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Patch Linden is doing something with the Sansara sims north of SSP - Osmium, Iridium, Platinum, Ruthenium, Rhodium, and Palladium. Those are all vacant and owned by Patch Linden. Palladium is a sim-sized hole in the ground.

While SSP connects the continents, once you get to Sansara, there's no place to go. No water, road, or rail connections. The south side of Sansara is very sparse.

Over at Alcona, there's a road headed south. It was never finished to the coast, but LL owns the right of way through Schell. Two more water sims, south of Schell and Shawangunk, and there would be a place for a dock. Then you could go by road to the dock and continue all the way to Jeogeot. Maybe we'll get a ferry to SSP, like the tug between Heterocera and Sansar.

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13 minutes ago, Alyona Su said:

Here it is - SSP at the south of Sansara.

It's finicky but does show if you get it just right (this is in Catznip viewer)

 

Does Catznip show you the region names like on https://maps.secondlife.com ?
(Go to https://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Osmium/205/81/92 and scroll down)

EDIT: The map seems to have been updated and you can now get SLURLS directly to the sims on Belliseria, like to my fave region name, https://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Buitenwijk/205/81/92

Edited by Fritigern Gothly
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Preliminary map of Belliseria, with region names. March 26th, 2019. 12:53 PM SLT.

image.thumb.png.f959677062c9e37a1631901456194003.png

Based on the map, I came to the conclusion that only the finished regions have received their name.
And as a Dutch person, I am now very much obsessed with the region called Buitenwijk, which means "suburb" in Dutch.

Edited by Fritigern Gothly
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while it maybe moving in the right direction i am very disappointed that new linden homes are connecting to a continent which is a renown combat area. Since the emphasis seems to be on water and sailing why was the connection not between Sansara and nautilus?  Nautilus that has the highest sail able waters while Sansara has the most places of interest to sail too? So while this looks good and the idea is sound i for one wont be moving into a linden home on this continent nor utilising this connection

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its certainly not the best area to sail,  the waters there are not exactly wide open. Let's hope there is a change to help with that. They could connect to the land North of there and there is plenty of area east. They could even move Gaeta 1 to the east side of it and increase the sailing area.. perhaps finish it off...  perhaps I'll win the lottery and get millions of dollars... gonna dream may as well dream big! 🤑

 

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39 minutes ago, Jdgirl1969 said:

while it maybe moving in the right direction i am very disappointed that new linden homes are connecting to a continent which is a renown combat area. Since the emphasis seems to be on water and sailing why was the connection not between Sansara and nautilus?  Nautilus that has the highest sail able waters while Sansara has the most places of interest to sail too? So while this looks good and the idea is sound i for one wont be moving into a linden home on this continent nor utilising this connection

It's not as if people who engage in SL combat are griefers, any more than people who play CoD go out and shoot people.   Even within the "combat area" of the Gulf, civilian vehicles are left alone, and those that don't leave them alone are considered griefers even by the local combatants, and often banned from their sims to prevent rezzing of aircraft there, and even abuse reported. 

I sail my steam-modded Mary Celeste and Bandit 60 in the Jeogeot Gulf often, just to relax.   Always wished it was bigger, though, and if a passable sea-connection is made between there and the new sea channel to Belliseria, I may well be getting my wish, in a rather extreme, dramatic, and awesome manner.

It's just a pity none of the connecting water sims seem to be rez-enabled.   While it could be fun for combat RP to have such places as interception points for moving fleets, it would also be nice to have a place to re-rez a sailboat should a border crossing go awry, as they are often wont to do. 

Perhaps even a strip of rez-enabled sims alongside the non-rez-enabled ones, the latter being set to no-object-entry... 

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3 hours ago, Fritigern Gothly said:

I don't want to make you feel bad, but

Patches face made me smile, he is a great person who engages with us a lot in world and in the forums. Like Grumpity he's a skilled product manager who works very hard for us residents. This project proves it.

I thought I would share that smile the discovery gave me, and hopefully lift people's day with some more joy in what is currently a sad world. 

Fritigern, it's not a race to be first, and a lot of people do repeat finds. I hope I find something one day that makes you smile too, even if it was mentioned by 100 people on 100 previous pages, the smile is always worth it.

All that said, if Blush was mortally offended that I repeated her find then I appologise to her for being so careless, tbh Blush is one of the many people I have always respected both as myself, and as my main.

Edited by Shudo
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Looking at some of the undeveloped grasslands made me wonder . . . could this continent be mixed development? I.e., part of it as Linden homes and part as regular old undeveloped land to purchase?

Also really hoping there will be more water space around the continent. As it is, there's no way a sailboat could pass it.

And, while I'm dreaming, maybe some restrictions on ban lines and security orbs? Would be great to have a continent that can actually be safely flown over.

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10 minutes ago, Female Winslet said:

Looking at some of the undeveloped grasslands made me wonder . . . could this continent be mixed development? I.e., part of it as Linden homes and part as regular old undeveloped land to purchase?

Also really hoping there will be more water space around the continent. As it is, there's no way a sailboat could pass it.

And, while I'm dreaming, maybe some restrictions on ban lines and security orbs? Would be great to have a continent that can actually be safely flown over.

The new covenant will, among others, state: "- Public space outside your parcel lines is just that… public space. Do not extend objects outside of your parcel in a way that will block, wall off, or “claim” public areas for yourself to the exclusion of other residents."
I would say that a poorly configured security system could "claim" these public areas for yourself because it would make them accessible only to you and to those that you have given permission to access those areas.
Other than that, there seem to be no special provisions to safeguard air traffic.
 

See also the article below which contains the text of the covenant for Belliseria.

 

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1 hour ago, Fritigern Gothly said:

The new covenant will, among others, state: "- Public space outside your parcel lines is just that… public space. Do not extend objects outside of your parcel in a way that will block, wall off, or “claim” public areas for yourself to the exclusion of other residents."
I would say that a poorly configured security system could "claim" these public areas for yourself because it would make them accessible only to you and to those that you have given permission to access those areas.
Other than that, there seem to be no special provisions to safeguard air traffic.
 

Yes, I have seen the covenant. Unfortunately, this does not address the issue at all since it is just a restatement of current existing practice. Obviously, it is not possible for ban lines or security systems to eject people outside of the owner's parcel anyway. But the great thing is that the new continent has not opened yet, so this is a good time to discuss these things because LL can consider them and maybe make adjustments.

However, it ranges from difficult to impossible to control boats on the water and aircraft overhead to be controlled precisely enough to avoid clipping a property line, especially at sim crossings or when flying or sailing. So we have a situation now where someone builds on the ground and sets up a security orb with a three second warning. Then you fly by at 4000m and suddenly get ejected with no change to react. This situation ruins the airspace for everyone. Even people operating motor boats and driving on roads, both circumstances where precision control is more realistic, run into these problems.

Similar issues have been addressed in both RL and SL in the past.

In RL, the law was that property owners owned the land and everything above it. When aviation was developed, this meant that you could have a plane flying overhead and the airline could be liable for damages for trespass to every single person whose house they flew over. As you can probably imagine, that would have destroyed RL aviation industries before they got very far along at all. Can you imagine United Airlines flying around at 37,000 feet and having to pay every property owner they overfly for trespassing in the airspace above their land? That was what the law required. So Congress passed a law so that property ownership of airspace only went up so high above the ground. This allowed aviation industry to develop. 

In SL, banlines were not previously height limited. So you could fly along at 4000m altitude and suddenly hit somebody's ban line with no warning. This made aviation nearly impossible. LL addressed it by limiting the altitude of ban lines. Now, if you set them up, they don't affect anyone above roughly 200 meters altitude. And honestly, they make nifty trampolines to bounce on.

But people use security orbs now. They do not have the altitude restrictions and they frequently give little or no warning. So the same problem repeats itself that existed with ban lines before they were altitude limited. 

There are several ways that LL could address this. (1) Limit the power of security orbs to eject people to a certain altitude, most likely by limiting the ability of avatars to eject since the power of the security orb is derived from the permissions of the avatar. (2) Require all security orbs to provide a certain amount of warning. (3) Ban security orbs altogether.

I understand that option #3 is not likely to happen due to the number of people who find that one of their favorite things about property ownership is to just keep other people out because "mine mine mine mine mine so I get to keep everybody out so there!" But the first two options seem very doable and it's hard to imagine something like one of those ideas won't happen eventually. A new continent could be a good opportunity to experiment, try things out, and figure out what works best.

 

 

 

Edited by Female Winslet
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I hope the Lindens are reading all the comments here and get some ideas on how to make things easier for sailors and aviators. I suggest they add more protected water sims around Sansara so we could reach places like Bay City, or East River by boat from the south.

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At the opening of the demos for the new LL homes, Patch mentioned that there will be as many as 4k regions.   The one currently being laid out if it will be identical to the SSP model, falls below 400 regions.  My guess is we are just seeing the opening salvo of a bigger plan.

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6 hours ago, AbbyFraser said:

I hope the Lindens are reading all the comments here and get some ideas on how to make things easier for sailors and aviators. I suggest they add more protected water sims around Sansara so we could reach places like Bay City, or East River by boat from the south.

Comments about sailing features and connecting continents would probably be better served in one of the other threads about just that - connecting the continents. This one is about SSP and the new Linden homes. Not meaning you can't post here but that it's probably going to have a better audience in the other thread. :) 

 

 

Edited by Blush Bravin
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10 hours ago, Female Winslet said:

But people use security orbs now. They do not have the altitude restrictions and they frequently give little or no warning. So the same problem repeats itself that existed with ban lines before they were altitude limited. 

There are several ways that LL could address this. (1) Limit the power of security orbs to eject people to a certain altitude, most likely by limiting the ability of avatars to eject since the power of the security orb is derived from the permissions of the avatar. (2) Require all security orbs to provide a certain amount of warning. (3) Ban security orbs altogether.

 

I fully understand the frustration with security orbs. I recently took up sailing and on Nautilus there is this single, tiny channel of unprotected land that connects Starfish Lake with the ocean, and the owner of that land has this security orb which ejects non-group members after 60 seconds. Very frustrating, because I like to sail dead slow near land, and this orb basically forces me to increase my speed in a narrow channel beyond what is a proper speed, and I have lagged into other parcels before, lost control of my boat, etc.
Had there been an alternative route, I would gladly take it, but this is it.
I guess I am lucky that the timeout is not 10 seconds, but still.
 

10 hours ago, Female Winslet said:

I understand that option #3 is not likely to happen due to the number of people who find that one of their favorite things about property ownership is to just keep other people out because "mine mine mine mine mine so I get to keep everybody out so there!" 

 

I am one of the people that restricts access to my parcel but there are other reasons that selfishness. LIke in the past I have had lots of issues with assholes popping into my house and not even asking, but demanding sex (I don't do pixel sex, but even if I did it would be an incredibly rude thing to do). And then there's the scripting that I do, I don't like having an audience when I am trying to figure out a scripting problem or am performing a bit of an experiment, I find it highly distracting. However, I have had issues with total strangers teleporting into my "lab" and trying to strike up a conversation or wanting sex (or both).
So you see, it's not just a "mine!" kind of thing, there are other reasons why someone could have a security orb or ban lines.

However, I do agree that these orbs should not extend their scan range above a certain height or outside the parcel (something which still happens, especially with older security systems) and I too would like to see a solution to this problem. Being able to put up ban lines helps, and being able to be invisible by people outside the parcel definitely helps a lot. But as you said, above 200m these ban lines cease.

There may be a ray of hope for aviators in the covenant's rule that skyboxes are only allowed above 2000m, this implicitly would leave aviators with altitudes between 201 m above terrain height, and 1900 m (to allow for a 92m scan range of security orbs, and change), as well as any altitude above 4200m (4096 of max build height, plus max scan range).

It's not ideal, but it would be something... If everyone sticks to the "no skyboxes below 2000m" rule, of course.

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