Do you care if content is ripped?

[Luna Bliss]

On ‎8‎/‎4‎/‎2018 at 8:45 AM, OptimoMaximo said:

On ‎8‎/‎4‎/‎2018 at 7:55 AM, Luna Bliss said:

Once I hired someone to create a mesh and discovered they grabbled it off a 3D model site without permission!

My 2 cents on this: when I am hired to do some work, in order to build trust over the source material i'm providing, i include WIP pictures along the time needed to complete the task, from the original primitive(s) used to start the project up to the finished model. Most of the times i find myself proposing and doing it with no prompt about it, but i think it's a good idea to request such a thing when you outsource a mesh creation.

Good idea, Optimo. It's more difficult to insist on that when the person is a friend as well as a business partner...it's like asking them to prove they are being honest. With a business acquaintance however it would be easy to make the request.

But...I really need to have those files showing the creation process anyway...there could be an accusation of content theft at some point down the road, and I'd need to have those files as proof.

[Coffee Pancake]

If you're paying for someone to make a mesh for you. ALWAYS ask for changes or Video of it being made.

[Luna Bliss]

12 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said:

If you're paying for someone to make a mesh for you. ALWAYS ask for changes or Video of it being made.

Yes in today's climate, and only getting worse with all the thieves around, one can't be too careful!

[Fionalein]

29 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Yes in today's climate, and only getting worse with all the thieves around, one can't be too careful!

The only good thing about it is that old known faces were caught - before it was more or less a pretty good reason to keep newcomers away from your events because you could never be sure with them ... turns out you cannot be sure with anyone ... give those new guys a chance again 

Edited August 5, 2018 by Fionalein

[Tari Landar]

On 8/4/2018 at 10:28 AM, ChinRey said:

But I can't help wondering, how many other good and honest but struggling content creators think that way ... and how many eventually give in to the temptation?

The simple answer to that is...none.

Good, honest creators don't break the law, or the TOS, or "give in to the temptation" if you'd prefer to call it that (I would not as it dismisses the severity of the actions). If/when they do, they cease being good, honest creators. There is no justification whatsoever, and trying to make some applicable by saying things like "struggling to keep up", "in too many events", "too rigid a schedule", "being overwhelmed", are just that, excuses(and in my not so humble opinion, piss poor ones at that)

When a creator struggles, he/she only has his/her self to blame when that struggle continues. Cut back on what you're doing if what you're doing has you overwhelmed. It's not rocket surgery.

I can't build like I used to, hence why I ceased doing so on a regular basis. I did quite well, for years(for which I am beyond grateful), and I still do work, just not anywhere near the same level, and much of my work now is different than it was before. When the struggle reared it's ugly head, I scaled back. Again, it's not rocket surgery, it's common sense. 

[Rya Nitely]

4 hours ago, Tari Landar said:

Again, it's not rocket surgery, it's common sense. 

 

Edited August 6, 2018 by Rya Nitely

[Drake1 Nightfire]

I always find it amusing when someone sends me a texture they got from a google search and asks if i can make it into a tattoo.. When i ask where they got it from and if it is a free to use image they always say, "does that really matter? Just make it." Yes it matters and no i wont make it. 

[Fionalein]

Justa  silly question: We know folks don't care but what exactley did OP try to get to know with this thread? Come on, even if someone does not care they usually have enough brains left not to admit it in here... or would they?

[Paul Hexem]

5 minutes ago, Fionalein said:

Justa  silly question: We know folks don't care but what exactley did OP try to get to know with this thread? Come on, even if someone does not care they usually have enough brains left not to admit it in here... or would they?

Honestly though.

It doesn't particularly matter whether we care or not, it's just too hard to verify authenticity in SL. With everything we buy, we're taking a risk regardless. Why stress over it?

[Alyona Su]

3 hours ago, Fionalein said:

Justa  silly question: We know folks don't care but what exactley did OP try to get to know with this thread? Come on, even if someone does not care they usually have enough brains left not to admit it in here... or would they?

I won't say "I don't care", though I will say "It's not my worry".

3 hours ago, Gadget Portal said:

Honestly though.

It doesn't particularly matter whether we care or not, it's just too hard to verify authenticity in SL. With everything we buy, we're taking a risk regardless. Why stress over it?

Because this.

I'm just not caring enough to put in the time and effort to do the research on whether something I'm interested in buying it licensed, original, blah, blah, and furthermore, what burns my butt is when one resident makes it their business to allege a theft by another then ban that item from their sim, thereby punishing regular everyday people who use that item (with no knowledge whatsoever of the alleged theft). The simple result is those people will stop going to that sim; they aren't going to stop using that item they have already paid good money for. And I'm in *that* camp.

The real problem here is that there are hundreds of 3D model resale sights and the same original creator will sell their models on MULTIPLE OUTLET SITES, So, even if one site has a TOS that their models may not be used in SL, another site selling the same model may not have that exclusion. *I'm* not going to bother sleuthing all that out before I make a purchase in SL.

People are way too quick to make a judgment about theft and often jump to such conclusions without vetting at all. 

Edited August 6, 2018 by Alyona Su

[ChinRey]

29 minutes ago, Alyona Su said:

People are way too quick to make a judgment about theft and often jump to such conclusions without vetting at all. 

Not in the case Pamela mentioned though. We know where that particuar reseller got their items from because they actually admitted it. Ironically, it turned out they were bought from a pirate store that had slapped a "no resale" EULA onto models they didn't actually have the right to resell themselves.

Edited August 6, 2018 by ChinRey

[Fionalein]

3 minutes ago, ChinRey said:

... it turned out they were bought from a pirate store that had slapped a "no resale" EULA onto models they didn't actually have the right to resell themselves.

ROFL Sounds like a safe practice... they wouldn't risk a lawsuit, would they? 

Edited August 6, 2018 by Fionalein

[Alyona Su]

8 minutes ago, ChinRey said:

Not in the case Pamela mentioned though. We know where that particuar reseller got their items from because they actually admitted it. Ironically, it turned out they were bought from a pirate store that had slapped a "no resale" EULA onto models they didn't actually have the right to resell themselves.

I agree, which is why I didn't quote her, I was intended a more general comment.

[ChinRey]

4 hours ago, Alyona Su said:

...

and furthermore, what burns my butt is when one resident makes it their business to allege a theft by another then ban that item from their sim, thereby punishing regular everyday people who use that item (with no knowledge whatsoever of the alleged theft).

Fair enough. And I do agree, end users are often innocent victims in this.

Does it also burn your butt when skilled builders who rely on the income from the many hours they have spent building and learning how to build no longer can afford to pay their very realy RL bills? Does it burn you butt when they have to give up creating because they can't afford to spend all that time on something that doesn't provide any income?

Edit:

My concern is actually based on a different point of view.

I was actively involved in the open source movement long before I joined SL. It was based on blue eyed idealism of course, people working together, freely sharing. You took what you needed and gave whatever you could offer. If all you could offer in return was sincere gratitude, well, that was ok too. Perhaps most important: it was voluntary sharing. Nobody was obliged to give their work away for free.

Slowly but surely it was bled to death by people who thought they were entitled to all the goodies and had no intention or interest in giving anything, not even a half-hearted  "thanks". They saw it as their sovereign right to benefit from other people's hard work. The result was that the givers felt exploited, became more and more disillusioned and created less and less.

It was inevitable of course but it stil makes me sad.

Edited August 6, 2018 by ChinRey

[Love Zhaoying]

@ChinRey, your "place-holder" posts remind me of when people post "FIRST!!!1!!!!" on a thread to get the first post in. 

[ChinRey]

3 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

@ChinRey, your "place-holder" posts remind me of when people post "FIRST!!!1!!!!" on a thread to get the first post in. 

Yes but you see what the edit was in this case.

It occured to me that that side topic was going to come up soon anyway so I thought I could save a bit of thread length by adding it to an existing post.

Edited August 6, 2018 by ChinRey

[Love Zhaoying]

On 8/3/2018 at 7:05 AM, Pamela Galli said:

I just read some shocking reports of major SL brands —  award winning ones invited to every major event, including events stipulating original content only — being proven, and admitting, to passing off stolen mesh models as their own original work — for years

I'm shocked! Shocked, I tell you!

[ChinRey]

4 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I'm shocked! Shocked, I tell you!

Awww, how did I miss that one???

Next they're gonna tell us the world is round.

[Love Zhaoying]

On 8/3/2018 at 9:28 AM, Fluffy Sharkfin said:

The sad thing is, nature is literally full of weird and wonderful things which can be drawn upon for inspiration.  Some of my favourite RL artists are those that have managed to combine inspiration gained from the world around them with their own imaginations to create stunning and original works.

I stole DNA from my mom and dad. Hope they don't come after me for it!

[Fluffy Sharkfin]

2 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I stole DNA from my mom and dad. Hope they don't come after me for it!

Don't worry, I'm pretty sure they haven't extended copyright laws to DNA.... yet!

[ChinRey]

16 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I stole DNA from my mom and dad. Hope they don't come after me for it!

Don't worry, it's old enough to be in the public domain.

Except for the y chromosome. If you got one of those, you may be in a bit of trouble. But that turns out to be a flawed design and is known to cause some severe health risks. So the IP owners are a bit reluctant to demand their rights in case they get countersued. Between us, I think the inventors are just happy anybody wants that chromosome at all. It's not a good one.

Your parents can't do anything about it in any case. At the time they gave you your DNA, they were legally responsible for you so they would have to file a lawsuit against themselves.

Edited August 6, 2018 by ChinRey

[Love Zhaoying]

5 minutes ago, Fluffy Sharkfin said:

Don't worry, I'm pretty sure they haven't extended copyright laws to DNA.... yet!

I hope they do, I don't want to be cloned without permission!  Are you sure that copyrighted GMO products don't count?

[Fluffy Sharkfin]

Just now, Love Zhaoying said:

I hope they do, I don't want to be cloned without permission!  Are you sure that copyrighted GMO products don't count?

Well I guess we could try modelling a strand of DNA from a GMO product and upload it to SL then wait for the DMCAs to start rolling in?

Seriously though, as far as the natural world around us goes there really is no intellectual property rights to worry about which is one of the things I like most about doing environment/prop design, it really saves a lot of time when it comes to tracking down the original creator of concept art, etc to ask permission before recreating things in 3D.

[Alyona Su]

1 hour ago, ChinRey said:

Does it also burn your butt when skilled builders who rely on the income from the many hours they have spent building and learning how to build no longer can afford to pay their very realy RL bills?

1

No.

Now, please allow me to qualify this LOL

No, when it comes to big brand names, like Blueberry, Addams and many others - and that's just clothing. There also are vehicles and gadgets and so on. Here's where the "no" comes from, and it is relative, situational, and contextual: If a creator of mesh is *that good* they are also making money outside of SL with that skill, they are fools if they are not.

Now, with that said, I also know very well there are a lot of "amateur" mesh-makers, in fact, they are likely the majority in SL, and with them, the answer would be a lot closer to a yes. However, there are a lot of variables involved, only a very few of which are: Is the "copy" an actual copy or just a similar one, or the same idea? Are they big enough name sake-wise that a thief would even bother? and so one and so forth, etc.

My point is this: SL is way too big for me to be concerned about such things that involve an immense and chaotic array of variables; nothing is black-and-white in this (the OP notwithstanding). I am just one person, a consumer who just wants to consume. When it comes to ethics and morals I have mine and you have yours. And what is ethical to you may not be to me and vice-versa, these are squishy ideals. Basically, and I speak only for myself, I shop and I buy. If I learn later that something I have purchased for 5,000L is questionable at best and outright theft (by the "creator") at worst, will I stop using it and throw it away? Ummm, no. Because if it really was that and verified by LL then LL will blacklist it from the asset server. They have done this many times in the past and they will do it again.

The onus is on the genuinely original creator or owner of the I. P. to deal with it.

Long story made short: I had a Linden 500 club business back in the prim days. Back when copybot was all the rage. Someone spotted some dragon statues I made, called together a literal mob to protest and chases away customers. The creator of the alleged original came by and proclaimed loudly " THESE ARE NOT COPIES OF MY STUFF, ONLY SIMILAR". Did the mob disband? No.

My point is everything is hearsay unless the genuine original creator comes forth.

It's okay to plonk me for my personal views on the subject matter now. LOL

~Shrugs~

Edited August 6, 2018 by Alyona Su

[Drake1 Nightfire]

3 hours ago, Alyona Su said:

and furthermore, what burns my butt is when one resident makes it their business to allege a theft by another then ban that item from their sim, thereby punishing regular everyday people who use that item (with no knowledge whatsoever of the alleged theft).

How do you ban an item?