Which Do You Prefer COPY or TRANSFER?

[FairreLilette]

Regarding non full perm items, which do you prefer...COPY or TRANSFER?

1)  Furnishings. 

COPY or TRANSFER?  

With copy you can copy as many chairs as you want for example.  But, with transfer, you could have your own little yard sale when you want to re-decorate or sell your items.

2)  Clothing.

COPY or TRANSFER?

With copy, you can make little outfits with the outfit feature.  With transfer, you can have a yard sale when you are tired of your old clothes.

So which do you prefer?  

 

 

Edited September 17, 2018 by FairreLilette

[Qie Niangao]

3 minutes ago, Fionalein said:

• I like linking furniture to my yacht... no copy would make the whole yacht no copy and it would make each sim crossing a gamble...

I think it's worse than that, isn't it? I was thinking about this yesterday, in fact: I don't think you're allowed to link no-copy with no-transfer. And for me that poses a problem because I'm forever linking stuff together in order to shrink Land Impact: some things are Download-heavy while others are Server-heavy, and by linking them together they may "absorb" each other's specific weights and total much less than the sum of their individual LI's.

[Marianne Little]

18 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

I think it's worse than that, isn't it? I was thinking about this yesterday, in fact: I don't think you're allowed to link no-copy with no-transfer. And for me that poses a problem because I'm forever linking stuff together in order to shrink Land Impact: some things are Download-heavy while others are Server-heavy, and by linking them together they may "absorb" each other's specific weights and total much less than the sum of their individual LI's.

It can't be linked, that is true. On the other side, I find that linking to save LI is exaggerated. I can link 25 items with a total of 45 LI and the LI drop two points. It isn't worth it, especially if it is animated items involved.

 

[Phil Deakins]

1 hour ago, Hintswen Guardian said:

When I buy a game, I expect to be able to play it on multiple PC's if I want to. When I buy a digital album, I expect to be able to play it on my PC and make a copy on my phone and be able to play it there to.

But you wouldn't buy an RL sofa, or chair, or table, etc. and expect to be able to place one of them in every room.

I doesn't matter anyway. There's no disagreement because everyone can choose to sell with whatever perms they want, and everyone can choose to buy with whatever perms they want. Nobody can argue against that - well almost nobody lol.

Edited September 19, 2018 by Phil Deakins

[Phil Deakins]

4 minutes ago, Marianne Little said:

It can't be linked, that is true. On the other side, I find that linking to save LI is exaggerated. I can link 25 items with a total of 45 LI and the LI drop two points. It isn't worth it, especially if it is animated items involved.

And often the LI can increase due to linking. On the whole items without scripts go down, but linking items with scripts often leaves the LI the same and often increases it.

[Phil Deakins]

3 hours ago, AyelaNewLife said:

Out of interest, if a customer that didn't appear to be in the rental business contacted you saying that SL ate a no-copy piece of furniture that they bought from you, (and assuming they did actually buy it etc etc), would you be willing to send over a single replacement for free? And do you think that is standard practice?

Just to expand on my previous reply to that quote... I think at least half of the replacement requests were because the person had had their stuff returned to them, usually having been removed from a rented place. I always explained about coalesced objects and helped them find the item. From then on, they knew about coalesced objects and could find things themselves if it occured again, which was probably useful to them.

[Coby Foden]

1 hour ago, Phil Deakins said:

But you wouldn't buy an RL sofa, or chair, or table, etc. and expect to be able to place one of them in every room.

But, but... you have earlier said over and over again in some other threads that: "SL is not RL. It's not. They are totally different worlds".
So why you bring up RL in this thread stating what cannot be done there? This discussion is about SL not RL. Right?

Anyway you did what you did with your furniture to maximize your income. I can understand that from the business point of view.
For me no-copy items are bad in many ways. From the buyer's perspective to want copy items have many good reasons.

[Rhonda Huntress]

On 9/17/2018 at 6:28 PM, FairreLilette said:

Regarding non full perm items, which do you prefer...COPY or TRANSFER?

1)  Furnishings. 

COPY or TRANSFER?  

2)  Clothing.

COPY or TRANSFER?

So which do you prefer? 

I prefer copy either way. 

[LittleMe Jewell]

6 minutes ago, Coby Foden said:

But, but... you have earlier said over and over again in some other threads that: "SL is not RL. It's not. They are totally different worlds".
So why you bring up RL in this thread stating what cannot be done there? This discussion is about SL not RL. Right?

I seldom make statements in defense of Phil, but in this case he was responding directly to a point someone else made about what they do and expect with items in RL.  Thus RL analogy in response to RL analogy.

 

[LittleMe Jewell]

From a business perspective, I fully understand Phil's point of view and IMO, there is nothing wrong with him having that point of view.  Many folks, myself included, prefer copy furnishings.  For myself, I usually want copy for one of two reasons:  a) The item is modifiable and I want to have an unmodified version in case I mess it up, b) I actually want to be able to rez multiple copies of said item (a chair, lamp, side table, etc...).  Reason 'b' is where Phil wants people to buy the additional copies and that is a valid business viewpoint.  Personally, if it is something that I want to rez multiple copies and the individual price is reasonable enough and I only wanted a few copies, then I might buy multiple copies - **might**. 

Just because many of us want copy furniture, for various reasons, does not in any way make Phil's point of view "wrong".  As Phil said, opinions are just that - opinions - and thus, by definition, all are valid whether shared by anyone else or not.

Even defending Phil's viewpoint, I still will almost never buy a no-copy furniture or landscaping item unless it is something very unique and I don't plan on modifying it and I really, really want it.  I've never been bitten by the SL glitch of losing a rezzed no-copy item because of sim reset or any other bug, so that reason has just never been a consideration for me.

 

[Qie Niangao]

2 hours ago, Phil Deakins said:

And often the LI can increase due to linking. On the whole items without scripts go down, but linking items with scripts often leaves the LI the same and often increases it.

The trick is to look for dramatic imbalance between Download and Server weights (because Physics is usually negligible unless the Mesh creator is very lazy), and then link complementary imbalances.

This can result in a dramatic reduction in total LI, and it's best to look for those big wins because linking causes fractional weights to sum, losing the benefit of rounding. (e.g., a 1.4 weight linked to a 1.4 totals 2.8 - so 3 LI linked instead of 2 unlinked.)

[Phorumities]

As usual a free an unfettered market decides all things to everyones satisfaction. creators are free to sell their creations with whatever permissions they prefer and consumers can buy products with the permissions they prefer.

Once again, the free market triumphs over all.

[Phil Deakins]

49 minutes ago, Coby Foden said:

But, but... you have earlier said over and over again in some other threads that: "SL is not RL. It's not. They are totally different worlds".
So why you bring up RL in this thread stating what cannot be done there? This discussion is about SL not RL. Right?

It was the person I replied to who brought RL up, by giving RL examples. Hence my RL reply.

[Phil Deakins]

22 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

The trick is to look for dramatic imbalance between Download and Server weights (because Physics is usually negligible unless the Mesh creator is very lazy), and then link complementary imbalances.

This can result in a dramatic reduction in total LI, and it's best to look for those big wins because linking causes fractional weights to sum, losing the benefit of rounding. (e.g., a 1.4 weight linked to a 1.4 totals 2.8 - so 3 LI linked instead of 2 unlinked.)

It's a trick that I'm not familiar with, Qie - mainly because it's not something that I do. I only join my own stuff for LI benefit. But ty for the tip.

[Theresa Tennyson]

9 hours ago, Phil Deakins said:

The other side is, I said that, imo, those who want copyable furniture, with the intention of rezzing multiple copies, are greedy. They want something for nothing. That's my opinion, and that's all there is to it. Some people say that my opinion is wrong, but they are wrong about that - again, imo. I don't see that there's anything to argue about. I knew, and stated, that it would tread on a lot of toes. It did, but that doesn't change anything. I said that I don't exclude myself, and I said why - I am the same. I said that I've been in the landlord boat, and I did exactly the same thing. I'll say now that, if I were buying, I'd do the same. We are all mere humans and most of us want something for nothing if we can get it.

 

"Something for nothing" - like being paid multiple times for doing the same amount of work?

[Phil Deakins]

Nope. Running a large inworld store costs a significant amount of money - ongoing - and plenty of time. That's not nothing.

[Coby Foden]

27 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

It was the person I replied to who brought RL up, by giving RL examples. Hence my RL reply.

Oh yes. I noticed it too late. Sorry.

[Theresa Tennyson]

10 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

Nope. Running a large inworld store costs a significant amount of money - ongoing - and plenty of time. That's not nothing.

How much work does a creator do when a customer copies an object?

[Phil Deakins]

The work is to run the store, which, incidentally, includes customer service, which itself includes dealing with potential customers in the store, among other things. It's not to assist customers in copying objects. And don't forget the ongoing costs, of course.

Is there a point to these questions, Theresa?

Edited September 19, 2018 by Phil Deakins

[Love Zhaoying]

3 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

The work is to run the store, which, incidentally, includes customer service, which itself includes dealing with potential customers in the store, among other things. It's not to assist customers in copying objects. And don't forget the ongoing costs, of course.

What point are you trying to make, Theresa?

Did you help people rez and position couches in their homes, etc.?

[Phil Deakins]

On occasion, yes. I even rescued one customer who was sitting on her sofa outside her skybox.

Any point to that question?

ETA: An anecdote. I once spent about 30 minutes with one customer trying to help her. During it, she said, "You must think I'm stupid". I did, but I didn't tell her that. In the end I gave up because she just couldn't grasp it at all. I couldn't even get her to left-click the object.

Another ETA, and this is also to Theresa. Don't forget that I was selling for profit, and earning as much as I could. It was a business, not a shared experience. So all these little questions are a bit silly, don't you think?

Edited September 19, 2018 by Phil Deakins

[Theresa Tennyson]

8 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

On occasion, yes. I even rescued one customer who was sitting on her sofa outside her skybox.

Any point to that question?

ETA: An anecdote. I once spent about 30 minutes with one customer trying to help her. During it, she said, "You must think I'm stupid". I did, but I didn't tell her that. In the end I gave up because she just couldn't grasp it at all. I couldn't even get her to left-click the object.

Then there was the customer who told you that a pose in a poseball had been put in upside down and you told them to fix it themselves and you kept selling the product with the inverted pose.

[Phil Deakins]

B-llocks! Why are you lying, Theresa? What do you hope to gain? Surely you don't need to resort to lying, when there isn't even anything to argue about. I never sold poseballs, so what you lied about could not have happened.

Edited September 19, 2018 by Phil Deakins

[Theresa Tennyson]

Just now, Phil Deakins said:

B-llocks! Why are you lying, Theresa? What do you hope to gain? I never sold poseballs.

Theresa Tennyson sighs.

What did you use for the poses in your adult furniture? And, if it wasn't obvious, that customer was me.

[Phil Deakins]

Not poseballs with animations in them, that's for sure. But you didn't say furniture. You said poseballs. In the early times I did use a poseball rezzing system in the furniture. That was replaced by my own no-balls system.

If anything remotely like what you said happened to you, then you've put a hell of a slant on it. So slanted that it's an outright lie. The positions of the animations in the furniture I sold that rezzed poseballs (without animations in them), were adjustable by the user. Everyone sells furniture with animations in them that can be adjusted. And you're lying because I never told anyone to "fix it yourself" in the way that you described. And I never continued selling something that was wrong. It's far more likely that you didn't understand what the animation was supposed to be. In other words, what you said never happened.

What are you hoping to gain here? I don't understand that. There's nothing to argue about concerning the way I sold stuff. You have really opened my eyes about you.

ETA: Incidentally, you don't put animations in upside down. You put them in and then position them with 2 avatars. It's not possible to position them upside down and think you've got them the right way up. My best guess now is that either you made a mess of adjusting the position yourself, or you didn't understand the animation. Either way, what you said happened, never happened.

Edited September 19, 2018 by Phil Deakins

[MoiraKathleen]

On ‎9‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 4:28 PM, FairreLilette said:

Regarding non full perm items, which do you prefer...COPY or TRANSFER?

1)  Furnishings. 

COPY or TRANSFER?  

With copy you can copy as many chairs as you want for example.  But, with transfer, you could have your own little yard sale when you want to re-decorate or sell your items.

2)  Clothing.

COPY or TRANSFER?

With copy, you can make little outfits with the outfit feature.  With transfer, you can have a yard sale when you are tired of your old clothes.

So which do you prefer?  

 

I prefer copy and mod for home and garden items.  There are times I might purchase non-gacha items that are not copy, but I do that rarely and it generally is because it's a fairly unique item or design that I decide I really want.  

For clothing and hair if they are mod (which I prefer for hair especially) then I also like them copy, so that I can save a backup copy.  Also for clothes, if there are different color and/or pattern options, I prefer a HUD rather than having to buy a fat-pack with all the options.  (However I understand why a creator might prefer to sell fat-packs rather than selling one copy of the clothing item with a HUD for the multiple pattern/color options). 

Animations I prefer copy.