SL = Video Game

[Ceka Cianci]

It feels more like a 3d editor to me..

The games I used to play,you had the game and then the editor where you could create stuff..

I really don't care where the politics of it lands for others..My world is my world,my imagination,that's all I know.. It's really not something I let bother me..

It really doesn't have to fit into a certain box to work well..

 

Edited August 2, 2018 by Ceka Cianci

[Sammy Huntsman]

 

4 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

It feels more like a 3d editor to me..

The games I used to play,you had the game and then the editor where you could create stuff..

I really don't care where the politics of it lands for others..My world is my world,my imagination,that's all I know.. It's really not something I let bother me..

It really doesn't have to fit into a certain box to work well..

 

I've always looked at it, as an open world sandbox game. However with emotional attachments, and actual people, instead of NPCs. SL gives me the ability to build, explore, and even interact. Just like most games of this caliber allows you to do. Obviously, to have the interaction part, you would need to get on a server. However, that is always how I saw it.

[Coffee Pancake]

7 hours ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

They would have Playstation Home, which failed.

Playstation home did not fail. It's life was tied to a specific piece of limited life hardware. It closed in 2015, 2 years after the launch of the PS4. It's successor can be found on steam and for the PS4 as Atom Universe.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/394120/Atom_Universe/

https://www.playstation.com/en-us/games/atom-universe-ps4/

 

1 hour ago, Ceka Cianci said:

It feels more like a 3d editor to me..

That doesn't include the tools to create & edit contemporary 3D content.

[Penny Patton]

14 hours ago, animats said:

Now, it used to be that game development relied on manual content optimization. But in recent years, there's been progress. Some links:

Far too many people hear about tools like these and think game artists simply do not worry about optimization anymore, but this is not the case. Tools like these are meant to be used in conjunction with manual optimization, not as a replacement for it.

 ETA:

 I do think tools to help SL content creators optimize their work for SL would be a good idea. I'm not trying to be dismissive of what you're saying. It's just that there is no magic wand that can completely optimize the kind of content regularly flooding SL by itself. There needs to be tools that prevent people from creating content that will have an excessive impact on performance, tools that guide users, whether they realize it or not, towards making better choices. Then, any tools LL could implement to automatically optimize content further would be more effective.

7 hours ago, Phorumities said:

I guess it comes from having a naturally positive attitude, which also explains why have no problem meeting people and making friends.

No one is saying you shouldn't enjoy SL, we're simply saying there's room for improvement that will make SL more successful.

You seem to be arguing against such improvements and suggesting that if people don't like SL as it is right now, then that's their fault. Second Life has had a steadily declining user population for nearly 10 years now. If LL wants to stay in business, they need to turn that around. Dismissing the opinions of others as simply "being too negative" is not a good way to run a business or develop a product like Second Life.

9 hours ago, Klytyna said:

There's no NEED to look at other "games" to find out what they are doing to get 90 fps...

We already know.

I believe what Gadget is saying is that we, you and I and others here on the forum, may realize these things but if Linden Lab realizes it then they have not shown it in the past 15 years. I know that, in the past at least, there has been a strong resistance to ideas and technologies not created within LL itself. They have seemed intent on reinventing the wheel, often without the experience necessary to do it. Based on SL's announcements in the past year or so I would like to believe this attitude has shifted but we'll need to see LL actually deliver on what they're promising for the future.

9 hours ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

They would have Playstation Home, which failed.

I don't think anyone here is suggesting we narrow the idea of what SL could be down to a hub for games. The suggestion Coffee, myself and others are making is to improve upon what SL already does and in doing so provide many more options for content and activities.

Edited August 2, 2018 by Penny Patton

[Phorumities]

11 minutes ago, Penny Patton said:

No one is saying you shouldn't enjoy SL, we're simply saying there's room for improvement that will make SL more successful.

You seem to be arguing against such improvements and suggesting that if people don't like SL as it is right now, then that's their fault. Second Life has had a steadily declining user population for nearly 10 years now. If LL wants to stay in business, they need to turn that around. Dismissing the opinions of others as simply "being too negative" is not a good way to run a business or develop a product like Second Life.

 

I'm pretty sure I never said we shouldn't try to improve second life, I just meant I'm satisfied with how it is right now.

It meets all my needs and expectations.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

5 hours ago, Gadget Portal said:

Incorrect. 

Wow.. Way to give an elaborate reply... 

[Coffee Pancake]

38 minutes ago, Penny Patton said:

I don't think anyone here is suggesting we narrow the idea of what SL could be down to a hub for games. The suggestion Coffee, myself and others are making is to improve upon what SL already does and in doing so provide many more options for content and activities.

Exactly. If you could legitimately make games in SL then the tech and tools required to do that would dramatically improve everything else we do as a side effect. The end goal is a better experience for everyone, not to redefine SL as having limited or singular purpose.

Games is a good example as it covers all the main bases. Interactivity, responsiveness, agency, story telling, rendering performance, etc. Any advancement in any of those areas will have a knock on effect broader than simply making games.

[animats]

14 hours ago, CoffeeDujour said:

Imagine what would happen if they decided that SL is a place to make and play games in a massively social setting.

There are people who do that in SL, of course. Christi Charon sets up a Drivers of SL drive each week, where 30-50 people go out on the road and go someplace. You get a HUD which gives you turn by turn directions and sets up some special effects. Sometimes there's a scenario. Sometimes tasks to do. Sometimes a party. Once, a weekend campout. Participants usually get something good for finishing - a car, a travel trailer, a motorcycle - because builders participate and sponsor.

Unlike most things in SL, it's not tied to land. It's in a different part of SL each week.

Unexpected things happen. Sometimes we pick up hitchhikers and give them a ride. A few weeks ago, the drive ran into a roleplay where a fire department was fighting a bus fire on a road. Motorcycles could get by, but cars couldn't. When bikers got to the finish and reported this, the SL coast guard sent out a helicopter to check out the fire scene. The fire crew finished up, towed the bus, and reopened the road.

Now that's using SL as a place to make and play games in a massively social setting.

[Penny Patton]

I don't think anyone is trying to downplay what communities in SL already do, only suggesting that there's a whole lot of potential that hasn't been tapped yet. 

[Coffee Pancake]

45 minutes ago, animats said:

Now that's using SL as a place to make and play games in a massively social setting.

With the minor exception that vehicles in SL are uniformly terrible. 

This was in There.com. 10 years ago. This is why we need client side authoritative physics.

 

[Ceka Cianci]

7 hours ago, CoffeeDujour said:

 

That doesn't include the tools to create & edit contemporary 3D content.

Feels more like,Not feels exactly  like.

[Akasha Sternberg]

well to answer the original question:

SL IS a videogame( 3D simulation, open world) with a huge community (a massive 3D chatroom -like Habbo hotel back in the 90s but with less kids *according to their birth certificates that is xD* and better graphics) and all that is topped off with quite the economy effecting RL/First Life/that weird stuff where the pizza is...

 

[Paul Hexem]

6 hours ago, Drake1 Nightfire said:

Wow.. Way to give an elaborate reply... 

Yeah, I was mobile and couldn't be bothered to type the stuff that had already been typed in the thread all over again. I'd already listed games that defied the first half of her argument, and Penny had listed reasons that defied the second half.

[animats]

5 hours ago, CoffeeDujour said:

With the minor exception that vehicles in SL are uniformly terrible.

They're not that bad. I just sent Coffee one of our bikes. Coffee, take it out on some long Linden roads and ride it until you can stay in 3rd or 4th gear and stay in lane. Don't worry about sim crossings; that's handled. Most people can ride that bike well with 10 minutes of practice.

I have criticisms of SL's vehicle system, but for comparison, download Unreal Engine and build the default vehicle demo. The physics is better but the driveability is worse.

(What I, and most of the aviation people, would really like is access to joystick input. You can hook a joystick to SL, and get some proportional control over avatars, but you can't read the joystick from LSL.)

[Nalytha]

On 8/1/2018 at 11:32 PM, Penny Patton said:

When people suggest that gamers would only be interested in Second Life if it had points to score and bosses to beat I have to say that they're making a lot of ill-informed assumptions on what's driving people away from SL in the first place. Fact of the matter is, there are a lot of gamers already in Second Life and gamers have been interested in virtual worlds like Second Life longer than anyone. Gamers are people, they have a variety of interests just like anyone else. SL falls short of the mark for many not because there's no aliens to shoot or quest givers telling them to find 18 boar tusks, but because it has real problems that have been pointed out, discussed, and shown where they can be improved time and time again, but in 15 years those improvements never came.

Gamer here. This is exactly how I feel. 

Second Life users try so hard to distinguish themselves from the gaming industry that in my opinion it hurts them. If they embraced that community and technology, they could follow along with the progress the gaming industry is setting and moving forward. I’ve played online games for over a decade, and so I’m not a stranger to online worlds. SL is an online world. However, the rest of the online games are looking at each other, competing with each other, pushing the boundaries of technology, finding new and innovative ways to implement ways to socialize and connect. While Second Life just sits in the corner with its arms crossed and says “No! I’m not like the rest of you and I won’t hang out and learn and progress with you!! I’m too cool for you!!”

It’s a real /smh sort of moment for me, watching Second Life be so stubborn. And to what end? So people can roll their eyes at the “elitist” gamers and tell themselves, “Oh, me? Gamer? No way. I’m not so pathetic... I LIVE in Second Life.” 

Snobs. That’s honestly the word that comes to mind when I look at this issue from some people’s description. It honestly just sounds like older folks who don’t want to be labeled gamers for whatever preconceived negative notion that is in their head. 

 

Yup. I said it. Go ahead and burn me at the stake. 

[Paul Hexem]

5 minutes ago, Nalytha said:

Gamer here. This is exactly how I feel. 

Second Life users try so hard to distinguish themselves from the gaming industry that in my opinion it hurts them. If they embraced that community and technology, they could follow along with the progress the gaming industry is setting and moving forward. I’ve played online games for over a decade, and so I’m not a stranger to online worlds. SL is an online world. However, the rest of the online games are looking at each other, competing with each other, pushing the boundaries of technology, finding new and innovative ways to implement ways to socialize and connect. While Second Life just sits in the corner with its arms crossed and says “No! I’m not like the rest of you and I won’t hang out and learn and progress with you!! I’m too cool for you!!”

It’s a real /smh sort of moment for me, watching Second Life be so stubborn. And to what end? So people can roll their eyes at the “elitist” gamers and tell themselves, “Oh, me? Gamer? No way. I’m not so pathetic... I LIVE in Second Life.” 

Snobs. That’s honestly the word that comes to mind when I look at this issue from some people’s description. It honestly just sounds like older folks who don’t want to be labeled gamers for whatever preconceived negative notion that is in their head. 

 

Yup. I said it. Go ahead and burn me at the stake. 

Correct.

[ThorinII]

I don't know. I've tried quite a few games since I created my first account in SL - and found all of them boring. Everything about them was like "meh" after a while: the pre-set routes you could go, the pre-set goals you had to meet, the pre-built content, the lack of actual interaction within the game (except with other players via Teamspeak): Not a single one of these games could fascinate me enough to even finish it.

Do I consider myself a gamer? No way. I'm a roleplayer, a resident, sometimes even a content creator within SL. But not a gamer. Some of my RL-friends who actually are gamers would buy a new game every month, while I spend my money on virtual land.  Them and me - we just live in different worlds of interest. There's nothing considered better or worse between us.

[Phil Deakins]

I didn't think I'd bother with this thread since its such a regular topic here. But I've nothing better to do right now so...

Whilst SL may be a game in some people's minds, it isn't actually a game, because, in itself, it has nothing of what a game actually has. A game has objectives and game rules. SL doesn't have either of those. Board games are games. Football and other field games are games. There are card games as well as many other types of game, including little games that people invent on the spot for themselves, but SL, in itself, isn't even remotely similar to any of them in terms of objectives and rules on how to play it, simply because it doesn't have any. SL is an online 3D place to be. And that's all it is. The only similarity SL has to some actual games is that it's a 3D world. But that's it. Nothing more.

Imagine SL as a brand new creation and open for the very first time. As chance would have it, you are the very first person to log in. What would you find? You'd probably look around to try and learn how to play this game, but you wouldn't find anything, because there isn't anything, except move around the place. There's nothing to actually do. You wouldn't find an objective to achieve, so you wouldn't find any rules about achieving it. Perhaps you'd think that it needs more than one player, so you wait until some more people log in, and you discuss what you need to be doing to play this game, but you come up with nothing, because there isn't anything. SL is a place, and that's all it is. Nothing more and nothing less. It's just a place.

Some people do make games for themselves within SL, but that's just people being creative. It's not SL itself. In a similar way, people could invent little games for themselves in a closed RL room, perhaps with a coin, just to pass the time. Some people think of SL as a game, because it looks a lot like some games they know, but that's just the way some people choose to think. It doesn't turn SL into a game.

SL is nothing more than an online 3D place in which to be. And that's all it is. What people make of it is entirely up to them. It allows people to create things, including games, and some people do that. Even LL did that (sort of) in more recent times. It allows people to run businesses, and some people do that. It allows people to race and fly, and all sorts of things, and some people do those. And so on. All of that is extra to SL itself, which remains nothing more than an online 3D place in which to be. It's people who come up with things to do in the SL place. It isn't SL itself.

Imagine coming into SL for the very first time, and you ask people, "How do I play this game?" or "What do I have to do here?" or "Are there levels I have to achieve?" and so on. Simply imagining asking those and similar questions, will show that SL is not an actual game.

Does anyone ever think, "I'm going to play SL now"? I doubt it. Instead we think, "I'm going to log in to SL now", or "I'm going to play <some game> in SL now", which are quite different.

Edited August 3, 2018 by Phil Deakins

[Love Zhaoying]

11 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

I didn't think I'd bother with this thread since its such a regular topic here. But I've nothing better to do right now so

This thread was boring enough already!

[Paul Hexem]

13 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

I didn't think I'd bother with this thread since its such a regular topic here. But I've nothing better to do right now so...

Whilst SL may be a game in some people's minds, it isn't actually a game, because, in itself, it has nothing of what a game actually has. A game has objectives and game rules. SL doesn't have either of those. Board games are games. Football and other field games are games. There are card games as well as many other types of game, including little games that people invent on the spot for themselves, but SL, in itself, isn't even remotely similar to any of them in terms of objectives and rules on how to play it, simply because it doesn't have any. SL is an online 3D place to be. And that's all it is. The only similarity SL has to some actual games is that it's a 3D world. But that's it. Nothing more.

Imagine SL as a brand new creation and open for the very first time. As chance would have it, you are the very first person to log in. What would you find? You'd probably look around and to learn how to play this game, but you wouldn't find anything, because there isn't anything, except move around the place. There's nothing to actually do. You wouldn't find an objective to achieve, so you wouldn't find any rules about achieving it. Perhaps you'd think that it needs more than one player, so you wait until some more people log in, and you discuss what you need to be doing to play this game, but you come up with nothing, because there isn't anything. SL is a place, and that's all it is. Nothing more and nothing less. It's just a place.

Some people do make games for themselves within SL, but that's just people being creative. It's not SL itself. In a similar way, people could invent little games for themselves in a closed RL room, perhaps with a coin, just to pass the time. Some people think of SL as a game, because it looks a lot like some games they know, but that's just the way some people choose to think. It doesn't turn SL into a game.

SL is nothing more than an online 3D place in which to be. And that's all it is. What people make of it is entirely up to them. It allows people create things, including games, and some people do that. Even LL did that (sort of) in more recent times. It allows people to run businesses, and some people do that. It allows people to race and fly, and all sorts of things, and some people do those. And so on. All of that is extra to SL itself, which remains nothing more than an online 3D place in which to be. It's people who come up with things to do in the SL place. It isn't SL itself.

Imagine coming into SL for the very first time, and you ask people, "How do I play this game?" or "What do I have to do here?" or "Are there levels I have to achieve?" and so on. Simply imagining asking those and similar questions, will show that SL is not an actual game.

Does anyone ever think, "I'm going to play SL now"? I doubt it. Instead we think, "I'm going to log in to SL now", or "I'm going to play <some game> in SL now", which are quite different.

...

You didn't read the actual thread, did you?

[Phil Deakins]

2 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

This thread was boring enough already!

I know, but I was on my first cup of tea of the day, and there was nothing of interest in my Unread Content, so I thought I'd pass a bit of time with this thread. I'm on my first coffee of the day now

Edited August 3, 2018 by Phil Deakins

[Sprout Evergarden]

I see Second life as Avatar chat with user creatable content that has been stretched beyond its original limits (i don't think LL ever imagined people would be Flying plane and Sailing boats in SL when they originally dreamed it up)

Edited August 3, 2018 by Atosuria Daviau

[Phil Deakins]

1 minute ago, Gadget Portal said:

...

You didn't read the actual thread, did you?

Most of it, no. Mainly just the Title.

[Paul Hexem]

2 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

Most of it, no. Mainly just the Title.

Yeah. Your post was a big swing and a miss.

[Phil Deakins]

Ok.