don't tell me i'm sitting in a glass house throwing stones, i have been hard at work making sure i don't do the same mistakes i'm constantly ranting about here but it's hilarious to see you bringing up this issue in conjunction with my Viewer, you know if i wasn't stuck in this rework hell i would have had a fixed released 2 weeks ago already but theres this one time Niran takes a bit longer than usual and suddenly the stars align and someone jumps out of the corner and points at me how bad i am for not having a release ready with a fix that was just released. Oh boy.

Edited by NiranV Dean
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Miller Thor said:

1. I use that Color i want and thats black as usual.

image.png.c74cad7d3942658ad6148bede5f254ee.png

It's a free country, but it's impossible for me to read black text on a dark grey background without setting the screen brightness so high that it gives me eyestrain.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, Miller Thor said:

6. And who sits in the glass house should better not throw stones because even your latest viewer is affected by all of us well-known NVIDIA bug and can crash after quitting the screen but can be fixed by a simple restart of the screen. Only the latest Linden Release Viewer and Firestorm doesnt have that Problem.

 

19 hours ago, NiranV Dean said:

6) Great you had to bring it up. Look, my Viewer is usually one of the first to adapt recent LL Viewer changes (aside from Cool VL), just because i don't have a fix yet that was just recently released a few days ago doesn't mean that i'm standing in a glass house throwing stones. It's the total opposite i'd say, the fix is already planned to be included in the next update which just happened to take a lot longer due to ... technical problems because unlike EEP i wanted to get my ***** right, which is why i sat the last 9 days alone working on these goddamn profiles day and night and i'm still not fully done, they are working, they look nice and should provide almost if not complete functionality, they just need some touch-ups and maybe a fix here and there which i missed, which will come later. I haven't exactly been sleeping the past few weeks, i've already said on multiple occasions that the fix (as soon as it was released as RC) will be included in my next update which will be soon.

But and that's something you should never ever do again, you seriously compare my Viewer to that of Firestorm and say that even Firestorm has it fixed? Let me tell you something: Firestorm whenever a new release comes out is outdated, every, single, time, their current version is still on 6.0.2 which didn't have this issue YET, the issue only happens in later versions in conjunction with the latest Windows 10 Update 1903. The windows update 1903 came after said 6.0.2 update, so at the point this issue surfaced everyone who wasn't lucky enough to be on older versions was screwed, lucky for Firestorm they were outdated, their version and all older ones are not subject to this bug. Bad for me because unlike Firestorm my Viewer is more recent so it was hit by said bug and when said bug surfaced i was in the middle of a huge rework which i couldnt just drop, so i had to power through this the past 2 weeks to get it done in a decent fashion and FINALLY give my users the update they need to have this bug fixed. So don't tell me i'm sitting in a glass house throwing stones, i have been hard at work making sure i don't do the same mistakes i'm constantly ranting about here but it's hilarious to see you bringing up this issue in conjunction with my Viewer, you know if i wasn't stuck in this rework hell i would have had a fixed released 2 weeks ago already but theres this one time Niran takes a bit longer than usual and suddenly the stars align and someone jumps out of the corner and points at me how bad i am for not having a release ready with a fix that was just released. Oh boy. 

Just wanted to add a bit of info about this bug.

BUG-226803 - [Win] [nvidia] on exiting Second Life system video is distorted due to custom color profile

BUG-227042 - When exiting the LL SL viewer graphics are borked

This new bug is specific to the latest Windows 10 1903 update.
It's not actually Nvidia specific, it also affects systems with AMD & Intel graphics this time.
It will affect any viewers that don't have the fix, even really old viewers.
Firestorm has had this bug fixed for years because the same bug happens on Nvidia systems only on older versions of Windows if the user is using a custom colour profile, eg) they are using f.lux, MSI True Color, or Windows Night Light for example. The fix Firestorm had for this older bug also happens to fix this new bug with the Win 10 update because the root cause is the same.
The fix in Firestorm was actually contributed to us from Alchemy Viewer & it's the same fix Alchemy contributed to the LL viewer when this new version of the bug popped up with the Win 10 update & started to affect a lot of users.

For those running a viewer without the fix, there is a simple workaround.
After exiting the viewer, use the shortcut CTRL+SHIFT+WIN+B to reset the graphics adapter.

 

  • Thanks 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Whirly Fizzle said:

 

Just wanted to add a bit of info about this bug.

BUG-226803 - [Win] [nvidia] on exiting Second Life system video is distorted due to custom color profile

BUG-227042 - When exiting the LL SL viewer graphics are borked

This new bug is specific to the latest Windows 10 1903 update.
It's not actually Nvidia specific, it also affects systems with AMD & Intel graphics this time.
It will affect any viewers that don't have the fix, even really old viewers.
Firestorm has had this bug fixed for years because the same bug happens on Nvidia systems only on older versions of Windows if the user is using a custom colour profile, eg) they are using f.lux, MSI True Color, or Windows Night Light for example. The fix Firestorm had for this older bug also happens to fix this new bug with the Win 10 update because the root cause is the same.
The fix in Firestorm was actually contributed to us from Alchemy Viewer & it's the same fix Alchemy contributed to the LL viewer when this new version of the bug popped up with the Win 10 update & started to affect a lot of users.

For those running a viewer without the fix, there is a simple workaround.
After exiting the viewer, use the shortcut CTRL+SHIFT+WIN+B to reset the graphics adapter.

 

Well yes thank you Whirly. I had assumed that Firestorm wasn't getting this issue due to being not on the latest version. Apparently my older viewer versions are not having this issue either, can't tell how old since i don't have Windows 10 and i'm not getting this issue (otherwise it would have been fixed long ago already) but i'd guess that going back just a few versions, possibly at the start of animesh (6.0.x) would solve it. People who are reporting this issue are reporting that they have been starting to see this only after they updated the Viewer... but then again its users, who knows if they haven't updated their windows as well.

Point is: I am aware of the issue since the very first day and the fix is already planned to be merged, when i'm done with this other stuff.

Edited by NiranV Dean

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On 6/21/2019 at 7:47 PM, Miller Thor said:

1. I use that Color i want and thats black as usual.

Can you read the text below what I intentionally made with white text?
[Start white text -->] Here is something with white text. Can you read this when the default forum theme is on? [End white text]

Did you see the white text? Ok, you didn't, if you're using forum default theme (i.e light background).
The same happens when somebody uses dark forum theme, they cannot see your black text. Is that your intention?

 

Edited by Coby Foden
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, dstauffsl2 said:

Can we just have a legacy environment option so I can pass entirely on this "improvement"?

This x1000. This is what I thought I was doing when I opted to just make my own region day cycle anyway a few months ago instead of waiting for EEP to be viable. And then, they broke region day cycles. Which are still broken as of this week. 

Edited by Katarin Kiergarten
Missing clarification

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/7/2019 at 7:43 AM, Katarin Kiergarten said:

This x1000. This is what I thought I was doing when I opted to just make my own region day cycle anyway a few months ago instead of waiting for EEP to be viable. And then, they broke region day cycles. Which are still broken as of this week. 

 

On 7/6/2019 at 3:33 PM, dstauffsl2 said:

Can we just have a legacy environment option so I can pass entirely on this "improvement"?

You cant. This is a whole new lighting plus a whole new way all the windlight values are translated, you can't just "opt out". This is a one-way trip.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...