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Julio Swansong

Marketplace item flagged as Adult for Illegal Drugs

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My listing was flagged as being Adult due to illegal drug use references. The item in question contains a reference to marijuana. I am curious as to what jurisdiction LL is following here with regards to what is defined as illegal. Marijuana is not illegal where I live, nor is it in the state of California where Linden Labs is both located and registered as a corporate entity. It is just as legal in both locations as a cigarette, a beer or any other legal adult activity.

Edited by Julio Swansong
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9 hours ago, Julio Swansong said:

My listing was flagged as being Adult due to illegal drug use references. The item in question contains a reference to marijuana. I am curious as to what jurisdiction LL is following here with regards to what is defined as illegal. Marijuana is not illegal where I live, nor is it in the state of California where Linden Labs is both located and registered as a corporate entity. It is just as legal in both locations as a cigarette, a beer or any other legal adult activity.

I believe that "illegal" part could be left over from years past (or maybe not - see the next paragraph).  That being said, marijuana is STILL and adult activity in states where it is legal (I am in Oregon).  I have been selling "Home Grown" marijuana plants (tins can planters) for many years on the Marketplace and yes, they have been flagged as adult most of those years. 

And there could definitely be the argument that marijuana is not FEDERALLY legal -- hence illegal in the majority of states where Marketplace shoppers live. Even if it becomes legal nationwide, it will still be rated as adult.   Other adult recreational items as you mention are also classed as adult on the Marketplace.   Even wine GLASSES can be tagged as adult if The Lab feels like it (it happens) :D.   

Adding this screenshot (one of OH so many courtesy of Google) to show that it is NOT only 3 states that have legalized marijuana. I knew that number was too low but had to look it up :D. Always good to get the facts correct.  Had no clue about New Mexico. 

 

image.png.d7f79930c2e69e2d370ba6fb04e51cd5.png

Edited by Chic Aeon
adding info

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Marijuana is illegal in my country (Thailand), so I am glad your item was flagged.

There is a world outside of America, and users outside of 'your' world also use Second Life.

Gambling is also illegal in Thailand, so I cannot bet on whether people are happy about that.

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Even in the United States, Marijuana is still 100% illegal at the federal level. There are only three states out of 50 (as of this writing) that have legalized it. However the question isn't of legality; it's of the adult nature of the product, which the THC in Cannabis is a drug and as such should be rated as adult.

I have a friend who sells XeoLife stuff and one item, a "Grocery Bag" variety of stuff was delisted because one bullet said "Non-alcoholic Near-Beer". So he removed that one bullet from the description and relisted it LOL

Edited by Alyona Su

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And what has this to do with SL? There are no drugs in SL.

So the question is: is it illegal to roleplay drug usage in a "computer game" or "virtual world"
The answer is NO for most places.

Even that doesn't matter since LL is not obliged to transfer all rl laws to SL.

LL decided that this is adult activity. Point.

Is that good or bad? I find that there are good reasons to declare this as adult so I wouldn't complain.

 

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3 hours ago, Nova Convair said:

And what has this to do with SL? There are no drugs in SL.

So the question is: is it illegal to roleplay drug usage in a "computer game" or "virtual world"
The answer is NO for most places.

Even that doesn't matter since LL is not obliged to transfer all rl laws to SL.

LL decided that this is adult activity. Point.

Is that good or bad? I find that there are good reasons to declare this as adult so I wouldn't complain.

 

I take a couple of exceptions to this logic.

First, at some point, someone always brings in the "it's only pixels on a screen" argument.  By that logic, NOTHING AT ALL should be forbidden in SL.  For that matter, there should be no restrictions on porn or images of violence, anywhere on the internet or indeed in any media whatsoever.  This way lies madness.

Second, the question is not whether a thing is "legal" or not.  This is not an issue about following RL laws.  It is an issue of Linden Lab policy.  And in fact your fourth paragraph states this.  LL says it's Adult...so it's Adult.  End of discussion.

As I have said many times before, there are no laws in SL.  There is only company policy...the ToS, Community Standards, and other referenced LL policy documents.  True, some of those policies were put in place so that LL could comply with certain Real World laws.  But that is the only point of intersection.

The only remaining issue is that when LL flagged the item as Adult, they said it was because it depicted "illegal drug use" (quoting the OP).  I think that was a bit sloppily worded on LL's part.  As the OP pointed out, marijuana use is not illegal in some places.  So perhaps LL should think about revising some of their cut-and-paste responses.

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8 minutes ago, Lindal Kidd said:

LL says it's Adult...so it's Adult.  End of discussion.

There's the bottom line.  Yes,

8 minutes ago, Lindal Kidd said:

perhaps LL should think about revising some of their cut-and-paste responses.

but they still get to say what's acceptable or not.  They own the Marketplace. 

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On 8/30/2018 at 9:40 PM, Julio Swansong said:

due to illegal drug use references

Poor phrasing on their part.

 

On 8/30/2018 at 9:40 PM, Julio Swansong said:

It is just as legal in both locations as a cigarette, a beer or any other legal adult activity.

This is the true answer as to why it was flagged as Adult.  You said it yourself -- it is an ADULT ACTIVITY.

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People. I never had a problem with it being flagged as adult, nor was I complaining. The part i was curious about was the "illegal drugs" wording. At no time did I ask why it was flagged as adult nor did I make any mention it shouldn't be. I just wanted to know how they determine what is "illegal"

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16 hours ago, Julio Swansong said:

People. I never had a problem with it being flagged as adult, nor was I complaining. The part i was curious about was the "illegal drugs" wording. At no time did I ask why it was flagged as adult nor did I make any mention it shouldn't be. I just wanted to know how they determine what is "illegal"

You have a short memory. Your answer is HERE:

As for why it is worded that way: because an AR is a selection of pre-written terms in a pull-down list; The word "Illegal" is part of that one and only term that applies: "Drugs". And even so: in RL it (cannabis and THC) IS illegal.

Now sue your school for failing to edify you on basic deductive reasoning.

Edited by Alyona Su
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On 8/31/2018 at 5:48 AM, Alyona Su said:

There are only three states out of 50 (as of this writing) that have legalized it

Side note - Wiki is now showing 9 states (Alaska, California, Colorado, Maine, Massachusetts, Nevada, Oregon, Vermont, and Washington) plus DC as being legal for recreational use.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_cannabis_by_U.S._jurisdiction

 

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1 hour ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Side note - Wiki is now showing 9 states (Alaska, California, Colorado, Maine, Massachusetts, Nevada, Oregon, Vermont, and Washington) plus DC as being legal for recreational use.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_cannabis_by_U.S._jurisdiction

 

Good to know (I'm in Washington) - still 100% illegal at the Federal level. Which is a funny conundrum? LOL

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2 hours ago, Alyona Su said:

Good to know (I'm in Washington) - still 100% illegal at the Federal level. Which is a funny conundrum? LOL

I wonder how many states will have to legalize it before the Federal level finally comes on board.

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This is not about illegal or about jurisdiction. References to marijuana are simply deemed 'Adult' by the MP ToS, just like references to alcohol and cigarettes are considered 'Moderate'. I suspect LL just wants to be on the safe side and transcend local, federal, and international marketing rules in order to stay out of any future legal trouble.

Apart from that, most LL emails are written with very ambiguous and often irrelevant wording. That is because they have a standard set of letters at hand, and don't take the time to correct them to match them in context of a specific situation. Or they pick the wrong standard reply letter and leave it at that.

I was once temp-banned over a trademark issue. I named a sculptie bike, colloquially,  'Hell's Angels Chopper', back in 2009--Nine years later, Linden Lab got a cease and desist letter from the Hells Angels legal department and because of it, LL sent me a letter that the product was removed due to... I'm not kidding...  'keyword spam'. From my side nothing to be ashamed of--even Disney and may major Hollywood movie studios got in legal trouble because few expect a criminal organization to legally protect their brand so fiercely. But this is just one example of several confusing statements I got in apparently standard replies from LL.

Clearly, there is little logic behind the content of many take-down notices. This could possibly be carelessness, or due to work stress and understaffing.

Edited by Arduenn Schwartzman

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Greetings!

Second Life is bound by US Federal Law along with the laws in the state of California as stated in the Terms of Service and Terms and Conditions.

https://www.lindenlab.com/tos

https://www.lindenlab.com/legal/second-life-terms-and-conditions

Please keep in mind that Second Life is also an international platform. 

Just because YOUR city/state/country says it is not illegal for you to smoke dope, doesn't mean it is legal to do so elsewhere. 

 

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1 minute ago, Dakota Linden said:

Greetings!

Second Life is bound by US Federal Law along with the laws in the state of California as stated in the Terms of Service and Terms and Conditions.

https://www.lindenlab.com/tos

https://www.lindenlab.com/legal/second-life-terms-and-conditions

Please keep in mind that Second Life is also an international platform. 

Just because YOUR city/state/country says it is not illegal for you to smoke dope, doesn't mean it is legal to do so elsewhere. 

 

I’ve seen avatars in Second Life with “joints”. Against TOS?

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1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I’ve seen avatars in Second Life with “joints”. Against TOS?

No. Because they can only be seen in-world. This thread is all about the Market Place, which *can* be seen out in the real world. And anything marked as General does not require a login to see it (meaning literally anyone can see it). I may be mistaken, but I've always understood that once logged-in, but not "Adult-verified" you can see General and Mature items, but not Adult items.

In either case, I believe this thread (and subject) is about what is shown to the real-world public at large.

Edited by Alyona Su
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