Forum becoming more negative?

[Tari Landar]

1 hour ago, Callum Meriman said:

I sometimes wonder if your TTS has to stop and take a deep breath (light hearted words said with a smile), but your posts are well reasoned and mostly valid.

Haha, it has most definitely put up with a lot of abuse. 

Most of the time here, I don't use a TTS, or any program for that matter (hence, sig), it takes too long, and most of the programs don't function nearly as well as people think they do. I have a program I use that was created for me that better suits my needs outside of forums. I used to use one here all the time too, but got tired of it, the constant back and forthing between it and the forums grows tedious. I also don't have to worry about my GPA dropping here.  

I type extremely fast, and I don't look at my keyboard when typing-obvious I'm sure, I couldn't read the keyboard even if I did look at it. I just happen to know where every single key on my keyboard is because I had to learn it as a little kid, my mom made me. I may not have appreciated it as a young child, but I definitely do as an adult. The vast majority of my typos are just because I type way too fast and I'm too lazy to proofread most of the time, rofl. 

Just don't give me a new keyboard that has a different layout, and I'm good to go. 

[Rya Nitely]

7 hours ago, Callum Meriman said:

Oh and a word for Rya, as a now recovered from depression Aussie (took 15 years and three suicide attempts), I absolutely abhor RUOK day, I'm as strong as hell and think most people fighting mental health issues are too. We don't need fake pity from people on just one day of the year.

I'd far prefer genuine acceptance and understanding of mental health issues 365 days a year without that saccarine sweetness shown on just one day then forgotten.

Having experienced RUOK day since it started I believe it sends the wrong message. People struggling with mental health don't need just one day of this, they need understanding and support 365 days a year. They dont need Prime Minister Kevin Rudd, Julia Gillard, Kevin Rudd, Tony Abbott, Malcolm Turnbull, Scott Morrison to wear a token lapel badge as they shout down the opposition in question time as a political point. They need the Prime Minister to actually give some serious funding to mental health.

It's all about awareness and support. Raise the topic and discuss it. Just as people needed to be made aware and support LGBT rights, racial prejudice, gender equality, domestic abuse, bullying etc. Mental illness and its prevention needs to be recognised and supported. My workplace has been made aware, I get support and I feel safe. I'm not constantly stressed and anxious at work anymore. I actually don't mind going. I never thought I'd ever say that. So, it is working for me, and therefore it must work for many others.

It's not enough to say toughen up. It takes support as well. We can't do it alone.

Callum, I'm glad UROK.

[Ethan Paslong]

7 minutes ago, Rya Nitely said:

It takes support as well. We can't do it alone.

 you can get support... but you'll have to do it yourself.

Those dedicated days are a disaster,  normal education would give better results, but now it's one day, and 364 others you hear nothing.

99% of the people won't even be seen, they have no need for protected work or special projects. It even can work against it. You'll be seen as different, and even with all possible awareness and education : if you'r different you'll stand out of the crowd, positive or negative.

 

 

[Rya Nitely]

thanks for your post. 

I do have support, and I help myself. I practice mindfulness meditation in a group at work (which is another way the workplace is supporting mental health), I see a psychiatrist, I take medication .

I am impressed with the way things have changed in my workplace. I don't feel any negativity - and anyone who feels negative because I get special treatment is not letting me know - so that's OK. Don't let me know and I'll be fine.

I would never have been able to return to work if I wasn't given support. I was struggling with even one day. So, I'll take this.

Workplace support and awareness of mental illness isn't just for one day. There are other daily messages, such as enforcing respect, People Matter surveys, and of course anti-bullying. RUOK is just one more reminder. These policies have also changed the way management and HR treat staff.

[Rya Nitely]

10 hours ago, Callum Meriman said:

They dont need Prime Minister Kevin Rudd, Julia Gillard, Kevin Rudd, Tony Abbott, Malcolm Turnbull, Scott Morrison to wear a token lapel badge as they shout down the opposition in question time as a political point.

Now there's a very good example of a toxic working environment - our parliament. In the same way, my working environment was toxic, with people clawing their way to the top, and management playing people against each other, and HR supporting management, and disciplining staff. You weren't allowed to have a voice. Nobody could speak up against that toxic system for fear of losing their place in that hierarchy. And so it went, and I'm not the only one who was adversely affected.

But I am getting better, whatever I'm doing, whatever choices I'm making, it is working for me.

 

[Madelaine McMasters]

17 hours ago, Callum Meriman said:

I'm very open to change!

I like affirmation as much as the next gal, but it really is lovely to have someone change your mind, particularly if they do it without embarrassment. When you consider just how much there is to know, there should be no shame in not knowing... a lot. And when you consider just how comforting it is to think you know something, it shouldn't be surprising that much of what we know is... wrong.

[Madelaine McMasters]

15 hours ago, Tari Landar said:

A lot of things...

Tari, if I ever start feeling sorry for myself, I'll think of you.

And then I'll get angry at myself and do something about it.

 

 

You do make me smile.

[Tari Landar]

3 hours ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

Tari, if I ever start feeling sorry for myself, I'll think of you.

And then I'll get angry at myself and do something about it.

 

 

You do make me smile.

Well thank you...that's very kind of you

I do the same thing when I have rough days. Sometimes I feel super, super sorry for myself, and then I get stuck in whine mode, everything's a chore or annoyance. So, I try to I think of others, who live lives far worse than mine could ever be. Then I stop feeling sorry for myself, because I have way more to be grateful for than so many, the world over. I have far, far more to be grateful for than complain about, the comparison just isn't even remotely close. For every complaint I have, I have at least three or four things to be grateful for, and that's more than good enough for me..even on my worst days. Though I COULD really do without yearly vision exams at this point, lol. Last time I went in, a couple weeks ago, I had to see a new doc, and he wanted to know, after giving me the full machine involved exams(ridiculously long I might add, so they can measure even the most miniscule changes), how I managed driving there. Clearly this man did not read my chart, or even really pay attention to the results the machines spit out for him, lol.  I told him, dead serious, I didn't drive, I flew. He wasn't amused, the nurse was though, and that was enough for me   

[Rya Nitely]

On 9/16/2018 at 4:42 PM, Solar Legion said:

So? Just move right on by the bloody post.

I'm sorry but as a mentally ill person  trying to recover, I just cannot see how nobody detects anything but 'good advice' in this comment. And I genuinely am trying to work out why, for my own good I suppose. Am I correct in thinking I can use this type of comment to anyone and not cause offence?

If someone is slow I can say 'So? Just bloody get on with it' 'So? just bloody move faster'

If someone is upset - 'So, just bloody ignore it' 'So, just bloody get over it'

This is acceptable, respectful? Well, I must be really sick. I will discuss it with my psychiatrist, how I find using the words 'So? Just bloody....' in a sentence a bit sharp.

Weird, just weird that people don't acknowledge that. That's the problem, how people stick together, and that leads to the mental illness of others, They feel alone, isolated.

And Phil will say ' Well, if people are sensitive, then they should just stay away from other groups of people'. Which means isolation. Really? That's what they should do?

All it takes is for people to be a bit kinder, but that's too much to expect. 

I also notice that not one person supported anything I said, and I was simply talking about being kind and thinking of the impact your words can have on someone before you say it.

It's actually easier to be nice.

Here's advice to anyone wanting to give advice

So? Just bloody show respect

 

[Rya Nitely]

Solar, I know you aren't well either. Be kind to yourself

I wish you well

[Rya Nitely]

But my post was also meant to have a touch of humour, so thanks for appreciating that 

[Solar Legion]

Look, as harsh as that may have come off to you, it would seem others understood that it was an expression of exasperation. 

There are those in this forum that refuse to use the tools available to them to avoid drama. Some that will use those tools but go off the rails (so to speak) when the user they have on ignore is quoted by someone else. 

Personally? I have no sympathy for such types. At all. 

I'm still sipping on coffee so may get back to this later... You're more than welcome to send a PM or IM (in world for the latter) - somehow, I don't see you as the drama monger type. 

As a final note - I am glad you picked up on the fact that the laugh reaction meant both amusement and somewhat amused disagreement. 

[Tari Landar]

32 minutes ago, Rya Nitely said:

I'm sorry but as a mentally ill person  trying to recover, I just cannot see how nobody detects anything but 'good advice' in this comment. And I genuinely am trying to work out why, for my own good I suppose. Am I correct in thinking I can use this type of comment to anyone and not cause offence?

If someone is slow I can say 'So? Just bloody get on with it' 'So? just bloody move faster'

If someone is upset - 'So, just bloody ignore it' 'So, just bloody get over it'

This is acceptable, respectful? Well, I must be really sick. I will discuss it with my psychiatrist, how I find using the words 'So? Just bloody....' in a sentence a bit sharp.

Weird, just weird that people don't acknowledge that. That's the problem, how people stick together, and that leads to the mental illness of others, They feel alone, isolated.

And Phil will say ' Well, if people are sensitive, then they should just stay away from other groups of people'. Which means isolation. Really? That's what they should do?

All it takes is for people to be a bit kinder, but that's too much to expect. 

I also notice that not one person supported anything I said, and I was simply talking about being kind and thinking of the impact your words can have on someone before you say it.

It's actually easier to be nice.

Here's advice to anyone wanting to give advice

So? Just bloody show respect

 

You know that you can take the same advice you're giving others, right? I have absolutely zero doubt that we have all come across "sharp", to someone along the way here no the forums, no exclusions. You seem to show little to no respect for others' opinions about the same amount as most of the rest of us too. It's not wise to single anyone out, if you don't want to be singled out yourself. If that comes across offensive, and I fear it probably will, you should know that it's merely your interpretation, because there is no offense intended in it, whatsoever. It's really just me pointing out the obvious, that we're all pretty guilty of a lot of things we point out in others, but fail to see in ourselves.

There is also another huge problem too, the fact that your, my, or any other interpretation of something that is said and/or done, could very well be miles off. When it gets pointed out to us, an issue usually ensues, of some sort. We're either offended, or act as if we are, because it has now been pointed out that we were wrong about something, or we get defensive in general that we're not wrong-even if we're not offended. At any rate, it leads to stupid squabbles about semantics, and we're all guilty of it. 

I think sometimes, we make our battles into wars, and there's not much sense in doing that. I do it all the time, maybe that's why it's easy for me to see when it's happening..or maybe not, I've been known to be wrong quite often too. I maintain that is the case here, and though I may understand why you are making this battle with that one phrase into a war, I do not agree that it's a necessary war.  This is precisely what I meant when I said pick your battles. 

 

Edited September 18, 2018 by Tari Landar

[Drake1 Nightfire]

On 9/12/2018 at 2:02 PM, Skell Dagger said:

Ah, but in the past we had the One Troll to Rule Them All, who - together with his multitudinous alts - pestered the forums. He spread himself far and wide (and very thin) across many people's patience, and - while he may have come across as a nice person to some - he did his damndest to persecute and drive away from the forum a select few people (mostly women) whom he'd set his sights on.

(And in his style of 'witty' bracketed afterthought sign-off:  boy, did he hate that I had him muted and refused to rise to his goading )

You smell to coffee.

[Rya Nitely]

 

Tari

It's an example of advice that could be given with a better tone to it. It might not affect you, but it does affect many people. And it's why some people see the forums as negative.

It's worth considering

 

 

Edited September 18, 2018 by Rya Nitely

[Rya Nitely]

28 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

 

I'm still sipping on coffee so may get back to this later... You're more than welcome to send a PM or IM (in world for the latter) - somehow, I don't see you as the drama monger type. 

As a final note - I am glad you picked up on the fact that the laugh reaction meant both amusement and somewhat amused disagreement. 

Thank you

A bit of kindness goes a long way ?,

and negativity goes even further ?

Edited September 18, 2018 by Rya Nitely

[Solar Legion]

"Kindness" does not always mean being soft or gentle in one's responses - it can also mean being as blunt as possible. 

There is a reason my forum rank says "Quite Blunt" ya know... 

If that rankles, remember it isn't personal. 

Edited September 18, 2018 by Solar Legion

[Tari Landar]

22 minutes ago, Rya Nitely said:

 

Tari

It's an example of advice that could be given with a better tone to it. It might not affect you, but it does affect many people. And it's why some people see the forums as negative.

It's worth considering

 

 

I do consider it, lol.  I didn't say it was bad advice at all, because it's not. I also didn't say anything about how it can affect others. Tone is one of the worst interpretations we make of the written(typed?) word. We're not often right when we do it either-and, again, we're all guilty of that.  

What I said was sometimes we make our battles into wars and I believe that's worth considering too.  When we make things into larger issues than they really are, even if only for personal reasons we'd rather not share with the class, we only make things harder on ourselves. That is doubly important for someone who- whether temporarily or consistently- battles with mental health issues.  We also make it easier to find negativity when we do that, because we put ourselves in a negative state of mind and will find it nearly anywhere at that point. I know it very well, I do it all the time myself. It is because I'm so familiar with doing it that I feel I can point it out, otherwise, I wouldn't have, because it would most definitely have come across as a complete insult-and likely people would think it was intentional too.  

I think both bits are good advice...watch how you speak/interact AND watch how you interpret

[Skell Dagger]

5 hours ago, Rya Nitely said:

I just cannot see how nobody detects anything but 'good advice' in this comment.

Since I was the person who stated in this thread that Solar's comment was "good advice" your remark is clearly aimed at me, and thus I'm going to respond (in the very limited five minutes that I have available before I need to leave for work).

Yes, the words that we use are very important. But so is how we read and interpret words, which - in theory - should be 'carefully and with thought', but which - in reality - rarely is. It is human nature to see what our current mood or emotion makes us see.

These are Solar's exact words, with highlighting by me:

Quote

So? Just move right on by the bloody post.

This is what you read in those words and have subsequently focused on:

5 hours ago, Rya Nitely said:

'So? Just bloody get on with it'

'So? just bloody move faster'

'So, just bloody ignore it'

'So, just bloody get over it'

You're transposing their words, so that the frustration shown by the use of the word 'bloody' is settled onto the action that Solar urges should be done (aka: move on), instead of settling onto the thing that needs to be overcome (aka: the post). Not "move right on by" (the [frustrating] post) but instead "[frustrated] move right on by" (the post). You've read their words as putting the onus squarely on the person, instead of on the thing, and that is not what was originally said.

To reiterate: the frustration Solar expressed in their post is with the thing that needs to be overcome, not at the person who 'should' overcome it.

And now I'm out of time and need to leave. I dislike posting before work because I can't come back to my post for another nine hours, but I wanted to respond to this one. My apologies in advance if my limited time meant that I phrased anything poorly; I've literally hammered this response out, quickly checked it over, then hit 'post' (and am about to run out the door!)

[Phil Deakins]

7 hours ago, Rya Nitely said:

And Phil will say ' Well, if people are sensitive, then they should just stay away from other groups of people'. Which means isolation. Really? That's what they should do?

That statement surprised me, because Phil will not say that sensitive people should "just stay away from other groups of people. Which means isolation". Phil hasn't indicated that he thinks anything like that. But I have indicated that, if a very sensitive person sees a fire, s/he shouldn't jump into it, and, if s/he didn't know it was fire and it started to burn, jump out of it. I.e. a very sensitive person is able recognise where it's not a good idea for them to be, and is able to avoid it. Taking it to a false extreme, as you did in the statement I quoted, and then finding the other person at fault because of the imagined extreme, greatly hinders your purpose in the discussion, because it sets the 'victim' of the falseness against you.

ETA: I hadn't even noticed the quoted statement until Skell's post above this one. I read his post and looked to see where you'd said what he quoted. It was there that I noticed your statement about me, and that you'd not only taken a simply phrase and interpreted it to mean a range of things that it didn't mean, as Skell pointed out, but you also put a false attitude into my mouth and judged it to be wrong as though I'd actually stated it. I didn't even read the rest of that post, so I don't know if there were other wrong things in it as well.

You entered this thread, saying that kindness is the best way, and you were right. But misinterpreting what people say, and then judging them guilty of those misinterpretations, is anything but kindness.

Edited September 18, 2018 by Phil Deakins

[Rya Nitely]

8 hours ago, Solar Legion said:

"Kindness" does not always mean being soft or gentle in one's responses - it can also mean being as blunt as possible. 

There is a reason my forum rank says "Quite Blunt" ya know... 

If that rankles, remember it isn't personal. 

There is something extremely wrong with what you are saying here. You and your supporters don't see that?

Nobody is helped by bluntness. It just upsets people. There is absolutely no good professional advice that would be given bluntly. Wouldn't professional advisors be using this method if it worked with people?

Bluntness helps people? We are adults. It's just bloody rudeness.  (bloody being an acceptable word to use, apparently)

I'm wasting my time talking to you and your supporters . You are just not the sort of people I would ever want to talk to, or know.

I am exasperated by you. You think getting irritated and laughing at people is your strength?

Sensitivity is a strength. What you are describing is a weakness. 

[Rya Nitely]

On 9/16/2018 at 7:31 PM, Phil Deakins said:

I've nothing better to do right now so...

We in this forum are a mix of people - of natures. Some tend to be more kind than others, some tend to be more negative than others, some are both at different times, some tend to be argumentative, some tend to be accusatory (is that a word?), some tend to be helpful, etc. etc. In other words we are a pretty regular mix of humanity, each of us different to everyone else, and each of us displays the various aspects of our natures at different times.

Therefore, I don't think it's the best thing to think that everyone should be like <insert yourself here>, so it's a waste of time trying to correct or guide others into being more like <insert yourself here>. As a community, we are what we are. If a community of people is unappealing, then the best thing to do is opt out of it, because, whilst it may be possible to effect a change in one or two people, it's highly unlikely that a change can be effected in the whole community.

Having said that, by all means pick a person up for being unkind, or unreasonably negative. It may not have an effect on the person, but it would show the target that the whole community doesn't think the same way.

Sorry, if I misunderstood your post but here is why:

'We in this forum are a mix of people - of natures. Some tend to be more kind than others, some tend to be more negative than others, some are both at different times, some tend to be argumentative, some tend to be accusatory (is that a word?), some tend to be helpful, etc. etc. In other words we are a pretty regular mix of humanity, each of us different to everyone else, and each of us displays the various aspects of our natures at different times.'

So, this is implying that 'the fire' is everywhere. This type of community or group is everywhere.

'As a community, we are what we are. If a community of people is unappealing, then the best thing to do is opt out of it'

hence, why doing this would be to isolate oneself.

[Cindy Evanier]

11 minutes ago, Rya Nitely said:

Wouldn't professional advisors be using this method if it worked with people?

I have to say when I first got ill and lost the use of my legs from a spinal infection, I had 2 lots of care professionals come in to help me learn to walk again.  First were what I call the hand patters, who came and sat and were all "there there it will get better, how are you feeling" - result = nothing I just carried on laying in bed. Then my guardian angel walks in.  "Get out that damn bed"  "I know you are tired but just 3 more steps"   "What are you dragging that leg for?  Think about it"  "Stairs.. two more!"  Then add some swear words and humour,  result = 6 weeks later walking mostly unaided around the house.  I cried when she left caring for me.  She was the reason I can walk not the hand patters.  I know this isn't directly related to mental health but in a way it was,  those hand patters did nothing for my mental health and attitude.  

This is just my experience and what worked for me.  

[Ethan Paslong]

21 minutes ago, Rya Nitely said:

You and your supporters don't see that?

I'm wasting my time talking to you and your supporters .

this discussion is officially dead ... just have to wait till all realise it.

Both views are a side of the medal, as soon one thinks it's the only one, all other things will be ignored.

[Rya Nitely]

4 minutes ago, Cindy Evanier said:

I have to say when I first got ill and lost the use of my legs from a spinal infection, I had 2 lots of care professionals come in to help me learn to walk again.  First were what I call the hand patters, who came and sat and were all "there there it will get better, how are you feeling" - result = nothing I just carried on laying in bed. Then my guardian angel walks in.  "Get out that damn bed"  "I know you are tired but just 3 more steps"   "What are you dragging that leg for?  Think about it"  "Stairs.. two more!"  Then add some swear words and humour,  result = 6 weeks later walking mostly unaided around the house.  I cried when she left caring for me.  She was the reason I can walk not the hand patters.  I know this isn't directly related to mental health but in a way it was,  those hand patters did nothing for my mental health and attitude.  

This is just my experience and what worked for me.  

Your advisor wasn't being rude to you at all.