Why Are Nicks Allowed on the Forums?

[Blush Bravin]

1 hour ago, Phil Deakins said:

She wasn't saying that. She thought that nicknames were being used in the forum, and that they cannot be related to any avatar/account inworld. She was wrong. She may have incorrectly used the word 'nick' (nickname) when actually thinking of alts, but it doesn't make any difference, since there are no avatar names in the forum that can't be found inworld.

 

This is true; however, you are straining at a gnat and swallowing the fly. Look at the intent of her post,  the reason for her wanting them to have an in-world counterpart. 

"Yet nicks are used so that people who routinely harass others never have to face the consequences in the community, which might be property bans, shunning or boycotts, I suppose."

It doesn't matter that those accounts are actually in-world accounts, because those avatars are never used and therefore cannot have an in-world consequence. Truth is if someone does something so heinous as to deserve such a consequence, the Lindens have the means to do so and in my opinion are the only ones who should be applying consequences.

As to respect being something to be earned, I was taught that respect is given until someone looses it. Then respect must be earned as a consequence. I practice that all the time. Those who have lost my respect typically don't get any kind of response to one of their posts as it's simply not worth my time to respond or more than likely I never read their post/response in the first place because I simply skipped over them.

Edited August 11, 2018 by Blush Bravin
The second part is in response to Klytina. I've not figured out how to quote from two separate posts yet.

[Amanda Crisp]

On 8/10/2018 at 3:12 AM, CoffeeDujour said:

Those of us who post here under our primary SL identities are at a disadvantage to those forumites who hide behind an alt. Not that I would call the ability to be intentionally disruptive an advantage, but you get the point.

It pays to consider that not all of us who post and experience SL on an avatar that is not our original are not Hiding Behind an Alt for nefarious reasons. :-)

My original picked up and out-of-the-blue Stalker and made my SL absolute hell. LL was appealed to in multiple occasions for help, but was unable to provide any useful remediation.

So, my 2005 Avatar is essentially mothballed and my options were “make an alt” or leave SL.

Maybe a better objective would be for LL to develop -effective- anti-griefer/stalker tools, which could also serve to deal with weaponized alts.

[Blush Bravin]

4 minutes ago, AmandaKeen said:

It pays to consider that not all of us who post and experience SL on an avatar that is not our original are not Hiding Behind an Alt for nefarious reasons. :-)

My original picked up and out-of-the-blue Stalker and made my SL absolute hell. LL was appealed to in multiple occasions for help, but was unable to provide any useful remediation.

So, my 2005 Avatar is essentially mothballed and my options were “make an alt” or leave SL.

Maybe a better objective would be for LL to develop -effective- anti-griefer/stalker tools, which could also serve to deal with weaponized alts.

I've had a stalker for over eight years. I've found the best tool is to ignore them. I don't even ban him from my parcels anymore. He is muted. He's of no consequence. There is no way I would give up my account/avatar because of a stalker.

Edited August 11, 2018 by Blush Bravin

[Amanda Crisp]

23 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

I've had a stalker for over eight years. I've found the best tool is to ignore them. I don't even ban him from my parcels anymore. He is muted. He's of no consequence. There is no way I would give up my account/avatar because of a stalker.

That would depend on how many alts the Stalker was using, how much time they had to devote to Stalking activities, how much trouble they caused for SL friends of yours and their persistence in creating new stalker alts to keep their activity up despite the old ones being blocked.

SL seems to be hamstrung by its desire to be an Open Community, to the point that enforcement is generally ineffective where a determined psycho is involved.

[Blush Bravin]

3 minutes ago, AmandaKeen said:

That would depend on how many alts the Stalker was using, how much time they had to devote to Stalking activities, how much trouble they caused for SL friends of yours and their persistence in creating new stalker alts to keep their activity up despite the old ones being blocked.

SL seems to be hamstrung by its desire to be an Open Community, to the point that enforcement is generally ineffective where a determined psycho is involved.

I can identify with you, really. I gave up trying to keep track of all the alts. He found me at events and concerts, so much so in the beginning, that I gave up going. I filed AR after AR on him and his army of alts. Nothing helped until I started totally ignoring him. My friends also ignored him. Ignoring was the only thing that worked.

From time to time, maybe once a year in the past three years, he will show up in my security report as having been in my land. 

Edited August 11, 2018 by Blush Bravin

[Phil Deakins]

2 hours ago, Blush Bravin said:

As to respect being something to be earned, I was taught that respect is given until someone looses it. Then respect must be earned as a consequence. I practice that all the time. Those who have lost my respect typically don't get any kind of response to one of their posts as it's simply not worth my time to respond or more than likely I never read their post/response in the first place because I simply skipped over them.

I don't know where that came from, but I can tell you that the op lost all respect from me many years ago, and, since then, has continually confirmed that it was the right decision - including in this thread, I might add.

Unlike you, though, I sometimes do post good replies to those who I have no respect for. My first post in this thread was intended to be helpful, and is a good example. But look at her response to it.

[Blush Bravin]

2 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

I don't know where that came from, but I can tell you that the op lost all respect from me many years ago, and, since then, has continually confirmed that it was the right decision - including in this thread, I might add.

Unlike you, though, I sometimes do post good replies to those who I have no respect for. My first post in this thread was intended to be helpful, and is a good example. But look at her response to it.

Sorry, Phil. The respect comment came as a response to Klytina's comment. The edit note explains that but it's too small to read. I haven't figured out how to quote more than one person in a post.

[LittleMe Jewell]

19 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

I'm talking about simple GOOGLE

Hell, Google doesn't know about 90% of my alt accounts even though all but one has actually logged in multiple times. 

They can be searched inworld and their profiles will be found - all except the few that have tight security settings.  Those will not be found via the inworld websearch feature, thus they will not be found via the SL Viewer or the browser profiles page.

[LittleMe Jewell]

4 hours ago, AmandaKeen said:

It pays to consider that not all of us who post and experience SL on an avatar that is not our original are not Hiding Behind an Alt for nefarious reasons. :-)

My original picked up and out-of-the-blue Stalker and made my SL absolute hell. LL was appealed to in multiple occasions for help, but was unable to provide any useful remediation.

So, my 2005 Avatar is essentially mothballed and my options were “make an alt” or leave SL.

Maybe a better objective would be for LL to develop -effective- anti-griefer/stalker tools, which could also serve to deal with weaponized alts.

IMO, whatever account you primarily use in SL is your 'main' even if it wasn't your first account.  By true definition, Lil is an alt - not the first SL account created.  However, she has been the only account actually using SL for over a decade. My original main is really now just an alt that donates tier to my land group and L$ stipends to my shopping addiction.

[LittleMe Jewell]

1 hour ago, Blush Bravin said:

I haven't figured out how to quote more than one person in a post.

Click the plus sign next to the word 'quote'.  Do that for however many posts you want to quote, even across multiple pages.  The first time that you click the plus sign, the below will appear in the lower right corner, with the post count increasing each time you click another plus sign.  When you are done with all of your multi-quotes, click that button and all of the quotes will pop into the chat window.  You can then reply as desired to each.

 

You can also do a normal quote and type in a reply.  Then keep reading (without actually submitting that reply) and click quote again when you find something else to reply to.  If you change pages, it will 'seem' like your quotes and replies have disappeared, but the minute you click in the reply box again, everything that you haven't actually "entered" yet will still be there.  Then when you are done, click the 'Submit Reply' button as usual.

 

Edited August 11, 2018 by LittleMe Jewell

[Callum Meriman]

4 hours ago, Phil Deakins said:

I sometimes do post good replies to those who I have no respect for. My first post in this thread was intended to be helpful, and is a good example. But look at her response to it.

A lot of people do try to help her. Mostly they have their hands bitten.

[Prokofy Neva]

@Phil Deakins -- This is a pointless intervention -- my OP talked about no equivalent inworld but I also mentioned several times that IT COULD NOT BE FOUND IN GOOGLE, thereby begging the question there *was* an inworld avatar. Indeed I talked about search. I think this is just literalism in a lame effort to try to find something to pick up -- I wasn't mistaken at all.  The fact remains: there are accounts active on the forums that not only have no inworld equivalent visible in any search, in or out; they aren't found in Google, either *except* as a forums alt. The end. These are the facts, easily established. And it's not only about one obvious name.

Once again, I never said that nicks are used in the forum -- because there is no obvious and doable form of doing this on the forum sign-up -- derp. That is why I asked. Why are they allowed?  You can't come in and make a forums account only. So THAT IS WHY I ASKED. Again, why is this decoupling allowed? The Lindens should close that loophole. Why is the forums a separate account you log into separately? It should all be one seemless thing for one's avatar. And the point is not only to delve for some arcane technical reason for it, but to pose the larger moral question of why this is allowed because it LEADS TO BAD BEHAVIOUR.

@Coby Foden If there are no nicknames in the forums, once again, see above -- why no inworld equivalent? It doesn't seem possible, yet it is. Because there are no inworld profiles visible, nor are they visible on Google.

@Blush Bravin It's not about "exacting revenge," which is silly, as there isn't a practical way to do that. But it's about making people themselves responsible -- turn it around. Then if others wish to ban them or boycott them, that's normal and within the TOS. It's not about "disagreeing" -- it's about the persistent toxicity of certain posters endlessly sniping, harassing, and spreading viciousness without feeling any need to be answerable to a community. That matters.

@Klytyna Setting privacy settings doesn't lead to not showing up on Google. And you don't -- there is no my.secondlife.com Klytyna search result except for forums. Of course everyone's Google search can result differently, but anyone can try it:

https://www.google.com/search?client=opera&hs=fvk&ei=H7hvW5LTC8bH5gLuwJWYAQ&q=secondlife+klytyna&oq=secondlife+klytyna&gs_l=psy-ab.3..35i39k1.8372.8372.0.9266.1.1.0.0.0.0.113.113.0j1.1.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.1.112....0.rLTeT9-O5II

Oh, but there is if you know Russian and think to look there LOL:

https://my.secondlife.com/ru/klytyna
 

However, others are not findable.

Edited August 12, 2018 by Prokofy Neva

[Callum Meriman]

21 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

https://www.google.com/search?client=opera&hs=fvk&ei=H7hvW5LTC8bH5gLuwJWYAQ&q=secondlife+klytyna&oq=secondlife+klytyna&gs_l=psy-ab.3..35i39k1.8372.8372.0.9266.1.1.0.0.0.0.113.113.0j1.1.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.1.112....0.rLTeT9-O5II

However, others are not findable.

• They need to have posted on these new forums - not the previous incarnations
• They need to have been scraped by googlebot (which can take up to 90 days from their first post on the forums)
• Their profiles can not be marked adult (no RL porn)

Number 2 is hard to predict. Googlebot is a bit weird as a spider and will skip a page for months. One post people are unlikely to show up using that method.

What you can try - and likely have more luck with is http://my.secondlife/name.last (if it's a resident, leave the last off) as that bypasses the sometimes weird slowness behind googlebot's crawling.

So: https://my.secondlife.com/prokofy.neva or https://my.secondlife.com/patch.linden or https://my.secondlife.com/amandakeen

[Callum Meriman]

36 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

there is no my.secondlife.com Klytyna search result except for forums.

https://my.secondlife.com/klytyna

As to why no google, except russian... possibly flagged as an adult profile due to the photos. So, googlebot won't index it.

Edited August 12, 2018 by Callum Meriman

[Solar Legion]

It's been explained to you - repeatedly. You do not want to hear the answer given as it just has to-be wrong (all because you do not personally believe it).

No account posting on the forum exists without a matching Second Life account. Period.

That is Reality -deal with it. 

[Prokofy Neva]

51 minutes ago, Callum Meriman said:

• They need to have posted on these new forums - not the previous incarnations
• They need to have been scraped by googlebot (which can take up to 90 days from their first post on the forums)
• Their profiles can not be marked adult (no RL porn)

Number 2 is hard to predict. Googlebot is a bit weird as a spider and will skip a page for months. One post people are unlikely to show up using that method.

What you can try - and likely have more luck with is http://my.secondlife/name.last (if it's a resident, leave the last off) as that bypasses the sometimes weird slowness behind googlebot's crawling.

So: https://my.secondlife.com/prokofy.neva or https://my.secondlife.com/patch.linden or https://my.secondlife.com/amandakeen

Who cares? That's not the point. Techies knowing these things can hide better and live merely as a nick on the forums with no consequences. And the "weird slowness" would not be so slow as to allow years to go by.

And again, the technical details of how this is done or not done is NOT what is important. The Lindens should close off this loophole. It should all be one integrated system. 

[Paul Hexem]

"Anything I don't understand is a loophole!"

Why, that's Democrat talk! Learn. Adapt. Overcome. 

[Phil Deakins]

2 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

@Phil Deakins -- This is a pointless intervention -- my OP talked about no equivalent inworld but I also mentioned several times that IT COULD NOT BE FOUND IN GOOGLE

This is your op in its entirety:-

On 10/08/2018 at 3:05 AM, Prokofy Neva said:

This is one of the things that have long baffled me is why people can have names on the forums that do not correspond to an actual avatar inworld. It's not that people have let their old account lapse inworld and still chat on the forums; it's that names are used that have no equivalent inworld.

The Lindens themselves definitely link the world of the forums with the "inworld" of Second Life, and even hold over your head the threat that you will be banished from the world itself if your forum violations reach a certain level -- something quite a few merchants and landowners find appalling, and which makes some prudent ones who would have useful things to say like Desmond Shang announce that they simply won't post on the forums with that kind of risk.

Indeed, it is outrageous to make punishment for a speech crime the actual seizure of real property, even if it is virtual property, or a license to access the rendition of same, or however they phrase it -- it is still a valued good with monetary value.

Yet nicks are used so that people who routinely harass others never have to face the consequences in the community, which might be property bans, shunning or boycotts, I suppose.

If you want anonymity, you have it by making an SL avatar not tied to your RL identity in the first place, or another alt that is not tied. What's the deal?

What it means is that people have no responsibility in the community for their hateful and vicious statements, especially lifers on the forums who are expert at flying below the Lindens' radar, such as it is.

I think the Lindens should require that each forums user pick a real avatar name they have and have that be their sole voice on the forums.

Perhaps you could point to the bits in it where you mentioned several times that IT COULD NOT BE FOUND IN GOOGLE.

 

2 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Once again, I never said that nicks are used in the forum -- because there is no obvious and doable form of doing this on the forum sign-up -- derp. That is why I asked. Why are they allowed?

I refer you to both the title you gave to this thread, AND to the bit of your post that I've just quoted. If you didn't mean that nicks are allowed in the forum, why did you ask why they are allowed?

I'll put it all down to just another thread in which you make no sense at all - none that anyone can determine, anyway.

 

 

[Callum Meriman]

2 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Who cares? That's not the point. Techies knowing these things can hide better and live merely as a nick on the forums with no consequences. And the "weird slowness" would not be so slow as to allow years to go by.

And again, the technical details of how this is done or not done is NOT what is important. The Lindens should close off this loophole. It should all be one integrated system. 

How can the Lindens control what Google indexes? They are two seperate companies, they share no management, one isn't even listed on the stock exchange.

The way to get the profile is to do it manually, https://my.secondlife.com/first.last and not to rely on googlebot's scraping.

[Callum Meriman]

For those following this thread: As far as I can best work out, "a nick" is an avatar whose details have not been indexed by Google against "secondlife".

Kly is almost a nick, except for the page in Russian. Which means, she's most likely a techno-commie plant sent to destabilise the president with fake news! You go Girl!

Solar... you are a evil nick. EBIL!  
Phil... Not a nick
Phorumite's a.... well, she's also a nick
Coffee... You are a nick (and play with RLV, so likely blog fodder)
Animats is a nick, and already blogged about. EBIL!

 

Edited August 12, 2018 by Callum Meriman

[Klytyna]

6 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

@Klytyna Setting privacy settings doesn't lead to not showing up on Google. And you don't -- there is no my.secondlife.com Klytyna search result except for forums. Of course everyone's Google search can result differently, but anyone can try it:

So, you can't find my SL Web Profile on Google... Awww...

But you admit that it does exist..., you even post a link to it...

And that profile contains snapshots uploaded from INWORLD, so that proves this is a real account, an actual SL avatar, with purchased clothing hair, mesh body, etc...

See, theres this list of options as to WHO can see your web profile, and which parts of it. This included the option to set your web profile essentially private.

In Wold Legacy Profiles are on a different server system. They work differently.

So... THANK you for admitting you found my web feed, and the snapshots that prove it's an actual inworld account, after only a month or two since I posted the damn link in a reply to your previous attempt to claim I didn't exist.

As you can see, my profile is restricted to secondlife, so that kind of limits outside hits by search-bots.

Perhaps that explains why you believe your self surrounded by "LL Approved Techno-Commkie Griefer Alt Anti Google Search Ninjas"...

 

[Klytyna]

16 hours ago, Blush Bravin said:

I haven't figured out how to quote more than one person in a post.

Highlight the piece of their post you want to quote... A floaty "quote" button appears, click it...

TADA! The bit you highlighted is there, and you can comment about it...

Then you can highlight a different bit in a different post...

19 hours ago, Blush Bravin said:

As to respect being something to be earned, I was taught that respect is given until someone looses it.

You were taught wrong... TOLERANCE is given until it's lost.

As a confirmed non-believer in supernatural sky-daddies, for example, I have NO respect for professional sky-daddie pushers JUST because they wear their shirt collars back to front. I might TOLERATE them, providing they stay away from me, but respect? Never.

I don't auto-respect politicians either, most don't deserve any.

Respect isn't a right, it's earned. Many Americans seem to get this wrong, must be a cultural thing...

19 hours ago, Blush Bravin said:

Look at the intent of her post,  the reason for her wanting them to have an in-world counterpart.

"Yet nicks are used so that people who routinely harass others never have to face the consequences in the community, which might be property bans, shunning or boycotts, I suppose."

Posting history is important here... This is a person who stated in a thread last year that being a Slumlord for 12 years ENTITLED them not only ro respect, but to TRUST, Claimed that being in SL for 12 years means you are to be Auto-Trusted, more than somebody who's been here 12 months, or 12 weeks.

Also claimed that Old People, in RL are obviously MORE trustworthy than youngsters.

Bearing in mind some of the most cynical, twisted, and despotic characters in history have been older people...

That claim seems kind of dumb.

She basically feels that your "in world reputation", based on simply having an old account and a loNg running business, rather than on how you behave in-world to others, is more important than anything people might think of you here on the forum based on what you actually SAY.

Basically, she's pushing a typical Anarcho-Corporate-Capitalist line...

"Old and Rich = In Charge and Un-Arrestable"

Privilege - Derives from Latin... Private Law.

One must never doubt the word of or challenge the CEO of "Ruthless Rentals", nor shall they ever be punished for any crimes they might do, as if they do it, it's not a crime...

...

A while back there were threads where a certain party complained of the evils of squatters, and overprimmers and other SL-Criminal types.

Then they got reported for cantilevering their prims out over LLDPW owned roadway.

"Bah! How dare the LLDPW return my prims, they wern't in the way, just because I was covering 500 sqm of land I don't own doesn't make it a crime of squatting! LL Governance is a Stalinist Dictatorship I say!"

Maybe we need a linkage the other way... If you get AR'd for say squatting on LL land, and your stuff removed, they suspend your forum account too.

 

Edited August 12, 2018 by Klytyna
Say NO to Log Runners!

[Garnet Psaltery]

8 minutes ago, Klytyna said:

She basically feels that your "in world reputation", based on simply having an old account and a log running business

[Blush Bravin]

@Klytina, your posts are too long and too full of venom for me to even read them. If you removed your outright bias toward people/topics by not using those overly long, over the top adjectives your posts would be more palatable. 

[Callum Meriman]