Which Do You Prefer COPY or TRANSFER?

[FairreLilette]

Regarding non full perm items, which do you prefer...COPY or TRANSFER?

1)  Furnishings. 

COPY or TRANSFER?  

With copy you can copy as many chairs as you want for example.  But, with transfer, you could have your own little yard sale when you want to re-decorate or sell your items.

2)  Clothing.

COPY or TRANSFER?

With copy, you can make little outfits with the outfit feature.  With transfer, you can have a yard sale when you are tired of your old clothes.

So which do you prefer?  

 

 

Edited September 17, 2018 by FairreLilette

[Phil Deakins]

15 minutes ago, Fionalein said:

checking "related items" of course, ... but to be fair they didn't link to the copy version - oh those MP merchants 

It wouldn't make any difference though. No-copy furniture is still sold. That was the point I was making.

Oooh. I made a mistake. You meant the marketplace. I went to the store.

Edited September 19, 2018 by Phil Deakins

[vvvRavenvvv]

6 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

It wouldn't make any difference though. No-copy furniture is still sold. That was the point I was making.

Oooh. I made a mistake. You meant the marketplace. I went to the store.

because people will for a fact buy just about anything if they want it but that does not mean its a good practice especially when  people are not aware of the implications or unaware of the technical limitations of SL and the high risk of losing some thin they payed for fairly .....not to mention it enforces this kinda unfairness as a  '' it works '' which is a fallacy 

Edited September 19, 2018 by vvvRavenvvv

[Fionalein]

9 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

I'm there now (Prim Possible adult store) if you want to come and show me.

Cannot find them inworld either, but at least one item had a hovertext hint that copy was available on MP.

[Cindy Evanier]

32 minutes ago, vvvRavenvvv said:

this  phill fella is getting on my nerve , so many logical fallacies and so many claims and talk based on one way thinking in a world that fits only his viewpoint regardless of facts  

Then walk on by.  Phil has every right to state his personal opinion on a GENERAL DISCUSSION FORUM.   He has every right to sell his products with whatever perms he wishes.  The only reason this thread is going on is because people keep trying to tell him he is wrong.  How can he be wrong?  You might prefer other perms  that's fine.  Just because you don't agree you start name calling.  If you don't want NO COPY don't buy NO COPY.  That doesn't change the fact that a merchant can sell it if they want.  

[Phil Deakins]

Aargh! I left, assuming that you wouldn't come in because of my marketplace mistake.

Anyway, no-copy furniture items are still sold by big sellers, which is what I wanted to check on.

[vvvRavenvvv]

3 minutes ago, Cindy Evanier said:

Then walk on by.  Phil has every right to state his personal opinion on a GENERAL DISCUSSION FORUM.   He has every right to sell his products with whatever perms he wishes.  The only reason this thread is going on is because people keep trying to tell him he is wrong.  How can he be wrong?  You might prefer other perms  that's fine.  Just because you don't agree you start name calling.  If you don't want NO COPY don't buy NO COPY.  That doesn't change the fact that a merchant can sell it if they want.  

he has the right to estate his opinion but i dont have to like it , further more when his opinion is being pitched AGAINST A FACT !
i am all down for freedom to express your self but that does not mean that your opinion is infallible against fact checking 

Edited September 19, 2018 by vvvRavenvvv

[Cindy Evanier]

1 minute ago, vvvRavenvvv said:

AGAINST A FACT

What fact?

[Phil Deakins]

@Cindy Evanier

I appreciate your post, Cindy, but don't concern yourself with him. It's obvious that he likes being argumentative just for the sake of it, regardless of any reality or truth, so I have him on ignore now.

[vvvRavenvvv]

Just now, Cindy Evanier said:

What fact?

that copy items are the only way against some of the technical issues of SL and that those copies does not mean greed and that  those copy items are not worth more then the no copy items when it comes to creators as he claims it to be those items are not '' manufactured '' and the fact that he is making a ***** ton of logical fallacies which are called fallacies for a reason 

[vvvRavenvvv]

3 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

@Cindy Evanier

I appreciate your post, Cindy, but don't concern yourself with him. It's obvious that he likes being argumentative just for the sake of it, regardless of any reality or truth, so I have him on ignore now.

dont make claims on what little you think you know its called argument from ignorance and in this case you dont know me to make that claim  and dont create a straw man out of my argument  , i dont enjoy it but it is here and it is obviously some thing many have argued before me , while your tactic of demolishing the person rather then point would work on weak minded folk it does not change the argument in its core ... how about you stick to topic ?

Edited September 19, 2018 by vvvRavenvvv

[Cindy Evanier]

1 minute ago, vvvRavenvvv said:

that copy items are the only way against some of the technical issues of SL and that those copies does not mean greed and that  those copy items are not worth more then the no copy items when it comes to creators as he claims it to be those items are not '' manufactured '' and the fact that he is making a ***** ton of logical fallacies which are called fallacies for a reason 

I don't see it as a fact while the permissions system allows for things to be no copy.  

For the record our stuff is copy but that doesn't change the FACT that while people CAN sell no copy then they should be allowed to if they believe it right for them.  

[vvvRavenvvv]

it allows for creators to make no copy items for a Reason which is logical based on the item and type of product , but that does not mean that it being as function means its okay to use it anywhere   you just committed a black and white fallacy while actively making a fallacy of composition 
as many have pointed out before in case of furniture for an example its unfair for it to be no copy since the risk of losing the item and your money is significantly higher and rezzing a 2nd copy in case of losing one costs no one no extra fees if the item was made copy in the first place ....

the argument in its core is what would you prefer and why , which is a very REAL question related to the majority of the economic system of SL , functions , item use  AND creators / user's choices & future planing 

and while he made the claim of it being greed and being a way to control product use and other claims made by every one in support of making no copy furniture for an example it simply does not work due to reasons every one have pointed out 
- its greedy to want endless copies of some thing 
is false because it costs the creator no material or shipping etc other then the required to do the job as it being digital content not to mention the creator only created ONE which they can sell an endless amount of time without paying for raw material or paying any extra fees
this is one example as to why i disagree with this guy and there are many listed above 
i urge people to pay attention to the topic and claims made as they are intestinal to where this argument is being led 

Edited September 19, 2018 by vvvRavenvvv

[AyelaNewLife]

15 hours ago, Marianne Little said:

Things to wear: No need for copy.

Unless it comes with a resize script, a colour change hud (even if it's just the buttons), autoalpha, or any kind of script at all, or anything that might need repositioning. In that case, copy+mod is essential, copy at a minimum. 

(Gacha items tend to have none of those features, and default position co ords are easy to jot down in a notecard to let you "reset" the item, so the necessary lack of copy is less of an issue.)

42 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

Many words over many pages

Out of interest, if a customer that didn't appear to be in the rental business contacted you saying that SL ate a no-copy piece of furniture that they bought from you, (and assuming they did actually buy it etc etc), would you be willing to send over a single replacement for free? And do you think that is standard practice?

I don't really buy furniture, as I don't really "entertain at home", the flat I bum off a friend is mostly full of poseballs, anypose stands and lighting projectors; but if there was some kind of "insurance" against SL-fu through common sense customer service then that would make me much happier buying no-copy furniture.

Obviously "oops looks like SL ate my sexbed 3000 for the ninth time this week; but this time can I have it in black?" types can take a hike.

Edited September 19, 2018 by AyelaNewLife
autocorrect is bad

[vvvRavenvvv]

2 minutes ago, AyelaNewLife said:

Unless it comes with a resize script, a colour change hud (even if it's just the buttons), autoalpha, or any kind of script at all, or anything that might need repositioning. In that case, copy+mod is essential, copy at a minimum. 

(Gacha items tend to have none of those features, and default position co ords are easy to jot down in a notecard to let you "reset" the item, so the necessary lack of copy is less of an issue.)

Out of interest, if a customer that didn't appear to be in the rental business contacted you saying that SL ate a no-copy piece of furniture that they bought from you, (and assuming they did actually buy it etc etc), would you be willing to send over a single replacement for free? And do you think that is stand practice?

I don't really buy furniture, as I don't really "entertain at home", the flat I bum off a friend is mostly full of poseballs, anypose stands and lighting projectors; but if there was some kind of "insurance" against SL-fu through common sense customer service then that would make me much happier buying no-copy furniture.

Obviously "oops looks like SL ate my sexbed 3000 for the ninth time this week; but this time can I have it in black?" types can take a hike.

ladies and gentlemen here is a very logical argument that actually allows the possibilities rather then bending reality  

well done Ayela

[Cindy Evanier]

@vvvRavenvvv  Thank you for stating your views in a reasoned post rather than the previous ones.  I do agree with you copy items are better.  I also think the best way to change peoples minds is sensible discussion rather than ranting because views differ.  I still stand by it is a merchants right to set whatever perms they want and it is a customers right to walk on by and find something that has the perms they require.

Edited September 19, 2018 by Cindy Evanier
I cant spell 3 letter words :/

[vvvRavenvvv]

@Cindy Evanier you are welcome and while you are basing the argument on Choice my issue with it all and where it turned in to a rant is because you as  Phill did pitch the logical argument as an opinion or '' stating your views '' mean while logic and fact checking is not a View ....that is why its not acceptable
even if we wanted to base it on an actual View point such as morality its still unethical   

Edited September 19, 2018 by vvvRavenvvv

[Phorumities]

2 hours ago, Phil Deakins said:

I thought I'd go out and look, since I've got the impression from here that 'copy' is the only way to succeed.

I went to two business that were comptitors of mine back in the day. I only examined a few samples from each. The most interesting one for me was Prim Possible, which sells some items that are copyable, and others, including sex beds, that are transfer only. The transfer only items did not have accompanying copy versions at a higher price. So I'm not convinced at all that copy is the only way to go. Of course, the majority of people here are buyers, not sellers, so views are bound to be biased in favour of copy, just as my view is biased from a seller's standpoint. It may be that a lot more money can be made by selling copyable furniture these days, but, in the unlikely event of me ever doing it again, I still wouldn't allow landlords to take advanatge and rez dozens of copies for the price of one, two, or three. It would grate too much.

That was just some observations - not arguments.

I wouldn't do it again anyway. I didn't intend doing it the first place, and I didn't particulary want the success. I just sort of accidentally stumbled into it. But that's an old story.

I have a prim possible corner mesh sex sofa. I have rezzed dozens of copies since  I bought it. I'd have NEVER paid for a no copy version.

Buying copy means buying a license to rezz as many as you want or need.

I buy something, i buy it once to use as I see fit, and if that means i'm gonna rezz 50 copies, so be it, you got paid.

[vvvRavenvvv]

1 minute ago, Phorumities said:

I have a prim possible corner mesh sex sofa. I have rezzed dozens of copies since  I bought it. I'd have NEVER paid for a no copy version.

Buying copy means buying a license to rezz as many as you want or need.

I buy something, i buy it once to use as I see fit, and if that means i'm gonna rezz 50 copies, so be it, you got paid.

exactly! 
you got payed --->Fact 
you got payed fairly based on the price you set for the product --> Fact 
quantity does not mean extra effort or time or fees on the creators part ---> Fact
there for this argument is Fact 
any claim that tries to change this needs to first be proven before building any argument on

[Coby Foden]

15 hours ago, Marianne Little said:

Things to wear: No need for copy.

Earlier I had some no-copy animations in my AO. It was always hair raising experience when editing it and adding more animations into it.  "Please SL don't eat my precious AO while I'm editing it".  I always tried to do the editing as quickly as possible. It was a big relief when it was finally safely back in my inventory after editing, phew!

Therefore now I have only copy animations in the AO. Makes things safer. I like copy items in all other wearable items too. I like to tweak modifiable stuff. For no-copy items it's always risky.

[vvvRavenvvv]

the claim of this being to Wear means no Copy it also means you have a high risk of breaking it while moding it to add your personal touch which just sucks , while its not an Evil practice its just a *****ty one

[Phil Deakins]

28 minutes ago, AyelaNewLife said:

Out of interest, if a customer that didn't appear to be in the rental business contacted you saying that SL ate a no-copy piece of furniture that they bought from you, (and assuming they did actually buy it etc etc), would you be willing to send over a single replacement for free? And do you think that is standard practice?

I already posted the answer to that, but I'll repeat it.

I usually replaced items that were lost, but not always. Sometimes I helped the owners find the items, because they'd lost them by making a mistake. I also helped the owners out when they hadn't lost them but had made mistakes with them, such as accidentally retexturing them. In one case, a customer had edited it to the point of it no longer working, and couldn't make it work again. I fixed those accidents by replacing the items, which was quicker than actually reparing them.

I provided excellent customer service.

 

[vvvRavenvvv]

27 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

I already posted the answer to that, but I'll repeat it.

I usually replaced items that were lost, but not always. Sometimes I helped the owners find the items, because they'd lost them by making a mistake. I also helped the owners out when they hadn't lost them but had made mistakes with them, such as accidentally retexturing them. In one case, a customer had edited it to the point of it no longer working, and couldn't make it work again. I fixed those accidents by replacing the items, which was quicker than actually reparing them.

I provided excellent customer service.

 

would it not be easier and faster if they could..gee i dont know... REZ A new one without having you over see operations ?and for how far will you continue this  ''optional '' support ' your grace bestow up on them humble costumers ? and what about the other creators who DONT do this practice ?what if they need it urgently while your grace is not online ? ... yea right 
 

[Hintswen Guardian]

22 hours ago, Phil Deakins said:

@KT Kingsley

I didn't say that, and you should know it!

When someone suggested that it was greed to want to "maximise your income", as you put it, I said that it probably was. Your comment was just plain silly.

It's normal for businesses to try to maximise their profits (you'd think it odd if they didn't), and it's also normal to buy an item and be unable to multiply it (you'd think it odd if you could). Just because it's possible to multiply items in SL, doesn't mean that, therefore, everything must be sold that way. Be happy that some things are, and try to stop being critical when they are not. Be content with the things you can buy that suit your preferences. It's no good fighting a battle you can't win. I already won that particular battle years ago, and you can't change that

When I buy a game, I expect to be able to play it on multiple PC's if I want to. When I buy a digital album, I expect to be able to play it on my PC and make a copy on my phone and be able to play it there to. I think it's the same with furniture on SL. I will gladly buy no-copy furniture if I like it and it's reasonably priced though but I wouldn't buy multiple to put in multiple houses. I would find another seller.

Edited September 19, 2018 by Hintswen Guardian

[Qie Niangao]

2 hours ago, Phorumities said:

Buying copy means buying a license to rezz as many as you want or need.

Just to add: not only as many, but also as often. It may be idiosyncratic, but I often go through many designs for a parcel before I arrive at one that stays intact for a while. Meanwhile, the very last thing I need is to keep track of no-copy items I've used that I'm removing in the next design attempt. That's how I've ended up deleting more no-copy trees than survive in my inventory.

Of course, part of the reason there are hardly any no-copy trees in my inventory now is that hardly anybody sells them anymore. I remember it used to be a thing, and I was so L$-pinching that I'd stand around Botanical debating with myself which version to buy: Will I use multiple copies of the full-priced Copy perm version, or should I save a few L$s on the el cheapo no-copy version?

It was only after years of regret that I understood the extra price for Copy was so worth it, even if I never had more than one copy rezzed at a time.

[Fionalein]

4 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

...

other reasons:

• I like linking furniture to my yacht... no copy would make the whole yacht no copy and it would make each sim crossing a gamble...
• I like stuffing scenes into holodeck rezzers, my room can be ready to party or untidy or a gaming evening on one click, but the holo rezzer needs mod and copy stuff