Environmental Enhancement Project (aka EEP!) Feedback Thread

[Miller Thor]

@NiranV Dean :

1. I use that Color i want and thats black as usual.

2. I dont think that EEP is far away from being useable. We use it on both of our Regions and that daily and never wont get back to the old System. Ok ist a bit more Work to make all Settings we use here Looking really perfect as it is in RL but thats why EEP is for and Guys, like you, better wait until others made good Settings for you when you´re too lazy to do it. 

3. As Rider Linden said: Have you ever filed a Jira about that perrmanently Crashes you had with that one Built? I dont think so.

4. What i ment is that the latest Serverbuilt for Magnum is a weak Compromise between to be or not to be cause it doesnt really show that 24 Hour Settings properly on legacy Viewers as it normaly should be as it was anounced in the Release Notes and i was definatly not too lazy to contact the Support and tell it to them.

5. We all know that you dont like EEP really and you have told it us more than a lot of Times in your typical and primitive german Way. Slowly it enough. Get used to a decent tone or let yourself get involved in everything and just create a bad mood.

6. And who sits in the glass house should better not throw stones because even your latest viewer is affected by all of us well-known NVIDIA bug and can crash after quitting the screen but can be fixed by a simple restart of the screen. Only the latest Linden Release Viewer and Firestorm doesnt have that Problem.

Edited June 22, 2019 by Miller Thor

[NiranV Dean]

55 minutes ago, Rider Linden said:

Have you filed bugs in JIRA for your master list?

No, Whirly did that. It was Whirly who got me to test it in the first place.

1) I didn't tell you to not use any color, i asked you to stop using a color that makes lots of people basically unable to read your text unless they select it or switch the forum theme. Besides, setting black as text color is pointless anyway since you are most likely using the light theme which uses black text anyway, setting it makes no sense and only causes issues aside from costing you additional time to write your text.

2) You think that because you are not capable of understanding the issues EEP is having. From our conversation inworld i noticed that you showed no intention to understand the fact that EEP has a lot of rendering issues still, instead you are sweeping them under the rug and say that it is the users simply not knowing how to handle EEP yet. This isn't an issue of not knowing how to handle EEP, EEP's setting differences can easily be fixed when all the rendering issues are fixed, sure they will never look exactly again like they did before, they simply cant but that's hardly the point here.

3) No i haven't. Why should i file a Jira for a hidden side branch back in Viewer 1.1x times when the used code was clearly not meant for public consumption. It wasn't until ~1.2x that it came into the official viewer and until 2.0 that it was acknowledged as an official setting in preferences... and not until much later in Viewer 2's development that it was announced as official complete feature. Unlike EEP it just had instability issues which for a whole new rendering was extremely good, nothing looked broken, flickered, vanished or did other weird stuff. Everything was working, it was just crashing from time to time, something that took many years to get out of the Viewer even without Deferred.

4) Did you, really, expect an unsupported day-cycle length to be properly displayed in the Viewer? This is not a server thing, the server gives you the daycycle preset which is essentially just some basic settings such as length and position as well as the list of used presets for the daycycle, if your Viewer caps at 4 hours, it will do so regardless of what the server says because the Viewer simply doesn't support it, of course it will look broken.

5) I never said i don't like EEP. I'm simply not hyped for it anymore, not since Atmospheric Scattering wasnt to be included due to performance issues. I'm just extremely harsh about EEP because it deserves to. It has a long history that i complain about things but in all those years since i started actually caring about Second Life i've haven't seen anything like EEP, i complain about a lot of things, things that annoy me, things that i think LL does wrong, i do say nice things too... sometimes... if they are deserved of course. EEP so far hasn't earned anything but my criticism simply because there is nothing i see that deserves any good words. The UI is atrociously bad, it is huge, wastes half my screen even when using the day-cycle editor which includes all windows in one (and i've shown just for fun that it could be much smaller) and the XML files aren't better in any way, EEP rendering itself has more bugs than i can count with both hands and my feet and those aren't simple bugs either, they show a fundamentally broken rendering everywhere. What takes the cake however is the fact that LL was considering to release this in such a horrible state because apparently everyone here was just sugarcoating EEP like it was Jesus's second coming, when i scroll back the pages and look through reported issues i see lots of "horray this is so awesome, wow look at what i made" and a little "hey this looks a bit weird" sprinkled inbetween, no one seemed to have raised concern over its actual horrible broken state and that started to concern a few other people who actually care, namely Whirly who contacted me and asked me to look into EEP. When Whirly is so concerned that she asks ME to look into it and give it my ranting then YOU should be all the more concerned. I don't hate EEP and i don't hate everyone who is involved in it, i'm just super concerned that EEP is going to be released as the *****show it is right now and that would not only mean that your windlights would break, no... rendering would be totally broken for everyone and it would be live on a large amount of users, this would create a *****storm of epic proportions... that is if people even notice. Seeing how little people here saw the issues before i pointed them out worries me even more, how many more people would see these issues if it went live? It would be a catastrophy if this broken rendering would become the new "default". So IF ANYTHING, i'm extremely worried about EEP.

6) Great you had to bring it up. Look, my Viewer is usually one of the first to adapt recent LL Viewer changes (aside from Cool VL), just because i don't have a fix yet that was just recently released a few days ago doesn't mean that i'm standing in a glass house throwing stones. It's the total opposite i'd say, the fix is already planned to be included in the next update which just happened to take a lot longer due to ... technical problems because unlike EEP i wanted to get my ***** right, which is why i sat the last 9 days alone working on these goddamn profiles day and night and i'm still not fully done, they are working, they look nice and should provide almost if not complete functionality, they just need some touch-ups and maybe a fix here and there which i missed, which will come later. I haven't exactly been sleeping the past few weeks, i've already said on multiple occasions that the fix (as soon as it was released as RC) will be included in my next update which will be soon.

But and that's something you should never ever do again, you seriously compare my Viewer to that of Firestorm and say that even Firestorm has it fixed? Let me tell you something: Firestorm whenever a new release comes out is outdated, every, single, time, their current version is still on 6.0.2 which didn't have this issue YET, the issue only happens in later versions in conjunction with the latest Windows 10 Update 1903. The windows update 1903 came after said 6.0.2 update, so at the point this issue surfaced everyone who wasn't lucky enough to be on older versions was screwed, lucky for Firestorm they were outdated, their version and all older ones are not subject to this bug. Bad for me because unlike Firestorm my Viewer is more recent so it was hit by said bug and when said bug surfaced i was in the middle of a huge rework which i couldnt just drop, so i had to power through this the past 2 weeks to get it done in a decent fashion and FINALLY give my users the update they need to have this bug fixed. So don't tell me i'm sitting in a glass house throwing stones, i have been hard at work making sure i don't do the same mistakes i'm constantly ranting about here but it's hilarious to see you bringing up this issue in conjunction with my Viewer, you know if i wasn't stuck in this rework hell i would have had a fixed released 2 weeks ago already but theres this one time Niran takes a bit longer than usual and suddenly the stars align and someone jumps out of the corner and points at me how bad i am for not having a release ready with a fix that was just released. Oh boy.

Edited June 21, 2019 by NiranV Dean

[Ana Stubbs]

5 hours ago, Miller Thor said:

1. I use that Color i want and thats black as usual.

It's a free country, but it's impossible for me to read black text on a dark grey background without setting the screen brightness so high that it gives me eyestrain.

[Kyrah Abattoir]

There is a much easier solution, don't read people who obviously don't want to be read.

[Whirly Fizzle]

20 hours ago, Miller Thor said:

6. And who sits in the glass house should better not throw stones because even your latest viewer is affected by all of us well-known NVIDIA bug and can crash after quitting the screen but can be fixed by a simple restart of the screen. Only the latest Linden Release Viewer and Firestorm doesnt have that Problem.

 

19 hours ago, NiranV Dean said:

6) Great you had to bring it up. Look, my Viewer is usually one of the first to adapt recent LL Viewer changes (aside from Cool VL), just because i don't have a fix yet that was just recently released a few days ago doesn't mean that i'm standing in a glass house throwing stones. It's the total opposite i'd say, the fix is already planned to be included in the next update which just happened to take a lot longer due to ... technical problems because unlike EEP i wanted to get my ***** right, which is why i sat the last 9 days alone working on these goddamn profiles day and night and i'm still not fully done, they are working, they look nice and should provide almost if not complete functionality, they just need some touch-ups and maybe a fix here and there which i missed, which will come later. I haven't exactly been sleeping the past few weeks, i've already said on multiple occasions that the fix (as soon as it was released as RC) will be included in my next update which will be soon.

But and that's something you should never ever do again, you seriously compare my Viewer to that of Firestorm and say that even Firestorm has it fixed? Let me tell you something: Firestorm whenever a new release comes out is outdated, every, single, time, their current version is still on 6.0.2 which didn't have this issue YET, the issue only happens in later versions in conjunction with the latest Windows 10 Update 1903. The windows update 1903 came after said 6.0.2 update, so at the point this issue surfaced everyone who wasn't lucky enough to be on older versions was screwed, lucky for Firestorm they were outdated, their version and all older ones are not subject to this bug. Bad for me because unlike Firestorm my Viewer is more recent so it was hit by said bug and when said bug surfaced i was in the middle of a huge rework which i couldnt just drop, so i had to power through this the past 2 weeks to get it done in a decent fashion and FINALLY give my users the update they need to have this bug fixed. So don't tell me i'm sitting in a glass house throwing stones, i have been hard at work making sure i don't do the same mistakes i'm constantly ranting about here but it's hilarious to see you bringing up this issue in conjunction with my Viewer, you know if i wasn't stuck in this rework hell i would have had a fixed released 2 weeks ago already but theres this one time Niran takes a bit longer than usual and suddenly the stars align and someone jumps out of the corner and points at me how bad i am for not having a release ready with a fix that was just released. Oh boy. 

Just wanted to add a bit of info about this bug.

BUG-226803 - [Win] [nvidia] on exiting Second Life system video is distorted due to custom color profile

BUG-227042 - When exiting the LL SL viewer graphics are borked

This new bug is specific to the latest Windows 10 1903 update.
It's not actually Nvidia specific, it also affects systems with AMD & Intel graphics this time.
It will affect any viewers that don't have the fix, even really old viewers.
Firestorm has had this bug fixed for years because the same bug happens on Nvidia systems only on older versions of Windows if the user is using a custom colour profile, eg) they are using f.lux, MSI True Color, or Windows Night Light for example. The fix Firestorm had for this older bug also happens to fix this new bug with the Win 10 update because the root cause is the same.
The fix in Firestorm was actually contributed to us from Alchemy Viewer & it's the same fix Alchemy contributed to the LL viewer when this new version of the bug popped up with the Win 10 update & started to affect a lot of users.

For those running a viewer without the fix, there is a simple workaround.
After exiting the viewer, use the shortcut CTRL+SHIFT+WIN+B to reset the graphics adapter.

 

[NiranV Dean]

7 minutes ago, Whirly Fizzle said:

 

Just wanted to add a bit of info about this bug.

BUG-226803 - [Win] [nvidia] on exiting Second Life system video is distorted due to custom color profile

BUG-227042 - When exiting the LL SL viewer graphics are borked

This new bug is specific to the latest Windows 10 1903 update.
It's not actually Nvidia specific, it also affects systems with AMD & Intel graphics this time.
It will affect any viewers that don't have the fix, even really old viewers.
Firestorm has had this bug fixed for years because the same bug happens on Nvidia systems only on older versions of Windows if the user is using a custom colour profile, eg) they are using f.lux, MSI True Color, or Windows Night Light for example. The fix Firestorm had for this older bug also happens to fix this new bug with the Win 10 update because the root cause is the same.
The fix in Firestorm was actually contributed to us from Alchemy Viewer & it's the same fix Alchemy contributed to the LL viewer when this new version of the bug popped up with the Win 10 update & started to affect a lot of users.

For those running a viewer without the fix, there is a simple workaround.
After exiting the viewer, use the shortcut CTRL+SHIFT+WIN+B to reset the graphics adapter.

 

Well yes thank you Whirly. I had assumed that Firestorm wasn't getting this issue due to being not on the latest version. Apparently my older viewer versions are not having this issue either, can't tell how old since i don't have Windows 10 and i'm not getting this issue (otherwise it would have been fixed long ago already) but i'd guess that going back just a few versions, possibly at the start of animesh (6.0.x) would solve it. People who are reporting this issue are reporting that they have been starting to see this only after they updated the Viewer... but then again its users, who knows if they haven't updated their windows as well.

Point is: I am aware of the issue since the very first day and the fix is already planned to be merged, when i'm done with this other stuff.

Edited June 22, 2019 by NiranV Dean

[Coby Foden]

On 6/21/2019 at 7:47 PM, Miller Thor said:

1. I use that Color i want and thats black as usual.

Can you read the text below what I intentionally made with white text?
[Start white text -->] Here is something with white text. Can you read this when the default forum theme is on? [End white text]

Did you see the white text? Ok, you didn't, if you're using forum default theme (i.e light background).
The same happens when somebody uses dark forum theme, they cannot see your black text. Is that your intention?

 

Edited June 22, 2019 by Coby Foden

[dstauffsl2]

Can we just have a legacy environment option so I can pass entirely on this "improvement"?

[Katarin Kiergarten]

16 hours ago, dstauffsl2 said:

Can we just have a legacy environment option so I can pass entirely on this "improvement"?

This x1000. This is what I thought I was doing when I opted to just make my own region day cycle anyway a few months ago instead of waiting for EEP to be viable. And then, they broke region day cycles. Which are still broken as of this week. 

Edited July 7, 2019 by Katarin Kiergarten
Missing clarification

[NiranV Dean]

On 7/7/2019 at 7:43 AM, Katarin Kiergarten said:

This x1000. This is what I thought I was doing when I opted to just make my own region day cycle anyway a few months ago instead of waiting for EEP to be viable. And then, they broke region day cycles. Which are still broken as of this week. 

 

On 7/6/2019 at 3:33 PM, dstauffsl2 said:

Can we just have a legacy environment option so I can pass entirely on this "improvement"?

You cant. This is a whole new lighting plus a whole new way all the windlight values are translated, you can't just "opt out". This is a one-way trip.

[NiranV Dean]

Gave the latest 6.3.0 another spin. I'm positively surprised, first look looks infinitely better.

Lets go through my buglist. (strikethrough is fixed, bold is new)

On 5/22/2019 at 5:07 PM, NiranV Dean said:

Shadows:

• Shadows get stuck and rotate with the camera when looking top down from max camera distance
• Shadows vanish or completely shadow the entire scene when looking topdown from max camera distance
• Smaller shadows vanish immediately after zooming away 1-2m visible on the feet of my skunk
• Shadows still cut off when zooming too close from a vertical angle
• Changing shadow resolution via RenderShadowResolutionScale totally breaks shadows

Lighting:

• Lighting is absolutely overblown now
• Glow on shiny is still too strong
• Projectors are still cutting off hard on shiny and alpha surfaces (seen on spheres)
• Projectors light surfaces are flickering like crazy
• Shininess on some metallic beams are way too weak or non existent at all
• HUDs are darkened
• Lights are being culled much further away than anything else even when everything is already gone they are still there
• Fullbrights still shine through fog, weaker but still do, really foggy ones show this problem well.
• Sky is still only very weakly fogged in comparison to the world and water
• Sky is not fogged at all

Water:

• Water is unfogged
• Water still vanishes when zooming close
• Water randomly flashes brightly or darker
• Water is too bright on shorelines
• Water reflections are too bright
• Water reflections from beneath are too dark
• Water vanishes from beneath as well when zooming too close
• Water reflections get culled when zooming flat too close to the water surface
• Water still occasionally is not rendered fast enough at the edge of the screen when rotating the camera around

UI:

• Lots of important controls are still missing for personal lighting
• Water settings are completely missing for personal lighting
• Many Water settings are still missing.
• You still cannot bulk-import windlights
• You still cannot simply use local presets rather than importing them (compatibility with old presets is basically 0)
• The UI is still huge and wastes tremendous amounts of space for no reason
• Selecting personal presets is still cumbersome and done via the inventory or an extra inventory list rather than a simple dropdown menu
• There is no window anymore to have all preset types and general settings in one window (the old Environment Settings window where you could select all presets easily from dropdowns)

Rendering:

• Performance is absolutely abyssmal, getting 10 FPS and VOSky Forced Update is taking up all the rendering time.

Overall i'd call this some good progress at least the first thing people see is almost the same to what we were used to now. There are still quite a lot of issues to work out tho, all the details and a bunch of fundamental flaws and showstoppers are still in there.

Edited July 18, 2019 by NiranV Dean

[Karma Avedon]

None of the above is acceptable and that Niran is describing this as  "ifinitalely better" than previous versions is mortifying.

Where are the residents who were asking for this? How many resident have pushed LL for something like this? I am not going to come right out and say that they don't exist, but it is not a stretch to consider that to be the fact. I have yet to hear from a single one of them on any forum.

It truly does sound like a wonderful idea on paper, but it also sounds like a horrible nightmare when actually tested as something that can actually enhance the Sl experience. I would love to hear the process that went into deciding, "yes, this is definitely a project that people would want and that we should invest SIGNIFICANT time and resources on? Are ideas just thought up randomly at a meeting and put in a hat? This is not sarcasm. I think it is worth explaining the process that went into deciding that this was something anyone wanted and deciding that it was worth disregarding all the negative effects it will place on creatives who rely a lot on (pause) good lighting and good shadows. LL has a fairly small staff for what they need to do, so I can't help but think of the things that people actually want, that would be much easier to do, that have been tossed aside for something that , based on what is being said by the people creating it and using it right now, will likely change everything as far as graphics in world, and not in a good way.

Edited July 18, 2019 by Karma Avedon

[Love Zhaoying]

2 hours ago, NiranV Dean said:

Gave the latest 6.3.0 another spin. I'm positively surprised, first look looks infinitely better.

Lets go through my buglist. (strikethrough is fixed, bold is new)

Overall i'd call this some good progress at least the first thing people see is almost the same to what we were used to now. There are still quite a lot of issues to work out tho, all the details and a bunch of fundamental flaws and showstoppers are still in there.

Amazing how positive you sound, given how many items are still on your list! 

[NiranV Dean]

6 hours ago, Karma Avedon said:

None of the above is acceptable and that Niran is describing this as  "ifinitalely better" than previous versions is mortifying.

Where are the residents who were asking for this? How many resident have pushed LL for something like this? I am not going to come right out and say that they don't exist, but it is not a stretch to consider that to be the fact. I have yet to hear from a single one of them on any forum.

It truly does sound like a wonderful idea on paper, but it also sounds like a horrible nightmare when actually tested as something that can actually enhance the Sl experience. I would love to hear the process that went into deciding, "yes, this is definitely a project that people would want and that we should invest SIGNIFICANT time and resources on? Are ideas just thought up randomly at a meeting and put in a hat? This is not sarcasm. I think it is worth explaining the process that went into deciding that this was something anyone wanted and deciding that it was worth disregarding all the negative effects it will place on creatives who rely a lot on (pause) good lighting and good shadows. LL has a fairly small staff for what they need to do, so I can't help but think of the things that people actually want, that would be much easier to do, that have been tossed aside for something that , based on what is being said by the people creating it and using it right now, will likely change everything as far as graphics in world, and not in a good way.

Hold your horses right there.

And the "infinitely better" was solely and totally targeted at the downright broken rendering. EEP is still a massive cluster*****. What i was actually trying to say is "its on the right way" but as always still far from even release candidate worthy.

I know i've given EEP a lot of contra in the past and i still do, i'm just trying to say something positive where its due and the progress is better than expected, i truly and honestly didn't expect them to get the overall lighting back so close to the original.

4 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Amazing how positive you sound, given how many items are still on your list! 

I'm sorry. I... was in a good mood.

 

-----

But if all you see in me is pure negativity, sure i can give you the Niran-typical version of above post.

 

The progress is staggeringly slow and the extreme amount of remaining rendering bugs is a shame, its an insult to any person who calls themself a developer that you call this mess a release candidate, even worse that you dare to even think of this being "on a good way" to release, this release is still far from release and the UI is still attrocious and all our concerns about the entire permission system still haven't been adressed, they haven't even been looked into, it would be a lie to say that you are listening to us, all you are doing is damage control on a hopeless project. I have given you examples how to improve the UI, it doesn't take any genius to figure out that the entire permission system is crap and disallowing us to modify any preset at any time and saving it as our own, thus handling mere stupid presets as full blown marketable items is spitting on us machinima people who you are doing this for in the first place.

Edited July 18, 2019 by NiranV Dean

[Love Zhaoying]

25 minutes ago, NiranV Dean said:

4 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Amazing how positive you sound, given how many items are still on your list! 

 I'm sorry. I... was in a good mood.

Lol, good show! I meant no harm.

[Silas Merlin]

I installed 6.4.0.529247 (64bit) today and I'm quite happy with it.
It was quite bad for the last few releases, now it's very pretty again.

[NiranV Dean]

13 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Lol, good show! I meant no harm.

This is hardly a show, i'm dead *****ing serious.

I have long given up on EEP. EEP was dead the moment Oz made it clear that they are gonna pull through with this nonsensical marketable item bull***** and empower money driven people to rip off their userbase even more and make windlight unnecessarily more complex and hard to manage and just do what we do.

[Penny Patton]

On 7/18/2019 at 10:58 AM, NiranV Dean said:

EEP was dead the moment Oz made it clear that they are gonna pull through with this nonsensical marketable item bull***** and empower money driven people to rip off their userbase even more and make windlight unnecessarily more complex and hard to manage and just do what we do.

This right here. I had nothing but optimism for EEP until this.  This is so stupid. So incredibly stupid.

[Miller Thor]

In the past, downloadlinks for Windlight Settings were offered on Marketplace, in future the settings will be directly sellable. So where is the difference? EEP is the future and we will have to deal with it whether we like it or not. I personally like it very much. I have tested the current version EEP - 6.4.0.529247 for a very long time and am definitely of the opinion that EEP, even if 4 or 5 known problems are still open, has reached the readiness level. This opinion is not only me, but many other users as well. Even if the values of Mr. NiranV Dean does not fit in the junk, because he still thinks EEP is dead, but the dead say live longer than you think. While the new achievements of Niran are first-rate and I would also like to think that I wish Linden to implement them in future updates, they are not a hindrance to the public realease of the current base features offered by the current viewer EEP - 6.4.0.529247.
@ NiranV Dean personally said. You are a very smart guy, but you are selling yourself very badly. You can not go around and hold people's pistols to their breasts and, like at the last meeting, make them implement ideas without an alternative (quote: "yes or yes or yes"). This is unfortunately the wrong way you go. Give up your pointless protest and your bad faith and bring you in a meaningful, but also fair way in the project. It would also be nice if you could omit your vulgar expressions, because then you make yourself only unpopular with people whose vocabulary does not consist of fecal expressions.

 

[Penny Patton]

5 hours ago, Miller Thor said:

So where is the difference?

We'll have to see. It just seems like a whole lot of headaches for no real gain to me.

That said, I'm not on the "LL should abandon EEP and just stick with Windlight" bandwagon. I just want them to improve EEP before rolling it out.

The stars are still a major sticking point with me. They're too weak and too few. It's painfully obvious that those working on EEP have never seen a true night sky, away from the light pollution of a major city. Faking more stars using clouds is an imperfect solution (stars shouldn't be appearing as dull spots in front of the moon). Using texture replacers for the sun and moon to add the Milky Way to the sky is....alright, though I do wish LL had given us more options to add celestial objects, even if those additional sky elements wouldn't cast light like the sun and moon do.

I grew up in a rural area. Not so far from the city that I could clearly see the Milky Way, but far enough that the night sky looks like this:

Go further from the city, out to the state park, and the night sky looks more like this:

So why the hell is the EEP sky limited to this?

This is ridiculous. And I don't see any improvement since the first time I brought this up. @Rider Linden, before you declare EEP done, go on a camping trip. You clearly need to get out of the city and see the night sky for yourself.

[Kurshie Muromachi]

Totally agree with Penny. Would like to see some love given to night skies.

An example stars sky clouds I made with a sunset with the legacy system. This is a raw shot. Not super accurate to a real sky but was for fun. You might notice some color banding in the shot. Also evident in Penny's example. It would be great if the Windlight system attempted to blend (dither) colors. Or, if there's a better way, great.

[NiranV Dean]

EEP is already available to the masses if they so choose to.

EEP is also still way too buggy to make it into release, the rendering is still broken everywhere.

If EEP were to release now you'd see each and every Viewer who chose to merge it drop to single digit framerates for no reason. I'm getting no more than ~20 FPS in EEP at all times, even worse when i'm not in a completely empty place devoid of life. In comparison i get 50-70 FPS in my own Viewer without all these rendering issues. I'd be laughing at you having a slideshow of a framerate for no reason, i certainly wouldn't merge EEP, a few extra switchable textures is no reason for me to completely compromise performance.

Funny since i've always said i'd take single digit framerates to get full atmospheric scattering which they were planning to add with EEP but is now dropped and scheduled for the second phase of EEP.

Now look at EEP, what does EEP really offer that any other Viewer can't easily offer without breaking everthing? Nothing. Just for fun i should add sun textures and make the moon texture replaceable as well. Maybe add the 2-3 extra sliders in sky presets as well, funny part is that would make me almost 100% compatible with sky presets from EEP. Change a few min/max values of sliders and what's left? Nothing.

[Miller Thor]

One of the main features is the representation of real 24-hour day cycles as we use it from the beginning of EEP on our regions. One can not only blame the viewer, the regional software has as well as the allegedly correct representation of EEP settings looks great influence. Unfortunately, and one day after the release of this region update, I also published it here and as Jira, not all newly created settings are actually displayed accordingly, and thus, e.g. In the EEP viewer displayed correctly beautiful weather settings in the regular release versions extremely overexposed. By contrast, poorer bad weather phases are displayed correctly in the current viewers as well as in yours. You are cordially invited to come to us during the day and we will see the matter in a constructive meeting on site where we can also test the different settings and you can get an impression with both, your and the current EEP viewer. what I mean.

And in the future we prefer to carry out our personal controversies with a beer at the Kirchenwirt instead of here in public where it does not belong 😉 .

Edited August 10, 2019 by Miller Thor

[NiranV Dean]

24 hour daycycle isn't exactly a feature i'd die for. As far as i can tell its a mere case of "raise the number". I'd rather want smooth daycycles back from Viewer 1 times, where it didn't "jump" from one 5 minute tick to another but rather actually moved in realtime the whole time. See:

This isn't about the "differences" between EEP and non-EEP anymore, those have been mostly solved, there's always going to be a tiny difference, we're speaking of completely altering how lighting and atmosphere is handled. I'm talking about all the bugs in and around EEP. You don't seem to read the buglist do you?

[Miller Thor]

I know both the bug list from Linden see https://releasenotes.secondlife.com/viewer/6.4.0.529247.html as well as yours. Of course, I believe first and foremost that of Linden, since one must of course assume that it also corresponds to what is fact. Therefore, I also wrote 4 or 5 known bugs that I consider more than flaws rather than affecting the pure functionality of the system.
On the following pictures you can see what I meant by overexposed. The order is LL-EEP-RC, Firestorm Release, Black Dragon by using Regiontime..

The Time when i made that Pictures was about 10 Minutes to 8am CEST ..

Edited August 10, 2019 by Miller Thor