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How can you tell if any of your prims are outside your parcel?

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How can you tell if any of your prims are outside your parcel, even slightly? If they are, they're vulnerable to being returned.

There was an incident yesterday where a large store building suddenly disappeared. Looked like a griefing incident. It wasn't. The owners finally found the problem. They had a large rotating sign on top, part of the building, and during its slow rotation, it protruded into an adjacent parcel. A neighbor was doing some cleanup and accidentally returned the entire building.

Another common situation is when you have a big ground prim, and it goes right up to the parcel edge. In urban areas, each parcel often has a prim like that. You don't want a gap, so going right out to the edge is normal. Any way to check if it's outside the line?

 

 

 

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Careful use of marker prims and eyes ... or just not building right up the very edge of your land.

There is no button to highlight overhanging prims for you.

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2 hours ago, animats said:

[...] Another common situation is when you have a big ground prim, and it goes right up to the parcel edge. In urban areas, each parcel often has a prim like that. You don't want a gap, so going right out to the edge is normal. Any way to check if it's outside the line?

 

 

 

Build accurately to the exact measurement of the land.

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9 hours ago, Garnet Psaltery said:

Build accurately to the exact measurement of the land.

That may not be enough. One builder tells me that you can (sometimes?) return objects which are exactly on the edge of a parcel.

It's 32-bit floating point. There's roundoff error. A safety margin may be necessary. Someone with control over adjacent parcels of different ownership might want to test this and report back. Good project for a landlord.

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3 minutes ago, animats said:

That may not be enough. One builder tells me that you can (sometimes?) return objects which are exactly on the edge of a parcel.

It's 32-bit floating point. There's roundoff error. A safety margin may be necessary. Someone with control over adjacent parcels of different ownership might want to test this and report back. Good project for a landlord.

I'll test it - thanks for the warning.

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In your viewer, choose the WORLD menu, then SHOW and choose PROPERTY LINES. Now you can see all the boundaries. That way you can see where to drop prim boxes temporarily to demark your borders. 

Edit to add: I also don't intend to offend the intellect of the OP as I'm sure they know this. It is a general comment for any new users who read the thread. :)

Edited by Alyona Su

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On 8/12/2018 at 10:52 AM, Garnet Psaltery said:

(One builder tells me that you can (sometimes?) return objects which are exactly on the edge of a parcel.)

I'll test it - thanks for the warning.

Tried this yet?

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Whirley Fizzle found a relevant JIRA: OPEN-143. Thanks, WF. (The JIRA was misfiled under OPEN, and closed without a fix.)

The test for encroachment is apparently made using the axis-oriented bounding box of the physics model. For non-rectangular objects, that box will be bigger than the visible object. Sometimes much bigger. See the JIRA for pictures of examples.

Using the physics model is inevitable; that's all the simulator knows. The physics model is a union of convex hulls, so it's already been expanded from the actual object boundaries. Then an axis-oriented bounding box is wrapped around that, making it even bigger. Plus, the physics model for a mesh object can be manually generated and may be out of position. So you can't tell by looking at the visible object.

There should  be a tool for this. You can list all the objects on your parcel from the viewer, and it would help if the ones that are partly outside the parcel were flagged. Users should not have to understand the previous paragraph.

(I'm chasing this down because someone, in addition to the business mentioned above, had their building returned and they were very upset for days. I'm trying to figure out exactly what happened and keep it from happening again. It's starting to look like a technical problem, not griefing.)

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If you avoid building to the edge of your property, this is not difficult, lol. While there may be some issues with items sitting right on a property line, there won't be any issue with items that (including all bits and pieces, physics models, bounding boxes, etc...) are entirely within the boundaries of the land. That means AVOIDING going that close to the edge.

Anyone upset that their items get returned only has his/her self to blame for it. No one can return your item without land permissions allowing them to, without your item(even part of it) being on land it's not supposed to be on. I know how frustrating it can be at times, but it's really not rocket science, lol. You can quite easily stay within your boundaries when you pay attention to where they are and keep all items fully away from the edges, not ON the edge, even in the slightest. Stay just inside the borders with all bits and pieces, and you'll be fine. You should be able to see all the bits and pieces of your objects using the various tools and views available with the viewer(even parts you might not always be able to see normally)...but someone else can describe those parts better than I can right at this moment, lol. 

Why do you describe so many situations as griefing when it's really not? 

Keep your stuff on your land...problem solved. If it gets returned by someone, you'll know you went over and shouldn't do that again lol. 

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Got the party having problems to re-rez their prefab building while I watched. It first rezzes as a big ground prim, which you position where you want it. Then you give it the go command and the building assembles atop the ground prim. But the assembled building is bigger than its ground prim. The roof of the building has an overhang, reaching into the next parcel.

So when the neighbors cleared their parcel to prepare for a building project, the entire building disappeared, leading to much confusion and acrimony.

This was a bad job by the prefab builder. They provided an alignment guide prim and it was wrong. The end user used the alignment guide properly and still got into trouble.

Edited by animats

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56 minutes ago, animats said:

Got the party having problems to re-rez their prefab building while I watched. It first rezzes as a big ground prim, which you position where you want it. Then you give it the go command and the building assembles atop the ground prim. But the assembled building is bigger than its ground prim. The roof of the building has an overhang, reaching into the next parcel.

So when the neighbors cleared their parcel to prepare for a building project, the entire building disappeared, leading to much confusion and acrimony.

This was a bad job by the prefab builder. They provided an alignment guide prim and it was wrong. The end user used the alignment guide properly and still got into trouble.

Sometimes it's a bad job by the buyer for not checking the actual size of the item too, a lot of times the ground prim isn't quite the full size(width and length) of the actual build. That's not even remotely unusual. But if the dimensions for the item are listed as the size of the ground prim and NOT the actual dimensions, then yeah, bad job ont he part of the builder to inform.

Still, you should never have a building that comes even remotely close to the edge of your parcel if you want to avoid these issues. :) 

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On 8/13/2018 at 4:35 PM, animats said:

Whirley Fizzle found a relevant JIRA: OPEN-143. Thanks, WF. (The JIRA was misfiled under OPEN, and closed without a fix.)

The test for encroachment is apparently made using the axis-oriented bounding box of the physics model. For non-rectangular objects, that box will be bigger than the visible object. Sometimes much bigger. See the JIRA for pictures of examples.

Using the physics model is inevitable; that's all the simulator knows. The physics model is a union of convex hulls, so it's already been expanded from the actual object boundaries. Then an axis-oriented bounding box is wrapped around that, making it even bigger. Plus, the physics model for a mesh object can be manually generated and may be out of position. So you can't tell by looking at the visible object.

There should  be a tool for this. You can list all the objects on your parcel from the viewer, and it would help if the ones that are partly outside the parcel were flagged. Users should not have to understand the previous paragraph.

(I'm chasing this down because someone, in addition to the business mentioned above, had their building returned and they were very upset for days. I'm trying to figure out exactly what happened and keep it from happening again. It's starting to look like a technical problem, not griefing.)

All they have to do when they place a sculpted prim is click edit and stretch, that will show the limit of the bounding box, if its over the line, move it back.

If your bounding box is over my line, I'll return it, especially if I don't like your build.

On island estates for some reason, people love to put up 50 m high sculpted rock walls. Looking at it, they appear to be entirely on their property, but clicking edit and seeing the bounding box and.. oh my, it's a hair over the line.. return

 

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On 8/12/2018 at 1:42 AM, animats said:

How can you tell if any of your prims are outside your parcel, even slightly? If they are, they're vulnerable to being returned.

There was an incident yesterday where a large store building suddenly disappeared. Looked like a griefing incident. It wasn't. The owners finally found the problem. They had a large rotating sign on top, part of the building, and during its slow rotation, it protruded into an adjacent parcel. A neighbor was doing some cleanup and accidentally returned the entire building.

Another common situation is when you have a big ground prim, and it goes right up to the parcel edge. In urban areas, each parcel often has a prim like that. You don't want a gap, so going right out to the edge is normal. Any way to check if it's outside the line?

 

 

 

In Firestorm, my property line shows two colors, green on my side of the line, red on the outside of the line. If you stretch your ground prim so you can still see the green line slightly, you are inside your property line. If you entirely cover the green line you are right on the edge and might in fact be a hair over, in which case it's liable to be returned

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There is also an option in Firestorm that will basically show the outline of your parcel, via a light yellowish box I think, up to extreme heights.  This helps with the parcel boundaries when you are up high and accidentally edit your platform (that was originally positioned on the ground and then raised) and send it scooting off to one side such that it then creeps over your boundaries.

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