No Copy clothes? Give me a break!

[Bradford Mint]

6 minutes ago, Klytyna said:

Current RLV/RLVa viewers have NO problems wearing or unwearing #RLV subfolders containing links to no-copy items... Just ask ANYONE who ever bought anything from Real Restraints or Restrained Freedom...
 

The issue was/is more involved though than just wear or unwear a folder containing links but rather that if an RLV call was made to locate a system clothing layer and then remove the content of everything in the folder where that clothing layer was found. (That's one RLV API call.)

A link to an object worked, however, a link to a clothing layer had the viewer resolving the absolute location of the original item and then removing items from the folder of the actual item rather than the linked location.

I haven't tested it recently but yeah it's quite specific.

[Bradford Mint]

11 minutes ago, Alyona Su said:

People said that back in back in 2006, not today.

Selling transferable "copy" items is easy: on Market Place: send it as a gift. In world: inexpensive voucher/server system: buyer gets a transferable voucher, once clicked the actual item is delivered. Practically all vendor systems also offer a "Gift" ability to send the purchase to another account.

So the OP still has a very valid point. 

Yes but as I mentioned before, the question isn't always about gifting ability but how to gift.

Some people actually ask for a transfer version because they want to give it.

Plus, some in various communities, such as those who role play in certain ways, want an item that they can give to this weeks favourite play slave. Next week that person may be different so they want thing returned.

Don't assume that those of us who are stating opposing positions are against you. I for one am very much in agreement in general but there are always those who seek alternate permissions and those who choose not to offer what you seek.

Said it already, if the permissions aren't what you want, ask. It may or may not suit the creator to satisfy the request.

[Klytyna]

16 minutes ago, Bradford Mint said:

The issue was/is more involved though than just wear or unwear a folder containing links but rather that if an RLV call was made to locate a system clothing layer and then remove the content of everything in the folder where that clothing layer was found. (That's one RLV API call.)

A link to an object worked, however, a link to a clothing layer had the viewer resolving the absolute location of the original item and then removing items from the folder of the actual item rather than the linked location.

I haven't tested it recently but yeah it's quite specific.

Ahh thats a different issue...

RLV/RLVa can wear/unwear the contents of folders  via links to no-copy items, regardless if it's an atytachment or a system layer.

I know this to be true, as I was using rlv to wear/unwear folders with links to no-copy system clothing more than 4 years ago.

What you are talking about...

Find a clothing item, then remove non rlv folder contents that item shares a folder with...

"Smart Strip", a bloody awful cludge fix thing n a certain group of collar versions, it mainly failed because the originator wasn't very smart. The whole idea mainly rested on using "dummy clothing items' to strip mesh/alphas in folders that weren't in #RLV. Basically a plan to help people be lazy and avoid setting up their rlv folders correctly.

@detachthis on an #RLV subfolder containing links to no-copy system layers works fine, and has done for years, I was using it every damn day to add/remove no-copy system clothing from my Avi back in 2013, and it still works fine on no-copy attachments, though I haven't tried system layers recently as I no longer wear system clothing.
 

[Drake1 Nightfire]

2 hours ago, Alyona Su said:

People said that back in back in 2006, not today.

Selling transferable "copy" items is easy: on Market Place: send it as a gift. In world: inexpensive voucher/server system: buyer gets a transferable voucher, once clicked the actual item is delivered. Practically all vendor systems also offer a "Gift" ability to send the purchase to another account.

So the OP still has a very valid point. 

Really? You have never had a customer ask for a transfer version recently? I have. 

Yes, you can send it as a gift on the MP.. You better make damn sure you spell their name perfectly. 

Inexpensive... please define this term. Unless you are ok with giving the creator of the system a cut, they are not cheap. 

The OP has a valid opinion, which like a body part, we all have and they are all valid.

Again, how hard is it to ask the creator for a copy version? 

[Fionalein]

1 hour ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

Again, how hard is it to ask the creator for a copy version? 

No idea how hard that is but given the responses I got on similar questions it's not worth the hassle... I just shop elsewhere (pretty much the answer I would expect anyways)

[LittleMe Jewell]

13 hours ago, Rya Nitely said:

Well,  I am a believer in raising issues that might lead to change. That's how changes come about. 

Sometimes merchants don't know what customers want, and I think it's good business sense to listen.

^^ This - though there are probably nicer ways to say it such that creators aren't immediately just feeling criticized

[Love Zhaoying]

33 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

^^ This - though there are probably nicer ways to say it such that creators aren't immediately just feeling criticized

Criticism is a bad thing? Definition 2 isn't that bad below..but it seems a bit narrow.

1. the expression of disapproval of someone or something based on perceived faults or mistakes.

   "he received a lot of criticism"

   synonyms:

   censure, condemnation, denunciation, disapproval, disparagement, opprobrium, fault-finding, attack, broadside, stricture, recrimination; More

2. the analysis and judgment of the merits and faults of a literary or artistic work.

   "alternative methods of criticism supported by well-developed literary theories"

   synonyms:

   evaluation, assessment, appraisal, analysis, judgment; More

[Love Zhaoying]

Playing devil's advocate..perhaps "no copy" is kinder to the SL asset system, as there will only be one GUID of the item per owner.

[Rya Nitely]

 

6 hours ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

20 hours ago, Rya Nitely said:

Well,  I am a believer in raising issues that might lead to change. That's how changes come about. 

Sometimes merchants don't know what customers want, and I think it's good business sense to listen.

^^ This - though there are probably nicer ways to say it such that creators aren't immediately just feeling criticized

Maybe if I should have said 'Sometimes we don't know what customers want, and I think it's good business sense to listen.'

'there are probably nicer ways to say it without leaving someone feeling criticized' - how often in this thread would this comment not apply?

I'm also a firm believer in being nice 

[Rya Nitely]

10 minutes ago, Rya Nitely said:

'there are probably nicer ways to say it without leaving someone feeling criticized' - how often in this thread would this comment not apply?

I think I did it again 

But I want to say it 

[LittleMe Jewell]

1 hour ago, Rya Nitely said:

 

Maybe if I should have said 'Sometimes we don't know what customers want, and I think it's good business sense to listen.'

'there are probably nicer ways to say it without leaving someone feeling criticized' - how often in this thread would this comment not apply?

I'm also a firm believer in being nice 

You misunderstood my comment - I was not referring to you with the second part of my comment.  I should have split that part of my comment off from my comment agreeing with your post that I quoted and then made it more clear.  I was referring to the OPs rant that started the thread as I could see it immediately turning creators away rather than getting them to listen.

Edited August 10, 2018 by LittleMe Jewell

[ShelbyBeu]

On 8/8/2018 at 8:12 PM, drusilladarkwillow said:

with an animation being no copy, it's more than likely transferable and that's to protect them so that their products aren't being passed around the grid. Animations, many use in either dance machines or in their own ao that they had built AND most creators have copy versions of them or will create a copy version if you ask them nicely. As for clothes and skins, that would depend on if it came from a gotcha or not. Gotcha items are no copy so that people can trade or resell them on the market and as for clothing, if it's mesh that depends on if they had bought it FP on the market and what the ToS the original creator had as well. 

 

As for if you buy no copy items or not, That's 100% up to you and it's not fair to tell others what they should and shouldn't buy just because you don't like it. It doesn't effect everyone and it's a personal choice. There's some things that I don't buy no copy and others don't I don't care either way.

Then make the animation non-transferable, which I prefer a whole lot more.

I can't tell people what they can or cannot buy.  I can try to persuade people not to buy No Copy, both so they don't lose their item with no way to get it back and to, in my opinion, improve what is offered.

 

On 8/9/2018 at 10:44 PM, LittleMe Jewell said:

You misunderstood my comment - I was not referring to you with the second part of my comment.  I should have split that part of my comment off from my comment agreeing with your post that I quoted and then made it more clear.  I was referring to the OPs rant that started the thread as I could see it immediately turning creators away rather than getting them to listen.

I understand your point.  I was more interested when I wrote the rant in getting potential customers to listen.  If enough won't buy No Copy, nearly everything would at the least have a  Copy version, especially items only worthwhile on oneself.  I was also angry at seeing No Copy clothes, because I don't see a good reason for them, so I was less than purely rational in what I wrote.  I then think I wrote calmer posts after that, and I also don't think I was the only one who in this thread wrote an overheated post.

At bottom, I want to improve the market, and while my methods may not have been the most effective, and some might believe (though I really don't get the point of view) that if I got what I wanted it would not improve the market; but the anger directed by some was, I think, uncalled for-- even toward my initial rant.

But if a creator goes No Copy just because they didn't like the tone of my rant, that person is behaving the worst of anyone.  If someone complains about a practice, they may not convince you so you may ignore the complaint; but you don't decide to mess up your business if you make Copy items by stopping the practice because you don't like that someone ranted against No Copy-- after all, I'm encouraging people to buy from that creator, whose items are Copy-- or if you do, you really deserve unkind feedback, worse than any even in my first rant.

[Fionalein]

Well gacha won't work without "no copy" but some gacha creators offer to exchange them into copy versions upon request... usually I stock to those and voucher gachas.

[ShelbyBeu]

1 minute ago, Fionalein said:

Well gacha won't work without "no copy" but some gacha creators offer to exchange them into copy versions upon request... usually I stock to those and voucher gachas.

 

In my OP I mentioned, kind of in a small aside, gachas in a way that was meant to show I recognized they were an exception.  Many people enjoy them, and they don't really work with Copy, so there's a good reason for them to be No Copy.  I even pretty clearly conceded that I saw a decent reason for things like furniture and radios to be No Copy, though I'll go for a Copy version if I can-- but I understand the logic in making those No Copy.  It's clothes/skins/animations, things that even if Copy can't be used multiple times as long as No Trans, and that also aren't Gachas, that were the topic of my OP-- really clothes set it off, but I see some of those on the others as well.