If Linden Labs had created Second Life 2.0...

[Wulfie Reanimator]

2 hours ago, Richardus Raymaker said:

More done on the client side instead server

Out of curiosity, what are some of the things that are done server-side that you think should be done client-side?

[Kurshie Muromachi]

I would say everything that was in the JIRA or mentioned in TPV meetings that was deemed won't do or not within scope would be fit for 2.0. ?

[Kurshie Muromachi]

8 minutes ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

Out of curiosity, what are some of the things that are done server-side that you think should be done client-side?

Just an example, but you could create a client-side mesh creation tool and then publish the result to the server to save on excessive pushes of mesh editing updates.

[bigmoe Whitfield]

8 hours ago, Rhonda Huntress said:

• CPU bans for repeat IP thieves

 

That's very easy to get around, changing a cpu serial number or blanking it out is simple,  I can do it in my bios and I'm running the bios it came with.

[Talligurl]

10 hours ago, Quinn Lysette said:

 a great feature is nobody can take lindens out  so that will put a stop to all those girls workin as hookers in sl 

Sorry but as long as there are fabulous clothes and shoes for sale, and poor girls who cannot justify dipping into the family budget to but Lindens, you are going to have this.

[Rhonda Huntress]

1 hour ago, bigmoe Whitfield said:

That's very easy to get around, changing a cpu serial number or blanking it out is simple,  I can do it in my bios and I'm running the bios it came with.

Agree, but it would be a first step in a much more robust set of tools to find and track thieves.

[chaosninja7]

4 hours ago, Richardus Raymaker said:

• First person mode
• Better camera angle
• RL scale
• 90% Cheaper
• VR support
• Bigger sims , let's say 2048x2048
• More done on the client side instead server

 

I believe their already is a First Person mode, its called Mouselook. Better Camera Angle can be achieved with Camera Controls.

Everything else you listed, yes please!

[Wulfie Reanimator]

1 hour ago, Kurshie Muromachi said:

Just an example, but you could create a client-side mesh creation tool and then publish the result to the server to save on excessive pushes of mesh editing updates.

Major problem with that: Any viewer will have to license it, unless it's created by LL which is probably work they're not interested in, OR it'll have to be open-source which means anyone can modify it to get past limits or otherwise tamper with the process.

Besides, can you prove "excessive?" I'm sure if LL thought that, we'd see change.

[Phil Deakins]

11 hours ago, Quinn Lysette said:

a great feature is nobody can take lindens out  so that will put a stop to ...

... SL businesses that spend a lot of time creating decent stuff.

Edited September 24, 2018 by Phil Deakins

[Kurshie Muromachi]

23 minutes ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

Major problem with that: Any viewer will have to license it, unless it's created by LL which is probably work they're not interested in, OR it'll have to be open-source which means anyone can modify it to get past limits or otherwise tamper with the process.

I meant it as in LL creating the mesh tools. Aren't the prim tools already open source since the viewer is open source? Besides, people will find ways to tamper with lots of software.

24 minutes ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

Besides, can you prove "excessive?" I'm sure if LL thought that, we'd see change.

I'm just making an example in the case if it were an excessive amount of data to be tossed around. Think of it as bottlenecks and looking for alternative ways, such as having it client-side if need be. And there's nothing for LL to think about or see changes about since they haven't implemented mesh creation tools (similar to that of 3D apps) within SL, yet.

[LittleMe Jewell]

6 hours ago, Richardus Raymaker said:

More done on the client side instead server

, resulting in more threads in the Forums complaining about why SL doesn't run well on their super low end computers.

[Wulfie Reanimator]

46 minutes ago, Kurshie Muromachi said:

I meant it as in LL creating the mesh tools. Aren't the prim tools already open source since the viewer is open source? Besides, people will find ways to tamper with lots of software.

I'm just making an example in the case if it were an excessive amount of data to be tossed around. Think of it as bottlenecks and looking for alternative ways, such as having it client-side if need be. And there's nothing for LL to think about or see changes about since they haven't implemented mesh creation tools (similar to that of 3D apps) within SL, yet.

Ah, sorry, I was thinking you were talking about the mesh import process.

In that case, I don't understand why you even brought mesh tools up, because even if mesh tools were built in, there would be absolutely no sense in making them server-side beyond the import process that already exists.

What I was asking is something that already exists and is server-side, but shouldn't be.

Also, no, the prim mesh is generated by the server.

Edited September 24, 2018 by Wulfie Reanimator

[Kurshie Muromachi]

18 minutes ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

What I was asking is something that already exists and is server-side, but shouldn't be.

It's a SL 2.0 thread. I didn't see any harm with considering something that would actually be an enhancement of the prim tools. Just for the record, when I refer to pushing mesh changes to other users, I consider that server-side. Sorry I didn't meet your question specifically.

[Wulfie Reanimator]

1 hour ago, Kurshie Muromachi said:

It's a SL 2.0 thread. I didn't see any harm with considering something that would actually be an enhancement of the prim tools. Just for the record, when I refer to pushing mesh changes to other users, I consider that server-side. Sorry I didn't meet your question specifically.

Your suggestion is fine, but the problem is that you gave it in response to my specific question to someone else and what they said. We're basically talking past each other. 

Edited September 24, 2018 by Wulfie Reanimator

[Klytyna]

14 hours ago, PhantomPixel said:

What new features would you love to see in SL 2.0

Hmmmm....

How about...

1. Actually attempting to find out who's using the system, what they use it for, and why, before assuming that everyone wants a "High Brow" pseudo-intellectual edutional system dedicated to looking at "Experimental Conceptual Art Installations" via over-priced over-hyped Vomit-Cam setups...

2. An automated system to instantly dismiss any employee who attempts to implement new "hella Kewl" features based on the opinions of 2 or 3 loud participants at under-attended semi-secret snob clique meetings that happen at a time of day when over half the user base are asleep, in a place 95% of the user base cannot go to...

3. NO "Madlands Special Snowflake Status" subsidies. Mainland areas to be Dept of Public Works shared spaces ONLY, like the maritime areas, and nature parks, etc. All residential/Commercial areas to be run on a "Private Estate" basis, with an option (probably at a slightly higher cost) to be located adjacent to Public Mainland areas, or grouped with sims that are, possibly, so theres no confusing-to-noobs differences in land use costs and parcel rights based simply on a sim being "Estate" rather than "Madlands".

4. HIRE somebody who knows what they are doing to design the "default system avatar mk 2" with a clear and accurate design brief, preferably somebody who's tried SL-1 enough to understand where LL went wrong on all previous attempts...

*shrugs*

 

[Bree Giffen]

Make a feature rich and robust set of building tools so that everything can be built in-world.  Animations, textures, prims, avatars, sounds and even scripting all done inside the SL client. Yes, totally dreaming here.

[PhantomPixel]

As I'm the OP I thought I should probably list the features I would love to see...

--Scripting (Because scripters never get enough lab love in my opinion)--

1. A revamped LSL scripting language. Perhaps designed to be similar to languages with more simplified syntax such as Swift or Python with class objects, switches, new functions to allow rotation of the avatar etc etc etc

2. A revamped script editor in world with enhanced debug options such as stepping through your code.

3. Custom libraries to be added so scripters can store their own custom functions and call them via something like : import funcAESToString() and then later on in the script be able to call that function.

4. Linden libraries that can let you import pre made setups for items such as vehicles. E.g : import vehicleLLCar, that you can then modify to suit your own end.

4. Native Bitbucket / GitHub  support.

5. Redesigned particle system to be brought more in line with the kind of particles and effects you can create in Unity and other similar softwares.

6. All scripting still kept in world...

 

--Building--

1. I would like to see a variation of prims carried over but more enhanced than what we have at the minute. Perhaps with basic mesh modification options such as being able to move and stretch points and edges. With new shape types added such as cogs, hexagons, flat planes (basically a single flat poly with one face). Also the max sizes increased to 128x128 or 256x256.

2. A process added that is similar to Prim 2 Mesh. If you create something and link it you can convert it to a DAE object which gives it a much lower land impact cost.

3. Trees, plants, grass creation tools by default.

4. All building still kept in world.....

 

--Land--

1. Increased region sizes. I would be happy with double what we have now so 512x512.

2. New type of terrain, maybe voxel...maybe other...that allows for greater modification of the terrain in your region. Perhaps the terrain even divided up into multiple texture squares so you can apply more than 4 textures to create something truly unique.

3. Ability to set on a regional control panel the minimum age of avatars that are allowed in the region such as 1 day,  30 days, 60 days etc.

4. A realistic rain and weather system including clouds....I miss clouds in second life....it was fun to build inside of them.

5. I would say cheaper but to be fair I understand that the lab has to make money somehow, so, more value for the same money (see above).

 

--Mesh--

1. Some kind of automated rigging program on import that auto rigs the object with a default set of weights that you can modify for each bone with sliders. Similar to how shapes in SL work.

2. Complexity cap. Set high enough so people can still bring in models that are fairly detailed but not so high that we end up with a plant pot that has 600 land impact (Yes iv seen some..).

 

--Other Stuff--

1. Create folders inside of objects to help organise large projects that require lots of animations, scripts, notecards, sounds etc etc.

2. Longer sound clips, maybe 60 seconds?.

3. An idea for Sansar ported to SL 2.0 which is creating one parent account and then being able to create sub accounts aka your avatars from that parent account that all share the same inventory.

4. Support for VR for those that want to use it.

5. Reliable controller support.

6. Some kind of automated viewer tutorial for new players that points them around the basic use and operation of the viewer.

 

That will do for now xD

 

[bigmoe Whitfield]

10 hours ago, Rhonda Huntress said:

Agree, but it would be a first step in a much more robust set of tools to find and track thieves.

Yeah, again it's easy to get around and in todays world it's not very trivial to just google how to do it.   and tracking...,  vpn, some hardware changes, serial number changes and mac address changes,  and they are back in business, they could have multiple accounts setup using these methods.    LL does not have that kind of time on their hands.

[Sassy Kenin]

1. Buy VRChat 

2. Add a Marketplace to it

3. Add Linden Dollars to it

4. Tell everyone it's a new world "in the Spirit of Secondlife 2.0" with it being the new "Wordpress of VR Goggles"

 

 

[Callum Meriman]

5 hours ago, PhantomPixel said:

3. Ability to set on a regional control panel the minimum age of avatars that are allowed in the region such as 1 day,  30 days, 60 days etc.

It would be far more noob friendly. Age orbs are a shock to that 1 day old avatar who finds themselves "banned", gets upset at the exclusion, and leaves SL forever.

https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-216168

 

[PhantomPixel]

24 minutes ago, Callum Meriman said:

It would be far more noob friendly. Age orbs are a shock to that 1 day old avatar who finds themselves "banned", gets upset at the exclusion, and leaves SL forever.

https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-216168

 

You know whats hilarious. I suggested that exact same thing in a Jira probably around 2 years ago and was told "Its not within the scope of....*insert reason here*". Im happy someone actually finally got that accepted, well done!.

Edited September 25, 2018 by PhantomPixel

[Love Zhaoying]

18 hours ago, Phil Deakins said:

proud

adjective: proud; comparative adjective: prouder; superlative adjective: proudest

1. 1.

   feeling deep pleasure or satisfaction as a result of one's own achievements, qualities, or possessions or those of someone with whom one is closely associated.

    

Technically, Pamela is possibly correct, but only technically, and only possibly, imo. For instance, I had no control over when I was born. There came a time when I always knocked 10 years off my true age when asked (socially), and nobody ever questioned it, or even raised an eyebrow. But when I reached a certain age, I found that I was unexpectedly proud of it, and I haven't knocked 10 years off ever since. Technically, 'proud' is the wrong word, but it's not uncommon to use it for things over which we have no control.

 

In SL 2.0, the word 'proud' will mean whatever the user of it wants it to mean.

 

Do you have a dog in this fight, or are you just arguing for the sake of arguing? 

[Coffee Pancake]

23 hours ago, PhantomPixel said:

Time for a random fun....what if thread!

Okay so, lets suppose that LL had decided to develop SL 2.0 as opposed to Sansar.

Um .. Sansar was literally designed from scratch with the lessons learn't from SL. It's basically SL 2.0 in all but name.

5 hours ago, PhantomPixel said:

As I'm the OP I thought I should probably list the features I would love to see...

--Scripting (Because scripters never get enough lab love in my opinion)--

1. A revamped LSL scripting language. Perhaps designed to be similar to languages with more simplified syntax such as Swift or Python with class objects, switches, new functions to allow rotation of the avatar etc etc etc

Sansar uses C# .. so check on all of those.

https://help.sansar.com/hc/en-us/articles/360000170286-Introduction-to-scripting-in-Sansar

5 hours ago, PhantomPixel said:

2. A revamped script editor in world with enhanced debug options such as stepping through your code.

Why put a script editor in the client when the client on your desktop is always going to be better. 

5 hours ago, PhantomPixel said:

3. Custom libraries to be added so scripters can store their own custom functions and call them via something like : import funcAESToString() and then later on in the script be able to call that function.

See #1

5 hours ago, PhantomPixel said:

4. Linden libraries that can let you import pre made setups for items such as vehicles. E.g : import vehicleLLCar, that you can then modify to suit your own end.

See #1

5 hours ago, PhantomPixel said:

4. Native Bitbucket / GitHub  support.

See #2 ... A dedicated source control client will always be better, personally I like GitKtacken.

5 hours ago, PhantomPixel said:

5. Redesigned particle system to be brought more in line with the kind of particles and effects you can create in Unity and other similar softwares.

Sansar has this on the roadmap.

5 hours ago, PhantomPixel said:

6. All scripting still kept in world...

Stupid idea. If LL spent the time to make an world class industry standard C# development environment, they wouldn't need to be messing about with all this virtual world BS. Right tool for the right job and all that.

 

5 hours ago, PhantomPixel said:

1. I would like to see a variation of prims carried over but more enhanced than what we have at the minute. Perhaps with basic mesh modification options such as being able to move and stretch points and edges. With new shape types added such as cogs, hexagons, flat planes (basically a single flat poly with one face). Also the max sizes increased to 128x128 or 256x256.

2. A process added that is similar to Prim 2 Mesh. If you create something and link it you can convert it to a DAE object which gives it a much lower land impact cost.

3. Trees, plants, grass creation tools by default.

4. All building still kept in world.....

Again, right tool for the right job. If you want the power of Blender or Maya .. then you should be using Blender or Maya. Expecting LL to run off and develop there own internal versions of those applications would again negate the need for a virtual world product line.

Do you want to load up Maya every time you log in? Even if you're not a builder, because if you put it in the client, that is what you are expecting people to do.

What about texture editing, should SL2.0 fold in the entire GIMP project too, how about audio ... lets add in Audacity and LMSS.

SL2.0 would end up so bloated all it really missing is a kernel.

 

5 hours ago, PhantomPixel said:

1. Increased region sizes. I would be happy with double what we have now so 512x512.

SL1.0 land is a set size because that size is hard coded in all over the place, much like fixed account names. The only reason we don't have that now is LL would have to go over all systems and rejig everything to not assume the current size. It's not impossible, it's just a nightmarish pain in the butt.

5 hours ago, PhantomPixel said:

2. New type of terrain, maybe voxel...maybe other...that allows for greater modification of the terrain in your region. Perhaps the terrain even divided up into multiple texture squares so you can apply more than 4 textures to create something truly unique.

SL2.0 is an OS at this point, why shouldn't it run minecraft.

5 hours ago, PhantomPixel said:

3. Ability to set on a regional control panel the minimum age of avatars that are allowed in the region such as 1 day,  30 days, 60 days etc.

Yes, because new users are scum. Lets not make SL 2.0 accessible in an era where free entry to online services is expected.

5 hours ago, PhantomPixel said:

4. A realistic rain and weather system including clouds....I miss clouds in second life....it was fun to build inside of them.

The tools you have in SL 1.0 do not make it impossible for you to create this, even more so with Animesh.

5 hours ago, PhantomPixel said:

5. I would say cheaper but to be fair I understand that the lab has to make money somehow, so, more value for the same money (see above).

The SL 2.0 OS does everything and cost nothing. Well, as we're in magical fairy-tale land, I want a pony and a plastic rocket.

 

5 hours ago, PhantomPixel said:

1. Some kind of automated rigging program on import that auto rigs the object with a default set of weights that you can modify for each bone with sliders. Similar to how shapes in SL work.

That's not how rigging works, might as well add mind reading to the feature set

5 hours ago, PhantomPixel said:

1. Create folders inside of objects to help organise large projects that require lots of animations, scripts, notecards, sounds etc etc.

2. Longer sound clips, maybe 60 seconds?.

3. An idea for Sansar ported to SL 2.0 which is creating one parent account and then being able to create sub accounts aka your avatars from that parent account that all share the same inventory.

4. Support for VR for those that want to use it.

5. Reliable controller support.

6. Some kind of automated viewer tutorial for new players that points them around the basic use and operation of the viewer.

 

That will do for now

 

[Callum Meriman]

7 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said:

GitKtacken

Meow!~ I read that as GitKitten! (it really looked like katerchen)

gitkitten nom filename.cpp
1 file(s) nommed {+++++--+++++}

 

Edited September 25, 2018 by Callum Meriman

[Coffee Pancake]

Gitkitten links to rm -R

"Wait .. those files are gone, are they really gone?!!!"

"yup"