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@Chic Aeon I want to thank you for starting this thread. I do enjoy your posts a lot. I"ve not been active in Sansar for a few months now so I actually use your posts here and Inara's blog to keep up on what's happening in Sansar. 

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That new free lady avatar is very nice.  I don't like her shoes much with the dress but she is WAAAAAY prettier than our normal gal.  Now if they would just let folks make clothes for her.   I guess that could get messy though and confusing so not sure how that would be handled. BUT at least someone is doing something to make us prettier. 

I am going to see if my accessories will fit on her. Having NO choice of clothes at all is a killer but maybe in six months things will move along further. I think I mentioned that Elliot said at the last community meeting (where I could barely hear him so gave up listening) that there were no plans to change the Sansar default skeleton for the next year. We might possibly get some sliders maybe?  No clue.

I am a little miffed that the clothes I made are in some cases not as good as I made them. Of course others have the same issues and apparently "home rigged " rather than MD have some of the same problems.  It is obvious, as you Blush said, that the avatars are far down the todo list. I do understand your reticence to create when you don't know how things will be further down the road. 

I have been working on H and G for the last month or so and have tons of things to add to the store "soon". I am in waiting mode at the moment :D.  Hopefully in a few days we will have a better idea about what is going on and I can switch out my scenes with the new stuff :D.

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1 hour ago, Callum Meriman said:

Are they actually too big in reality Chic? Using the 8 head scale, one's feet are about the same size as one's head, chin to crown.

Not MY real life feet (hands too).  Once you get shoes on them they look very much like circus clowns and some of the "library" shoes are thick and huge.  We see that now and then in SL too, just not my thing. Here in SL we have one size of feet no matter the size of the avatar so BIG gals have relatively small feet.  The "newer" feet are apparently larger than the original Sansar default avatar feet as at least one creator had to remake there shoes when the newer (Spring 2017?) avatars appeared. 

But if you like big feet then you don't have to huff and puff :D. 

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If we could put those feet into heels they wouldn't look as large either. I really want heels in Sansar. Every time we've brought that up it's been shot down saying that they've worked very hard to keep our feet on the ground and putting the feet in heels would be a problem. 

Honestly, the ONLY thing that keeps me from going Sansar all the way is the avatar. I just can't get into "being" like everyone else unless I want to be an alien or some kind of creature. I want a pretty human avatar that I can dress up. That doesn't seem to be coming any time soon. After a year of waiting, I gave up.

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7 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

I am going to see if my accessories will fit on her.

It's my understanding that you can't use clothing or attachments with custom avatars. So let me know if that's changed.

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3 hours ago, Blush Bravin said:

It's my understanding that you can't use clothing or attachments with custom avatars. So let me know if that's changed.

You are correct, I am sure. It was just late and I was "musing" LOL.    From comments today on DISCORD it sounds like any customization of avatars is likely a long way off.  We'll see. It seems like most folks expect the STEAM crowd to go for custom avatars.   

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17 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

It seems like most folks expect the STEAM crowd to go for custom avatars. 

If that's the case then there is no point in making clothing or attachments to sell. You can't use those with custom avatars. Honestly, I'm not encouraged.

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4 hours ago, Blush Bravin said:

If that's the case then there is no point in making clothing or attachments to sell. You can't use those with custom avatars. Honestly, I'm not encouraged.

Silas was showing screenshots of MD clothes and attachments on avatars today but I just tried it in the Lookbook  and everything is grayed out. So not sure what he was doing to make that happen --- and definitely beyond most newcomer skills even if "possible" somehow.  So I am in agreement. I make stuff for "me" and that works. And I sell some things but I won't be getting rich any time soon.   Tomorrow is the last day for Sandex and I am guessing many folks didn't get their money traded in.  I didn't even try :D.   

STEAM by the end of the week and I suspect there will likely be an update of some kind before that although none has been announced yet.  Someone wrote a comment (and then deleted but I got the email) about avatars being a priority by The Lab (this after my comment about them not being).  LOL.  Anyone that has been there awhile knows the story by now. I am just VERY thankful that they finally FIXED THE FRACKING TEEEEETH - LOL.    

I definitely understand where you are coming from. It's SEEMS pretty obvious (unless the official people are really keeping their NDA secrets) that interaction and gaming are the high points on the list these days. And I  get that.  Medhue made a comment about pretty scenery and lovely textures not really being the point of experiences. I agree that interaction is important but I also KNOW how many "just plain pretty" sims in SL are popular. People come and hang out and take photos and just enjoy themselves. Not everyone needs to be entertained.

Hopefully we get *ss grab points (their term but I don't want to get reprimanded :D) on the next update.

 

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5 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

It seems like most folks expect the STEAM crowd to go for custom avatars.   

I would too.

Look at some VR-Chat videos on youtube for an idea what sort of avatars steam players will choose. (be aware that many of the videos will be a little sweary and kneedeep with incels)

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Well it is obvious that the STEAM folks are not my clientele. That being said there was a lot of conversation about avatars, custom avatars and the ability to let the custom avatars have some cus-tom-i-za-tion as in attachments. This from new creators. Those of us (even me at four month) who have already seen where that goes are likely all shaking their heads.   

When I first got over there I said "two years to prime time". While a lot has been accomplished, I am not changing my early estimation. 

 

But I am having a great time. So that works. 

 

 

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Big Day in Sansar.

STEAM IS THE WORD!

Kind of a madhouse over there with tons of folks trying to use the STEAM version rather than the Sansar website version.  Even the devs seemed puzzled at that. Issues of course :D.  There was an update but may just have been STEAM stuff. If we get a blog post on new additions, then we will know.

Meanshile SANDEX is gone and we are cashing out via support until January.  Info on the cashing out process was incorrect and hopefully will be fixed on the website. Meanwhile you ACTUALLY want to say how many Sansar dollars you want to cash in. There is no official mention of the rate anywhere and asking in Discord got me nowhere even though there were folks that apparently knew. 

 

So I cashed in 10,000 Sansar dollars -- which with the devaluation is apparently -- wait for it --- $69 before the 1.5 percent taken out. That would be $40 US under the new system (so close to SL).  There is going to need to be a big boost in sales to compensate --- or there will be a fair amount of MIA creators :D. 

 

Also in the news was a new TOS yesterday which took us back to the Creator Preview (lon, wordy, lots of promises we had to make regarding testing etc.) rather then the EU open beta version that I previously signed.  I was NOT a happy gal.  There is text in there that is completely wrong, or if not wrong we are all in DEEP trouble.  But --- 

Please note that you do NOT need to get the viewer via STEAM. The old way works just fine.  

 

Edit:  The promised (unless we understood the info and it was reported incorrectly) fee disappearance hasn't happened yet. That, if it happens, would give back 15 percent for new sales. 

The cut was taken off yesterday but the web listing page wasn't fixed accordingly, so that helps for the future.

Edited by Chic Aeon
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So today's stats show a 400 percent increase in concurrency (not counting private and editing experiences). 

If you want to be able to chat on STEAM about SANSAR you need to install and run the STEAM version of the client at least once. Note this is kinda messy and consists of installing and uninstalling and reinstalling (I got lost).   You also need to have spent at least five dollars at STEAM. I am passing on all of that. 

 

What I really came in to type about was a bit of philosophy. Just my opinion but here it is. 

This is kind of for Blush and any other clothing and accessory creator.  Right now the STORE is flooded with garments. A few are very nice but most are "learning experiences" with stolen graphics. Whatever, ALL those clothes are making it very difficult to FIND clothes. The store has increased its products about 20 percent since I arrived four months ago. MOST of that is clothing. MUCH of that is different versions of one item (the famous "make ten things from one file" edict). 

 

So --- if I was a clothing creator I would not be looking at Sansar at the moment. Most of the things I see people wearing look like fourteen year old's garb. Much of the STORE inventory is in that vein. Yes, there are adults there, but WHERE are they?  Rhetorical; they are likely working. 

So while I really like Marvelous Designer, there is a "sales" issue growing. Also we have the adjuster not adjusting all that well these days. 

There are a few stellar items to note (like the rigged Victorian underware (no demo so I can't really say how well it works inworld)) but in general I don't see a lot of clothing sales in many people's future. 

I am still selling some but mine is a bit better than the median.  H and G seems to be selling better. I doubt that the STEAM crowd will want to put down roots though so I don't see that helping me much personally.

 

That's the current lay of the land as I see it.  Next big update is pushing for next week according to Ebbe.  Hopefully we will have "grab points" for posteriors. I really DO need to learn how to do that.

 

On the personal plus side I made some really nice water for a redo of a land form. I still have no idea how that new shader works. I just kept moving the sliders until I got what I liked. I read all the documentation, but what happened didn't seem to mirror the instructions. Still, got it done. Looks good. 

I also got some new software last week that enhances my Cycles with PBR shaders, so best of both worlds (from my point of view anyway);

 

PS. That is an inworld shot, not a render. :D

 

173092189_SeaFlowerArt-brassSTORE.png.f4d10975b2ea2cae07dcb5f7615f53e8.png

 

 

 

Edited by Chic Aeon
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32 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

There are a few stellar items to note (like the rigged Victorian underware

I took a look at those undies in the store and saw that the description says they were made in MD so wondering how the recent situation is affecting how they fit. I have to confess I've not logged in to test the changes myself. I know I should, but I have a lot to do in SL these days, and it's my priority now.

I did check the atlas a couple of times today to see how many visitors were showing in the various experiences. I did notice a nice little jump in the numbers. It was also interesting to check over on Steam and see the comments being made there. Most of them were from long time Sansarians. I only saw one comment from someone new and it wasn't positive. But hey, it's very early. They do make it very clear in the description for Sansar on Steam that it is still in early Beta. That's a good thing. There have been some comments that since it went open public creator beta that is was somehow not really still in Beta, but anyone who has spent any time there should clearly see that it's still very much in Beta. 

I'm going to be watching how things progress. I'm still hopeful, and just waiting for the day when we get true customization for the default avatar. 

 

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One thing that puzzles me are three of the categories LL chose to list under;

9b0febee40bb91cbfb92ef5182772a42.png.00ee4c7e5adf75fb1c38461b78b2a234.png

In Steam terms Sansar isn't offering any of those.

3 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

If you want to be able to chat on STEAM about SANSAR you need to install and run the STEAM version of the client at least once. Note this is kinda messy and consists of installing and uninstalling and reinstalling (I got lost).   You also need to have spent at least five dollars at STEAM. I am passing on all of that. 


If you go that route so you can chat on steam, I would advise against uninstalling and instead stay with the Steam version. Your time online is tracked, people who have 10 minutes in a game are not respected as much as someone who has 500+ hours in it (not that there is much respect on Steam lol)

2 hours ago, Blush Bravin said:

They do make it very clear in the description for Sansar on Steam that it is still in early Beta.


I only saw the Early Access indicator. That's not really a Beta indicator, just that the game is not finished.

 

Edited by Callum Meriman

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1 hour ago, Callum Meriman said:

One thing that puzzles me are three of the categories LL chose to list under;

9b0febee40bb91cbfb92ef5182772a42.png.00ee4c7e5adf75fb1c38461b78b2a234.png

Those are game categories - I understand they don't want it listed as any of those as it should not be considered a game (But why is it on STEAM then?).

4 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

If you want to be able to chat on STEAM about SANSAR you need to install and run the STEAM version of the client at least once. Note this is kinda messy and consists of installing and uninstalling and reinstalling (I got lost).   You also need to have spent at least five dollars at STEAM. I am passing on all of that. What I really came in to type about was a bit of philosophy. Just my opinion but here it is. 

And the obvious neccessity of having a STEAM account - so STEAM chat users will be on the same boat as voice user in SL. Folks know they are there but ignore them mostly - Dividing the few users it has won't help the thing prosper either.

Edited by Fionalein
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3 minutes ago, Fionalein said:

Those are game categories - I understand they don't want it listed as any of those as it should not be considered a game (But why is it on STEAM then?).

Yes, game categories. Very loosely, as I understand it at least, CoOp is where two or more people will team up to defeat a common AI enemy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooperative_gameplay

 

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15 minutes ago, Callum Meriman said:

Yes, game categories. Very loosely, as I understand it at least, CoOp is where two or more people will team up to defeat a common AI enemy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooperative_gameplay

 

Not neccesarily, Simutrans can also be played CoOp and there is no "enemy". Replace "defeat an enemy" with "reaching a common goal" which is a broader definition that includes no conflict games like simulators. It does not even have to be a computer game, I own several CoOp boardgames as well, in those you play to beat the game mechanics.

Edited by Fionalein
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5 minutes ago, Fionalein said:

Not neccesarily, Simutrans can also be played CoOp and there is no "enemy".

It would still be two people working together, co-cooperatively, to achieve a common goal?

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2 minutes ago, Callum Meriman said:

It would still be two people working together, co-cooperatively, to achieve a common goal?

Yes, in the case of Simutrans it would be "establishing a prospering freight infrastructure". In Minecraft it could be "build an impressive town"...

Edited by Fionalein

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6 hours ago, Callum Meriman said:

I only saw the Early Access indicator. That's not really a Beta indicator, just that the game is not finished.

Correct the word beta is not used; however when reading the information

early.png.f3d621633fd3959a205c6c09687d7f95.png

beta.png.f89d6126038c630f090e925967cc77e3.png

and this definition of beta

betaDEF.png.0e1dd35c2cf3dd84f71dec4406a2b7d2.png

It seems to me to indicate that Sansar is still in Beta. There has been some vigorous debate over there by some of the users about what it means to be in beta and whether or not it's correct to say Sansar is still in beta since it's available publicly. So in this case, I'm glad they don't actually use the word beta but rather give a good description of what stage of development Sansar is in currently. 

 

 

Edited by Blush Bravin
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HMMMM.  Well SL was officially in BETA during its biggest growth period.  I haven't heard anyone fighting against the beta term over there.  Officially we are in beta. I mean you can't sit "evenly" on a chair yet, let alone call a pose at the same time (or --- OMG actually have pose choices) LOL.  

Since Sansar is NOT SL, it is best called a platform (and I believe that is the official designation). But that platform does "host" plenty of games, some which you work together. It should be noted that the current TOS makes many references to BETA SOFTWARE.   


 

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10 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

So today's stats show a 400 percent increase in concurrency (not counting private and editing experiences). 

If you want to be able to chat on STEAM about SANSAR you need to install and run the STEAM version of the client at least once. Note this is kinda messy and consists of installing and uninstalling and reinstalling (I got lost).   You also need to have spent at least five dollars at STEAM. I am passing on all of that. 

 

That's an encouraging start!

And I agree with you about not needing to install the Steam version of Sansar. I won't switch to the Steam version unless there is a compelling reason to do so. And being able to post reviews and participate in the Steam community is not in itself a compelling reason to me. But I do have a Steam account and I could switch over if I need to in future.

Thanks again for starting this thread and building it, Chic.

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Today's product meeting info suggests that both the default avatar and custom avatars are still near the bottom of the priority list. This after questions and comments from many.  The Lookbook will attempt to keep up with MD8. Note that things I made in 7.5 are not working AS well as when they were made AND those working in MD8 are having some pretty major issues.   Lots of suggestions what avatar makers want but none that I heard being welcomed :D.

We will have custom mapping for sits in next week's update. Not sure how that will work for desktop folks but since "we" were never the problem I suspect we will be covered also.

Multiple items within a STORE listing isn't 'that far away' which will make things much less messy. Not sure about taking things in an experience back into inventory as a linkset; mentioned as being nice.  Some kind of on the fly material editing in the works. 

 

Soon there will be the ability to disable teleports and camming on the experience level. 

Thoughts:  It seems like the only way that avatar customization will get moved forward is if a bunch of the STEAM folks write that in the comments on STEAM.  They have (from reports at the meeting) been complaining as newbies.

 

AND there were plenty of folks around and many new running all over. On the plus side I only saw ONE gray person so folks are at least switching to a spaceman (seemed to be popular) avatar from the Library.  Eventually they will probably find the free stuff :D. 

Edited by Chic Aeon
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