SSP?

[CarlaWetter]

On 5/30/2022 at 10:25 AM, SarahKB7 Koskinen said:

The official SL map website seems to be broken.

None of the region names are being shown when they're clicked.

Searching for regions by name also not working.

The official Map API fails as well, we filed a jira

https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-232201

[Dyna Mole]

6 hours ago, Teresa Firelight said:

how many regions is it now? (and yea I know it is still growing beyond that....)

Roughly 1800, depending on how you count them and on whether it's before or after lunchtime, when the deco crews take a break.

[Leora Greenwood]

1 hour ago, Dyna Mole said:

Roughly 1800, depending on how you count them and on whether it's before or after lunchtime, when the deco crews take a break.

Wow...  just...  WOW!!!

[SarahKB7 Koskinen]

Another new railway station has been added to Newbrooke, at SSPSome Pig.

[Persephone Emerald]

6 hours ago, Dyna Mole said:

Roughly 1800, depending on how you count them and on whether it's before or after lunchtime, when the deco crews take a break.

Thanks for the estimate, Dyna!   🥰

 

This is a pretty good value for calculating how much revenue Bellisseria is worth to Linden Lab. The average number of homes on a region is around 20. We'd need a bunch of people counting how many of the homes in different regions are occupied to get a good estimate of what percentage of these homes are occupied, but in my region it's close to 90%. Undeveloped regions are obviously going to be empty, but there are many more developed ones.

If we assume 3 quarters of the Linden homes are occupied by people who are paying for Premium subscriptions:

1800 x 20 x .75 x $100/ year = $ 2,700,000 /year or $ 225, 000/ month

 

This is only looking at the revenue for Bellisseria. It does not take into account people who have private islands, estates, older Linden Homes or mainland.

 

[SarahKB7 Koskinen]

The total has to be way more than 1800, the SSP numbers already go as high as SSPE2783 in Fantasseria.

And way up north in the Mole SSP regions, the numbers go as high as SSP3535.

Edited May 31, 2022 by SarahKB7 Koskinen

[Dyna Mole]

14 minutes ago, SarahKB7 Koskinen said:

The total has to be way more than 1800, the SSP numbers already go as high as SSPE2783 in Fantasseria.

There's no rule to say that the numbers have to be sequential.  😉

[Nika Talaj]

2 hours ago, Persephone Emerald said:

If we assume 3 quarters of the Linden homes are occupied by people who are paying for Premium subscriptions:

1800 x 20 x .75 x $100/ year = $ 2,700,000 /year or $ 225, 000/ month

You're not accounting for stipends, which even in such a rough calculation are significant (they bump the $99 yearly premium fee down to $36.60).  Assuming an exchange rate of $L250/USD and everyone paying premium yearly:

1800*20*0.75*(99 - [300*52/250]) = $988,200/year or $82,350/mo.

One COULD crawl over the grid shepherd's numbers and come up with some sort of estimate of revenue from estates, mainland, and older Linden Homes, but some sweeping assumptions would have to be made.  And we have no idea of income from fees, or of course of costs, so it's hard to judge the significance of Belli's contribution.

[Trinity Blakewell]

I think Nika is right...it's difficult to calculate the total significance of Belli. Of course, the overall value of Linden Homes is not simply related to the income from premium members. Active Linden Home residents are likely buying a good amount of  home furnishings. SL gets a direct cut on the marketplace (am I correct about that?). Then there's the various fees associated with exchange rates, tier for those stores on the mainland, etc. It's kind of similar to taxes in the non-virtual world, if the economy is doing well, the government gets more revenue.

I suspect that many of us would not have virtual residences if it were not for Linden Homes. I for one bounced back and forth between renting parcels and being homeless.

[Mollymews]

On 5/29/2022 at 5:38 AM, Abnor Mole said:

i have a M please

i woumd Mike to somve the puzzme

just have to know what a puzzme is and what happens when somevee it, and why Mike would be woumd by it

which not many people know, but it's obvious when think about it

😸

[diamond Marchant]

20 hours ago, Trinity1776 said:

it's difficult to calculate the total significance of Belli

Here is a theory. Bellisseria addresses the "churn problem", which is people trying SL for 10 minutes and never coming back. One of the fundamental issues of SL is "barrier to entry". Prior to Bellisseria, it was kinda difficult for a noob to learn enough to start investing in permanence (e.g. buying or renting land and having a home). Now (6/1/2022) the experience is... you go to the Blue Fairy page (you do not leave in horror),  scroll down and get impressed either by the destination guide, the prospect of remote meetings, or shopping... and you signup. Then you see the your dashboard and in the upper right it says "Get Your Home Now". You select one and it mentions you need to pay, so you do, then you get a TP button and presto.... you just arrived and already you have a house in spite of the fact that you may not  be able to walk straight.

No clue as to if this fixes the churn.

Edited June 1, 2022 by diamond Marchant
jokes added

[Love Zhaoying]

17 minutes ago, diamond Marchant said:

you go to the Blue Fairy page (you do not leave in horror)

Dunno why, but the Blue Fairy to me looked like..something from Avatar..oh, I see.

[Love Zhaoying]

16 hours ago, Mollymews said:

i have a M please

i woumd Mike to somve the puzzme

just have to know what a puzzme is and what happens when somevee it, and why Mike would be woumd by it

which not many people know, but it's obvious when think about it

😸

I am woumded by this post, seriously woumded.  

[Paulsian]

In world checking out the progress goodies, I love this combo. I have my settings low for performance looking good. I loved seeing the pines with the chalet side woodsey lake vibes. 

 

 

[Polenth Yue]

3 hours ago, diamond Marchant said:

Here is a theory. Bellisseria addresses the "churn problem", which is people trying SL for 10 minutes and never coming back. One of the fundamental issues of SL is "barrier to entry". Prior to Bellisseria, it was kinda difficult for a noob to learn enough to start investing in permanence (e.g. buying or renting land and having a home). Now (6/1/2022) the experience is... you go to the Blue Fairy page (you do not leave in horror),  scroll down and get impressed either by the destination guide, the prospect of remote meetings, or shopping... and you signup. Then you see the your dashboard and in the upper right it says "Get Your Home Now". You select one and it mentions you need to pay, so you do, then you get a TP button and presto.... you just arrived and already you have a house in spite of the fact that you may not  be able to walk straight.

No clue as to if this fixes the churn.

I've seen a number of new people describing basically this. They realise they need a house, they see they can click and get a house, the money doesn't seem bad... now you have a few days old account with a premium subscription and an increasing collection of furniture. I can see how this would have made my early Second Life a lot easier.

There are still other areas that need work, but the housing side does look to be working as intended.

[SarahKB7 Koskinen]

SL map website still broken....

[Marianne Little]

On 6/1/2022 at 1:03 AM, Nika Talaj said:

You're not accounting for stipends, which even in such a rough calculation are significant (they bump the $99 yearly premium fee down to $36.60).  Assuming an exchange rate of $L250/USD and everyone paying premium yearly:

1800*20*0.75*(99 - [300*52/250]) = $988,200/year or $82,350/mo.

One COULD crawl over the grid shepherd's numbers and come up with some sort of estimate of revenue from estates, mainland, and older Linden Homes, but some sweeping assumptions would have to be made.  And we have no idea of income from fees, or of course of costs, so it's hard to judge the significance of Belli's contribution.

Can you or someone tell me why the stipend is a loss for LL?

I understand that people can save up all and withdraw them for real money.

But who in SL does that? 0.05% of the Premium population?

I mean that it is likely that the 300 L is acting like a "gateway" to spending more. And this way LL get more people that buy L than they would without the stipend.

Sorry is this is worded poorly. I hope you (all) understand the meaning.

 

[Matthieu Quander]

6 minutes ago, Marianne Little said:

Can you or someone tell me why the stipend is a loss for LL?

I understand that people can save up all and withdraw them for real money.

But who in SL does that? 0.05% of the Premium population?

I mean that it is likely that the 300 L is acting like a "gateway" to spending more. And this way LL get more people that buy L than they would without the stipend.

Sorry is this is worded poorly. I hope you (all) understand the meaning.

 

I agree with you.  The stipend is not a loss for LL, it is a moneymaker.  As you noted, it goes beyond the fact that most premium account holders are unlikely to cash in the L$ for RL funds. 

I further agree that for many of us, the stipend provided an introduction to the SL economy, which eventually led to additional recurring L$ purchases.  While some might be content to limit their SL spending to what the stipend provides, I suspect most premium account holders buy additional L$.   

I think the assumption is that people would buy the equivalent $L received if there were no stipend, so that is potential revenue lost.  While that might be true for some, it isn't true for everyone.  This assumption also doesn't consider how many would cancel their premium accounts if there were no stipend, as it would be much less of a bargain.  

When you break it all down, the stipend is essentially a prepurchase of L$, which stimulates the SL economy, which in turn generates more revenue for LL, not less.  

 

[Blush Bravin]

1 hour ago, Marianne Little said:

Can you or someone tell me why the stipend is a loss for LL?

I understand that people can save up all and withdraw them for real money.

But who in SL does that? 0.05% of the Premium population?

I mean that it is likely that the 300 L is acting like a "gateway" to spending more. And this way LL get more people that buy L than they would without the stipend.

Sorry is this is worded poorly. I hope you (all) understand the meaning.

 

At one time I had four premium accounts. Two of those accounts were never logged on except to receive the additional lindens from my Blush account to add to the lindens they had received over the year from the stipend. I then cashed out all those lindens to renew the premium account for the year. So I can say I AM one of those who faithfully saved my stipend. Now, Debi and Blush never save a stipend as they love shopping too much. But if money were tight for me, then I would save theirs to pay for the next year.

I think it's not necessarily common for people to save their stipend but it does happen. I doubt the number who do is so low to be 0.05%. And even for those who spend their stipends, like Blush and Debi, the merchants who receive those funds are surely cashing out those lindens. Does it really matter to LL's bottom line if I'm the one cashing out those lindens or if it's a merchant cashing out the lindens I spent in their store?

I don't see the stipend as being a gateway to buying more lindens. I think people who regularly spend money buying lindens do so with little regard to receiving that stipend weekly.

So it is ultimately a loss for LL in any case.

[Persephone Emerald]

7 hours ago, Marianne Little said:

Can you or someone tell me why the stipend is a loss for LL?

I understand that people can save up all and withdraw them for real money.

But who in SL does that? 0.05% of the Premium population?

I mean that it is likely that the 300 L is acting like a "gateway" to spending more. And this way LL get more people that buy L than they would without the stipend.

Sorry is this is worded poorly. I hope you (all) understand the meaning.

 

I don't think the stipend is a loss for LL. At most it's the loss of the fees they'd collect for the same amount of linden dollars being purchased by the user over that same year. The fees are relatively small, but they add up over a year of individual linden purchases. The premium user is essentially making a bulk purchase when they pay for their subscription, but either way most of that money goes back into the SL economy. It's sort of like LL putting money into R&D, advertising or customer support. It's an investment in keeping the customer happy with the product so they'll keep spending more money on it. It's also cheaper for LL to give the customer one bulk buy, rather than encouraging multiple buys, because there are fewer exchange transactions for Tilia to manage.

I don't think I need to argue that Linden Lab benefits by Second Life having a thriving economy, do I? The expectation that creators could take out more money than they put into SL is what keeps many of them creating fresh content. Without this constant content creation driving users to pay for virtual land and purchase more linden dollar than most of them take out, SL would be dead. No one would be making any money from it, neither it's users nor Linden Lab.

[Blush Bravin]

I'm thinking the way I use the term loss and the way others here have used it does not necessarily end up being the same usage. I think of the stipend as a business expense, or loss, so when doing the monthly accounting the stipends go in the red column while the premium fees go in the green column. All advertising expenses would also go into that red column. It's a business expense. There's a saying, "You have to spend money to make money." So the expense is worthwhile but it's still and expense and not income. Does advertising lead to more income? Possibly, hopefully yes! 

Since this question came up because of some calculations done in another post, I was thinking that the term loss referred to an expense against profits rather than just being a smart business practice.

[Marisa Starbrook]

22 hours ago, Polenth Yue said:

I've seen a number of new people describing basically this. They realise they need a house, they see they can click and get a house, the money doesn't seem bad... now you have a few days old account with a premium subscription and an increasing collection of furniture. I can see how this would have made my early Second Life a lot easier.

There are still other areas that need work, but the housing side does look to be working as intended.

I remember my early days (over 15 years ago--yikes!) where I rented homes on the Mainland before there were private estate rentals, then eventually paid $90 USD to "own" my own rental island, then eventually went premium to acquire a Linden home, and counted my lucky stars that my landlord  had never disappeared without warning like what happened to some of my friends. I liked the crazy Wild West feeling of SL back in 2006! I wave my cane at the young whippersnappers that complain today about the lack of free mesh bento heads. You don't know what it was like to wear flexi hair, prim skirts, and pay for no copy items that disappeared into the SL inventory void. As my father used to say to me and my siblings "ungrateful wretches!" 

[Prokofy Neva]

On 5/31/2022 at 6:13 AM, SarahKB7 Koskinen said:

One possibility for Loglands northern coast is the continuation of a little-known short stretch of Stilt Homes that are actually located on the extreme northeast tip of the Logland continent.

These rather special Stilt Homes are built on an extended coastal plain found at the bottom of the cliffs on northeast Logland.

These coastal plains have the standard 20m coastal water table, while the cliffs behind them exist to disguise the higher 49m water table found behind them in the Log Homes regions, because they contain a network of inland high water lakes. 

TP to Lost Caves and take a look.

A map of the current NE Logland regions, showing their relative water table heights. The 20m coastal regions only extend as far west as Lost Caves.

 

Adding more coastal regions (with 20m water) to the west of Lost Caves of Logland for more coastal plains for Stilts and space to give Logland more cliff edges to hide their higher water table.

 

And it provides a shorter, and quicker northern boat route between Bellisseria's Traditionals, Stilts and Chalets, without that lengthy voyage around southern and eastern Logland.  😜 

Rather special indeed!

[Prokofy Neva]

On 5/31/2022 at 4:46 PM, Persephone Emerald said:

Thanks for the estimate, Dyna!   🥰

 

This is a pretty good value for calculating how much revenue Bellisseria is worth to Linden Lab. The average number of homes on a region is around 20. We'd need a bunch of people counting how many of the homes in different regions are occupied to get a good estimate of what percentage of these homes are occupied, but in my region it's close to 90%. Undeveloped regions are obviously going to be empty, but there are many more developed ones.

If we assume 3 quarters of the Linden homes are occupied by people who are paying for Premium subscriptions:

1800 x 20 x .75 x $100/ year = $ 2,700,000 /year or $ 225, 000/ month

 

This is only looking at the revenue for Bellisseria. It does not take into account people who have private islands, estates, older Linden Homes or mainland.

 

I think to be more accurate you need to decide a sample size of regions, say, 180 or 10% of the estimate. And see how many houses on each of those 180 regions are actually occupied, that is, they don't have to show furniture or activity, but they have to show an owner and not LL as the owner. So I will see if I can find time to do that. Or maybe somebody with bots can do it or whatever. But I don't think you can just go by your region alone. I have let's see 6? 7? houses (I seem to have cancelled some) and some of the sims where they are, are starkly empty and some full.

[Sylvia Tamalyn]

Apologies if this has been discussed and I am not seeing it, but what are these white specks on the map? Does the mountain have dandruff now?