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Garnet Psaltery

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That's a LOT of homes.  And if what Patch said in Belli chat has been correctly reported ... that it will be on the order of a week between the introduction of the new theme, and being able to GET homes of the new theme ...  then I guess a significant portion of this "Southern Addition" may be released before the end of December????

Last time I toured the new areas currently being worked on in Belli, all hovertext I saw said either Traditional, Trailer or Houseboat.  So it seems reasonable to assume that the new theme will be imported, as is, from SSP (or other workspace).  Wow.

/me glances at Patch's flickr page.   Nothing yet, probably nothing until after the Expo opens?

Edited by Nika Talaj
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7 hours ago, Nika Talaj said:

That's a LOT of homes.  And if what Patch said in Belli chat has been correctly reported ... that it will be on the order of a week between the introduction of the new theme, and being able to GET homes of the new theme ...  then I guess a significant portion of this "Southern Addition" may be released before the end of December????

Last time I toured the new areas currently being worked on in Belli, all hovertext I saw said either Traditional, Trailer or Houseboat.  So it seems reasonable to assume that the new theme will be imported, as is, from SSP (or other workspace).  Wow.

/me glances at Patch's flickr page.   Nothing yet, probably nothing until after the Expo opens?

Really, I thought nothing sooner than January... They really speed up as they go.

Is it just me, or does it look a bit... crowded? I am spoiled with good locations now. I am very ready for a new type of houses, so if I end up inland, I may have to take it. Hmmm. I am very exited to see the new theme, and do you think we are allowed to walk/fly in the new regions before the release?

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20 Nov 2019 a closer look at the new extension regions map.

Looking at the region borders it is obvious that the regions don't join smoothly and naturally with each other. This is going on all over the new extension regions. They cannot release the regions in the state how the map show them now. Apparently there will still be a lot of work with the regions borders.

2019-11-21_SSP-Extention_region-borders.thumb.jpg.9182ee44f4e408230949b9376c961c7d.jpg

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42 minutes ago, Raspberry Crystal said:

I was thinking it a bit odd that they would switch to cloned regions. I wonder if this is a ruse to keep us surprise when they actually release?

We can just wait and see. But LL is a business, they depend on paying customers. If they see the numbers of Premium go down they might have reconsidered that. We also have to answer questions when we downgrade to Basic. If they see that the reason is "No new Linden home", they are forced to do something.

Just speculation from my side.

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I wouldn't assume that the cloned regions need any kind of "fixing" based on what you see on the world map. The way the snapshots of the world map are taken, even regions in Bellisseria now do not look like they are joined properly when your scrutinize the world map that closely. This is most notable when there are trees or other mesh objects right on the region border.

If you want and example of what I am talking about - look on the map at the region border between Shanty and Coldwater Cay. Up close, with the exception of the roads, they don't match at all - yet go there and look around and you'll see they are just fine.

I find it hard to believe that LL would go to all the trouble to slot all those regions in together like that on the SSP continent, only to then do it another way in a month or two when they actually place them in Bellisseria. My gut feeling is that they are staying just like they are. 

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2 hours ago, Raspberry Crystal said:

I was thinking it a bit odd that they would switch to cloned regions. I wonder if this is a ruse to keep us surprise when they actually release?

 

1 hour ago, Marianne Little said:

We can just wait and see. But LL is a business, they depend on paying customers. If they see the numbers of Premium go down they might have reconsidered that. We also have to answer questions when we downgrade to Basic. If they see that the reason is "No new Linden home", they are forced to do something.

Just speculation from my side.

This.

I do see that the BelliSeLRR is branching off to a new line. It could just be a loop, though not sure. 🤞

Snapshot SSPE315-Protected Land-20191121_001

 

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4 hours ago, Marianne Little said:

We can just wait and see. But LL is a business, they depend on paying customers. If they see the numbers of Premium go down they might have reconsidered that. We also have to answer questions when we downgrade to Basic. If they see that the reason is "No new Linden home", they are forced to do something.

Yes, considering the constant demand for the new homes it would make sense for them to try and get the homes finished ASAP, so if that means a bit of cloning I don't blame them. My guess is that the intention was to develop the regions as they have been doing this year, but people are more eager to get a home than was maybe anticipated, so to satisfy that they've modified their plan. Would be the sensible thing to do I think. I don't think anyone is really going to care that much if a few regions look the same or similar if it means they can get a home soon...

I'm wondering if they'll do one massive release of that whole section in the south in one or two days. That would be great for a large number of those without a new home as it'll mean they stand a good chance of getting one instead of having to try 2 or 3 times a week refreshing and hoping. Since it looks like it's virtually finished I can't see why they wouldn't unless there some logistical reason we're not aware of. I'm putting my bets on a January release (preview at Expo in December, then Christmas break, then release after New Year). It might even mean there will be a few spare homes for a bit! Depends of course on how many Premium members there are currently actively waiting for a home (or aware of new homes...there's bound to be some who don't visit the forums or haven't logged in for a while who don't even know about them yet).

 

Edited by Evangeline Arcadia
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I personally don't like the idea of cloned regions, but having thought about it more, I don't see it as much of an issue.

Firstly, you really only notice it by looking at the world map, and not many people wander round SL with that open all the time. From street level it would be much harder to tell that the regions are clones.

Secondly, there will be a level of uniqueness added  when you factor in the home / colour options, more so once creators make the inevitable add-ons.

Thirdly, and I hate to say this, but the majority of Bellisserians aren't really out there exploring anyway, certainly not any kind of large scale continent-wide exploring at any rate. This is demonstrated most notably  in two ways: 1) People post images of "new" finds in Belli that have actually been around for several weeks, and 2) People still teleport to events in Belli, therefore only seeing their home region and the region the event is in.

Most likely, it's the few daily continent travellers that will enter a region then have a deja vu moment.. wait, wasn't I here like 5 minutes ago? 🤔

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Do you remember when the Belli  test continent filled up with clone regions in the middle? I think this is some sort of load testing going on. So either we are due for a continuation of the current release strategy, or there's a bunch of victorians ready to go on another grid. This way the techies and landscapers don't need to wait around for each other. 

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I can understand why people are hoping this is all some plot and there will be a special surprise of non-cloned regions for release... but it really doesn't look like that. Since putting it in, they removed the cloned railway markers (which didn't join up) and have added in some that look like a proper route. There have also been dots moving around on the regions as though they're working, which suggests final tweaking rather than anything else.

My main hope is this will be a once only thing. They'll get ahead a bit and then go back to unique regions. We lose things with cloning, even if people don't notice it's happening. Inland waterways are an example, because you can't have a river with this sort of cloning pattern. That also contributes to why it looks crowded, because it lacks the things breaking it up like mountains and rivers.

I'd like to be wrong, but the simplest explanation is this is what the regions will be. Not that they made special fake maps or are building the real regions somewhere else.

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11 hours ago, Polenth Yue said:

I can understand why people are hoping this is all some plot and there will be a special surprise of non-cloned regions for release... but it really doesn't look like that. Since putting it in, they removed the cloned railway markers (which didn't join up) and have added in some that look like a proper route. There have also been dots moving around on the regions as though they're working, which suggests final tweaking rather than anything else.

My main hope is this will be a once only thing. They'll get ahead a bit and then go back to unique regions. We lose things with cloning, even if people don't notice it's happening. Inland waterways are an example, because you can't have a river with this sort of cloning pattern. That also contributes to why it looks crowded, because it lacks the things breaking it up like mountains and rivers.

I'd like to be wrong, but the simplest explanation is this is what the regions will be. Not that they made special fake maps or are building the real regions somewhere else.

It is much to big for this to be other than permanent regions, and since the work continues, it is clearly there to stay. I can't say anything wrong about it, people need more houses, and many has asked for LL to work faster and clone regions.

It is a damned if you do, damned if you don't. If people downgrade bc that can't get premium houses, that's a problem that needs to be solved. I could wish they did it less obvious and maybe made a waterway through it first with a small mountain, and then spread out the regions. So it does not look stenciled.

But it is what it is, and a good thing is that they added many small lakes and ponds to fresh it up. Many like to look at water. It is soothing and pretty.

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I have absolutely nothing wrong with them cloning. Chances are on the ground, you won't notice it anyway. As Marianne said, it is an effective way to speed things up, so I really cannot blame them. We may get some later regions that aren't cloned, but I think for this first upcoming release of the new theme, they went this route.

Heaven knows we're gonna get a new rush of people after these things on top of likely copious amounts of people abandoning currents for them.

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I'm not convinced that the cloning is staying. The regions don't match up as they are and it will be very obvious at ground level that landscapes had been copied. The amount of work to adapt them so they look different would be more than starting from scratch. Cloned road plans / plot placements, that does makes sense, the whole thing, no it doesn't fit with the ethos so  far.

Anyway, we need to wait and see, this is all guesswork!

 

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25 minutes ago, Marianne Little said:

I can't see LL have time for playing games in such a big scale, with the Christmas Expo and a new theme coming up. But I agree, we have to wait and see.

This.

I think what we see now is what we'll get, no time to change things up in any significant way. The truth is that most people on the ground will not care as they will see whatever is in view distance of their bubble. Even the old original LL Homes looked just fine from ground level, albeit not as pretty.

As was said before: @Patch Linden and Moles are "damned if they do and damned if they don't" and I empathize with them when people in these forums turn absolutely hostile with vitriolic comments toward Linden Lab and the rest for "Charging without providing what is paid for..." and nonsense like that. They are human and you know that stuff stings hard - it really hurts. I've felt that sting myself and for comments that don't even come anywhere near as hostile as what they face. I cannot imagine how they are able bite their tongue and lot lash out, even in a tactful way. 

They not only don't deserve that, but surely should be praised and saluted for their continuous upbeat manner and positive attitudes in the face of all that hate, genuine or not.

The charity thread that Patch locked and pinned, proclaiming for visibility, not only of the announcement, but also to show those hostile comments for who they are was, to me, a welcomed scolding from Patch. Let's call it the straw that broke the camels back. I say go, go, Patch!

With all this in mind, templating and cloning is surely the last resort, and it's come down to that. Patch and Moles are dealing with a massive undertaking and the sheer number of individual "lots" and everything going into building them and surrounds requires speed and efficiency.

Put yourselves into their shoes and read all the amazingly-negative comments about how slow the process is then think: What would and should you do about that?

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1 hour ago, Alyona Su said:

The charity thread that Patch locked and pinned, proclaiming for visibility, not only of the announcement, but also to show those hostile comments for who they are was, to me, a welcomed scolding from Patch. Let's call it the straw that broke the camels back. I say go, go, Patch!

I was surprised actually, at his reaction. It feel like a leap to construct a change of policy based on that though? There has been a huge amount of praise for the Belli project, both here on the forum and elsewhere. In fact I would say that the positives outweigh the negatives, but then everyone has their personal biases about how they see things, me included.

 

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40 minutes ago, Raspberry Crystal said:

In fact I would say that the positives outweigh the negatives,

I concur wholeheartedly! Though that still does not really(or, at most, only barely) mitigate the very painful sting of some of those minority comments, either.

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3 hours ago, Alyona Su said:

I empathize with them when people in these forums turn absolutely hostile with vitriolic comments toward Linden Lab and the rest for "Charging without providing what is paid for..." and nonsense like that. ....

With all this in mind, templating and cloning is surely the last resort, and it's come down to that. Patch and Moles are dealing with a massive undertaking and the sheer number of individual "lots" and everything going into building them and surrounds requires speed and efficiency.

Put yourselves into their shoes and read all the amazingly-negative comments about how slow the process is then think: What would and should you do about that?

I think the negative comments about scarcity of Belli properties have slowed down considerably.  LL (including Moles) have indeed been very patient with those gripes, and have the support of many vocal residents in quieting them.   Also, supply is a little closer to satisfying demand nowadays; Belli properties are sometimes seen on the land page for minutes at a time.

I haven't been following the cloning discussion very closely.  At this stage, this team has been at this task for quite a while.  With all due respect, I think there may be internal LL pressures such as budgets and/or team members being needed elsewhere that would have a lot more influence on the speed of buildout than some griping by malcontents :) 

I'm not all that concerned if LL uses some cloning, so long as it's not obvious on the ground, and there are still unique places to explore being built.  I AM concerned by the lack of waterways in the Southern Addition, and am hoping that they've come up with some scenic elements that are just as attractive.  For example, I've seen 1920's and Victorian roleplay regions where the cityscape, with varied alleys, urban neighborhoods, nooks and crannies, sewers, hidden gardens and public buildings provided mesmerizing views and fun opportunities for exploration.  We won't know until we see what they're intending, and we'll see pretty soon now!

3 hours ago, Alyona Su said:

The charity thread that Patch locked and pinned, proclaiming for visibility, not only of the announcement, but also to show those hostile comments for who they are was, to me, a welcomed scolding from Patch. Let's call it the straw that broke the camels back.

Patch was considerate enough to delete the hostile derail before he locked that thread.  I don't believe any of the objectionable posts remain.

I don't see that action as a general slapback to all nasty posters everywhere.  It would be horrifically embarrassing to invite an altrusitic partner to post on the corporate forums, in a community area that SUPPOSEDLY has a preponderance of LL supporters, and have such a negative derail happen.  This is the second time it has happened with the ACS; there was also bizarrely negative commentary on the thread about the awarded LH's in Calm Waves (Is that the right region?  you know what I mean).  To me, it seems like this recent incident hurt not only Patch's relationship with ACS, but also the reputation of the forums within LL.  That reputation has been generally foul for most of my time in SL.  The genial participation of LL and Mole-kind in the Linden Home forums has astonished me, frankly.  I think Prok voiced a similar reaction.  I now regret that I didn't post a rebuttal to the derail in the thread he locked, instead of just staying out of it, and attempting to explain away some of the negativity, given the history of ACS fundraising in SL.  Of course none of us can act as "forum police", but perhaps voicing objection to irrelevant and damaging negativity, particularly on threads started by forum 'guests' or LL employess, might help us preserve the special character of the Linden Home forums as a place where residents and LL/Moles actually INTERACT.

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