Which Do You Prefer COPY or TRANSFER?

[FairreLilette]

Regarding non full perm items, which do you prefer...COPY or TRANSFER?

1)  Furnishings. 

COPY or TRANSFER?  

With copy you can copy as many chairs as you want for example.  But, with transfer, you could have your own little yard sale when you want to re-decorate or sell your items.

2)  Clothing.

COPY or TRANSFER?

With copy, you can make little outfits with the outfit feature.  With transfer, you can have a yard sale when you are tired of your old clothes.

So which do you prefer?  

 

 

Edited September 17, 2018 by FairreLilette

[Theresa Tennyson]

50 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

TA: Incidentally, you don't put animations in upside down. You put them in and then position them with 2 avatars. It's not possible to position them upside down and think you've got them the right way up. My best guess now is that either you made a mess of adjusting the position yourself, or you didn't understand the animation. Either way, what you said happened, never happened.

Given that it was a lesbian animation, one of us obviously didn't understand it...

Upon looking back, my best guess is that you'd put the rotations for "Avatar A" where the rotations for "Avatar B" went and vice versa. In either way, it wasn't usable as is and it took a rare amount of time for me to fix it.

Edited September 19, 2018 by Theresa Tennyson

[Tari Landar]

9 hours ago, Fionalein said:

And honestly prefurnished rentals? I guess most folks do not want those, I wouldn't.

A HUGE amount of rentals available today, falling in all price points, and all parcel sizes, come furnished. This has been the case for well over a decade at this point, and I don't see it decreasing at any point in time...it's more likely to increase, as it always has(slightly, some years, but an increase is an increase)

A HUGE amount of those rentals, are rented. 

There is most definitely, as there always has been, a market for furnished rentals-and, again, in ALL price points

When I rent land-which I do from time to time, and I don't rent an empty parcel, I opt for something furnished. I would say that my rentals have been an equal balance of furnished and non furnished. I'm only one person, but, I know for a fact I'm not alone, lol. One can easily go into any number of rental places to find parcels, skyboxes, houses, etc... that come furnished, and see how many of them are rented. The number is likely a lot higher than people here on the forums might think  

[Phil Deakins]

11 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Given that it was a lesbian animation and was rotated 180 degrees, one of us obviously didn't understand it...

Lol. Well I certainly understood it, because I created it. And, yes, I positioned lesbian anims with 2 avatars as well.

Edited September 19, 2018 by Phil Deakins

[KanryDrago]

4 minutes ago, Tari Landar said:

A HUGE amount of rentals available today, falling in all price points, and all parcel sizes, come furnished. This has been the case for well over a decade at this point, and I don't see it decreasing at any point in time...it's more likely to increase, as it always has(slightly, some years, but an increase is an increase)

A HUGE amount of those rentals, are rented. 

There is most definitely, as there always has been, a market for furnished rentals-and, again, in ALL price points

When I rent land-which I do from time to time, and I don't rent an empty parcel, I opt for something furnished. I would say that my rentals have been an equal balance of furnished and non furnished. I'm only one person, but, I know for a fact I'm not alone, lol. One can easily go into any number of rental places to find parcels, skyboxes, houses, etc... that come furnished, and see how many of them are rented. The number is likely a lot higher than people here on the forums might think  

Anecdote but I rent and wouldnt ever consider renting where there is a pre rezzed house let alone furnishings. When I first joined SL I looked at quite a few including many of the big names and with I think one exception they were absolutely awful. Poorly made houses with cheap crappy furniture

[Theresa Tennyson]

14 minutes ago, Tari Landar said:

A HUGE amount of rentals available today, falling in all price points, and all parcel sizes, come furnished. This has been the case for well over a decade at this point, and I don't see it decreasing at any point in time...it's more likely to increase, as it always has(slightly, some years, but an increase is an increase)

A HUGE amount of those rentals, are rented. 

There is most definitely, as there always has been, a market for furnished rentals-and, again, in ALL price points

When I rent land-which I do from time to time, and I don't rent an empty parcel, I opt for something furnished. I would say that my rentals have been an equal balance of furnished and non furnished. I'm only one person, but, I know for a fact I'm not alone, lol. One can easily go into any number of rental places to find parcels, skyboxes, houses, etc... that come furnished, and see how many of them are rented. The number is likely a lot higher than people here on the forums might think  

I imagine a lot of those use a "multi-scene rezzer" type system, though, which means that no-copy furniture is useless to the developers regardless of how many instances they have.

[Tari Landar]

1 minute ago, KanryDrago said:

Anecdote but I rent and wouldnt ever consider renting where there is a pre rezzed house let alone furnishings. When I first joined SL I looked at quite a few including many of the big names and with I think one exception they were absolutely awful. Poorly made houses with cheap crappy furniture

I can fully understand your position, I've seen some horrid, horrid builds with really crappy furniture, lol. Sometimes, I just want an empty space to do whatever it is I want to do-which would be why my rental experience, when I've rented runs about equal between furnished and non-furnished. Though, I've been sl-homeless since early summer and I imagine it'll stay that way for a good long while, lol. 

I have a couple rental places I prefer, because I like their pricing schemes, when I'm inclined to rent a place that is. Sometimes, having that pre-built, pre-setup location is nice when I have other objectives for having the parcel in the first place. Add to this the fact that some of those rental places(the ones I've used, I have no idea how many, but I doubt it's the majority) don't count those furnishings against the renter's prim count, so I can have their nice setup(the ones I rent from, of course, nice setups in those cases, lol) and still have space for my own stuff, my own builds, my own whatevers. It works out nicely-again, when I'm inclined to rent a place like that. 

But it still doesn't change the very real fact that many rentals do, in fact, offer furnished parcels, skyboxes, houses, etc... and it's super easy to find them real quick, inworld, here on the forums in the land forum, even on MP(though, surprisingly, the number of them on MP is way, way lower, I think that's mostly because people advertise empty parcels there, not furnished ones). It would take seconds, at best, to find them all. It would take a few minutes, at best, to find that a huge number of them are rented, and stay rented a significant amount of time. That's rental businesses of all size too, not just big name ones, though big name ones is hugely subjective, they're more likely to have ALL rentals occupied at any given time than a lot of smaller operations, I suppose that's neither here nor there, lol.  

While it probably shouldn't need to be stated, I will anyway....when I say furnished, I do mean actual furnishings, not just landscaping. Plenty of parcels come with landscaping, some of it "permanent", some of it simply for "show" which the renter then returns. But even just landscaping would fall under the "lots and lots of people prefer copy" camp..so I guess it's relevant here too, lol. 

[Tari Landar]

6 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

I imagine a lot of those use a "multi-scene rezzer" type system, though, which means that no-copy furniture is useless to the developers regardless of how many instances they have.

Oh yes, definitely, and I have no doubt that's the type of system they use.

I know for a fact two of my favorite rental places use those kinds of systems-well something like it, because each of those rental places offers a multitude of scenes and/or "houses"(I quote that because not all of them are houses, lol) which the renter can pick from a menu. There are plenty of other rental places that do the same, even if it's just a system for furniture that can be changed. 

 I know it's not everyone's cup of tea, and there are folks that would never rent from such a place. But I also know it's clearly the cup of tea plenty of others are looking for, because they're quire frequently rented, and often times sit at full capacity (occupancy wise, not "people on sim at this moment" wise) for a while

[Phil Deakins]

39 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Upon looking back, my best guess is that you'd put the rotations for "Avatar A" where the rotations for "Avatar B" went and vice versa. In either way, it wasn't usable as is and it took a rare amount of time for me to fix it.

You added that part after I'd posted my reply to the orginal.

That doesn't make sense to me. Two female avatars are more-or-less the same size, so, as far as I can see, it shouldn't make any difference which is which, unless perhaps one of the users is always sort of dominant, and the other always isn't. If that's anything to do with it, and if the aminations would suit A always being A, and B always being B, then I can certainly understand one or more of the animations having A and B switched, because that possibility never entered my head when I made and positioned them.

What I do know never happened is anyone contacting me with or without a fault, and me telling them to "fix it yourself". If there wasn't an actual fault, I could easily have said that the positions are adjustable and you can adjust them yourself, in which case, I would referred you to the 'Instructions' notecard. Depending on what was happening at the time, I might well have offered to adjust them for you, but I wouldn't have expected the offer to be accepted.

ETA: It's still checkable, because I still have the poseball-using furniture. You said that I continued to sell the item with the 'fault', so it should still be the same because I wouldn't have recognised it as a fault. I'd be interested to find out which animation it was, and I'd be happy for you to be at my place when you tell me and I rez the item, so that I can't change it without you knowing.

Edited September 19, 2018 by Phil Deakins

[Theresa Tennyson]

2 hours ago, Phil Deakins said:

ETA: It's still checkable, because I still have the poseball-using furniture. You said that I continued to sell the item with the 'fault', so it should still be the same because I wouldn't have recognised it as a fault. I'd be interested to find out which animation it was, and I'd be happy for you to be at my place when you tell me and I rez the item, so that I can't change it without you knowing.

Item: 1 prim "Chameleon" Round Sex Rug by "Prim Savers"

Pose: "Girl-Girl" --> "69 (g/g)"

As I poke around in it the problem could be related to the fact that there's no entry in the .POSITIONS notecard for that pose at all. Not that I would even have been able to describe that when I bought it and had problems with it in my first six months of being in SL.

[Sara Sullivan]

wont even consider no copy items, I've lost entirely too many things that were no copy. I don't see anything that isn't copy either.  It doesn't matter how good the quality is, search long enough and you can find copy items of the same quality in most cases.

[iamyourneighbour]

As a merchant I always make copy items. It is easier on the customer if they lose something they can simply replace it. There will be factors outside of their control causing items to be lost (IE landlord gets foreclosed and land scrapped with no notice) 

Plus when someone use your item, they are a walking advertisement for you. So the more copy they can make the better, makes me happy when I walk around exploring and find sims using my items ?

Also that factor is too easy to out match, if someone makes a similar item all they need to do to beat you is ticking a box, which is what I do. I make better quality version of something existing, list it for cheaper and lower prims. One unhappy merchant many happy customers !

Edited September 20, 2018 by iamyourneighbour

[Parhelion Palou]

12 hours ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

"Something for nothing" - like being paid multiple times for doing the same amount of work?

Cool! I'm going to get after Microsoft for making me buy 3 copies of Windows 10 for my 3 computers. I should be able to buy one and use it on as many computers as I wish. Microsoft certainly do any extra work for my 2nd & 3rd copy.

[Marianne Little]

13 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

The trick is to look for dramatic imbalance between Download and Server weights (because Physics is usually negligible unless the Mesh creator is very lazy), and then link complementary imbalances.

This can result in a dramatic reduction in total LI, and it's best to look for those big wins because linking causes fractional weights to sum, losing the benefit of rounding. (e.g., a 1.4 weight linked to a 1.4 totals 2.8 - so 3 LI linked instead of 2 unlinked.)

Well, I am sure it is possible to check this before I buy or try to link items. I have no knowledge of how to do it, and in my personal opinion, a reduction in 1 LI is not worth spending the time doing this research over. When I link something, I can not know if it's 0,9 LI and I must link 11 identical ones to get 1 LI saved. If I link a 1,3 LI item to this group, then I have 12 separate objects and it's 13 LI. The LI has increased with one. I see this more than once and it is a waste of time.

I know of the mathematics and some advertise it - their product is 0,5 Li and they advertise "Link 2 and it is still 1 LI". To get some numbers that matter, I will have to link a lot of landscaping items - just an example of products without poses - and I see no drastic effects. Since I change often, it is harder to edit a big set of linked items, must select both the tree trunk and the foliage and move it, or unlink several parts and hope I don't unlink the other trees foliage.

For me, a reduction in less that 10 LI is not worth the effort, for a room or a garden. Candles often have a flame, the candle itself and the holder, to take off one candle from a group is selecting and unlinking three small parts, or either delete all the candles and rez new ones. And if the candles is linked to the table, the flowers and the mat... well. It is just me, I suppose if I had a very low LI number free to decorate, I would invest the time.

 

Edited September 20, 2018 by Marianne Little

[vvvRavenvvv]

19 hours ago, Phil Deakins said:

But you wouldn't buy an RL sofa, or chair, or table, etc. and expect to be able to place one of them in every room.

I doesn't matter anyway. There's no disagreement because everyone can choose to sell with whatever perms they want, and everyone can choose to buy with whatever perms they want. Nobody can argue against that - well almost nobody lol.

you cant do this you are killing your self and our brains 
real world furniture require staff and machines and energy and raw material for every piece mean while SL Furniture does not , you keep on making an equivocation  fallacy , stop it 

Edited September 20, 2018 by vvvRavenvvv

[vvvRavenvvv]

2 hours ago, Parhelion Palou said:

Cool! I'm going to get after Microsoft for making me buy 3 copies of Windows 10 for my 3 computers. I should be able to buy one and use it on as many computers as I wish. Microsoft certainly do any extra work for my 2nd & 3rd copy.

the chances of you losing your OS are waaayyyyyy less then losing furniture in SL and the amount of staff and programs involved are a lot less not to mention the work needed and support after . so no it does not work you  in support of NO COPY nonsense are willing to commit all sorts of fallacies to push this ha ?shows what kinda of people we are dealing with 

Edited September 20, 2018 by vvvRavenvvv

[vvvRavenvvv]

15 hours ago, Phil Deakins said:

It was the person I replied to who brought RL up, by giving RL examples. Hence my RL reply.

yes but you twisted THE REAL WORLD to fit your view and then continued to point your the issue with it , its a straw man fallacy 
the money used to buy anything in SL can be sold for real money thus making it Real 
not to mention SL is with in the Real world
there for we apply real world logic on them BOTH !
and when you pay for some thing you want to have it , not turn and lose it while it should be safe from sim crashes , re-rolls , updates and REZZ fails and etc
you exprince losing some thing in the Real world behind the dam screen even if the event happens in SL check it under TOS- residence's experience which you are not allowed by any means to ruin for other people by your choices
 and freedom of one person ends when it starts overlapping some one else's
my freedom to buy some thing and use it while the functions in place guaranties my rights and safety of my items  without the risk of a Tick you manged to put in play by using the very systems that were meant to protect me and my experience 
its like you want BUGS to happen so you can sell more .... what the hell
i am tired of correcting your twisted view of the world that is purposely bent to fit your picture as away of self justification 

Edited September 20, 2018 by vvvRavenvvv

[Phil Deakins]

10 hours ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Item: 1 prim "Chameleon" Round Sex Rug by "Prim Savers"

Pose: "Girl-Girl" --> "69 (g/g)"

As I poke around in it the problem could be related to the fact that there's no entry in the .POSITIONS notecard for that pose at all. Not that I would even have been able to describe that when I bought it and had problems with it in my first six months of being in SL.

Now that's really odd. My copy has the same fault, and I never knew. I don't know exactly what was said between us at the time but I do know that I would never have told a customer to "Fix it yourself". The overall meaning would have been that you can adjust it, but not the bluntness of 'fix it yourself'. That was just you having a go for some reason that's unknown to me. I can imagine that the conversation led me to think that it was merely an adjustment to fit both avatars, which is normal, and tell you to read the notecard to see how to adjust it. That's usually necessary anyway, due to avatars being of varying heights. I would definitely not have known there was a fault and left it on sale without dealing with it. That never happened.

I'm sorry that there was a fault, but I can say with absolute certainty that, whatever was said between us, I did not come to understand that there was an actual fault, or I would have dealt with it by fixing the store copy and swapping yours. The fact that my copy still has the fault is proof enough for me.

It's been a very long time since I used positioning balls in my stuff, and things have moved on a lot. So it's highly unlikely that you'd want to exchange yours for the no-balls version (which doesn't contain that fault), but you can have an exchange if you want it. If you're likely to use it again, or pass it on, it would be best to exchange, because you didn't edit the .POSITIONS notecard when you adjusted the positions, and every time it's Reset, the original wrong position will be back.

Edited September 20, 2018 by Phil Deakins

[vvvRavenvvv]

On 9/18/2018 at 4:25 PM, Phil Deakins said:

Correct. There is no right and wrong in this.

false false false and false its a practice and a view based on facts when you deform the facts to alter the point of view it is wrong 
when you try to dodge fact checking that makes you worng
AND YOU USE A FUNCTION TO FORCE PEOPLE TO PAY MORE WHEN IT WAS MADE TO PROTECT YOU AND THEM you are indeed WRONG
we can do this all day pal 

[vvvRavenvvv]

On 9/18/2018 at 4:26 PM, Phil Deakins said:

It's my opinion that the main reason - you're just being argumentative for no good reason.

this is called the no true Scotsmen fallacy 

i really urge you to see help...

[Love Zhaoying]

On 9/18/2018 at 10:26 AM, Phil Deakins said:

It's my opinion that the main reason why people don't want to buy no-copy furniture is greed. You know that's what I said, and you're just being argumentative for no good reason.

Ok, I will explain since you missed my point:

1. There is no right and wrong.

2. If there is no right and wrong, there can be no negative judgement against one side or the other.

3. If there can be no negative judgement against one side or the other, then it makes absolutely no sense to judge either side as “greedy”.

It’s quite simple: I was trying to call you out for judging even though you said there is no right and wrong. But you missed it. Because you don’t really care about someone else’s argument. Just yours.

[Solar Legion]

There's an Ignore function, Raven.

Use. It.

[vvvRavenvvv]

2 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Because you don’t really care about someone else’s argument. Just yours.

pretty much , when he hits a wall he alters reality
when he hears a view point he ignores it 
when he hears a fact he shifts argument 

the making of a really damaged mind  

[vvvRavenvvv]

Just now, Solar Legion said:

There's an Ignore function, Raven.

Use. It.

i'd use it but the harder he fails the further the point gets across since he keeps on running every single argument that could possibly be 

[Solar Legion]

While baiting you into slipping up to the point where eventually you could end up on the wrong end of a post report.

[Phil Deakins]

10 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Because you don’t really care about someone else’s argument. Just yours.

Correction: I do care about other people's arguments. What I don't care about is other people's opinions when they differ with mine. We all believe that our opinions are correct - you, me, and everyone else. So we believe that alternative opinions are wrong. Often all opinions are correct for the people holding them.

However, if an argument put forward that persuades me that my opinion is wrong, as sometimes happens, then I change my opinion. So I do care about someone else's argument. What I don't do is change my opinion merely because someone put an opposing argument forward. To change my opinion, the argument has to show me that I'm wrong.

In other words, I'm just the same as you and everyone else. And, of course, you and everyone else are just the same as me

Edited September 20, 2018 by Phil Deakins