Health Care In US & UK,Differences Between Left-Right Views On It & Taxes,Capitalism VS Socialism,Abuse Of Power

[Coffee Pancake]

We should resolve this with pistols at 10 paces ... I would like to pick the UK as the venue, then the looser wont be faced with the additional humiliation of a hospital bill

[Phorumities]

3 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Religion is my other favorite topic...:)  Well...spirituality.

Maybe I just need to learn to ignore our resident Libertarian who constantly interjects his political views...not take the bait maybe? But he got me to thinking about some things I was trying to sort out....hence my conversation with him...and wanting it to continue in a polite manner.

its a sad commentary on our times when libertarian is considered a dirty word.

omg you believe in individual rights and responsibility? you must be some right wing nut

[KanryDrago]

Just now, CoffeeDujour said:

We should resolve this with pistols at 10 paces ... I would like to pick the UK as the venue, then the looser wont be faced with the additional humiliation of a hospital bill

Except possession of a pistol is illegal in the UK, may I suggest crossbows which are also more environmentally friendly?

[Luna Bliss]

3 minutes ago, KanryDrago said:

7 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

 

Of particular interest to me was how anyone could consider taxes as a theft...I don't get it.

If I threaten you and take half the money in your wallet because I am poorer than you that is theft

If the government threatens me (which it does via threat of jail time) and takes my money and give it to you because you are poorer than me it is taxation

many see a certain similarity the only real difference being we also have to pay some guy to take the money off us and give it to you

How should we help those who are disabled, or how should we fund the building of roads and such?

The thing is, most people are selfish and have trouble looking beyond their own needs, and so some force is needed. Hell even I get upset when I have to write a check for my estimated quarterly tax payment...I'm thinking I need this money for myself and wonder where it might be going to, or if I'd approve who it goes to.

[Coffee Pancake]

1 minute ago, KanryDrago said:

Except possession of a pistol is illegal in the UK, may I suggest crossbows which are also more environmentally friendly?

Lego bricks and bare feet ? Winner gets to keep the bricks.

[Luna Bliss]

1 minute ago, Phorumities said:

its a sad commentary on our times when libertarian is considered a dirty word.

omg you believe in individual rights and responsibility? you must be some right wing nut

There are individuals, and there are groups of individuals outside yourself (community)......both need to be considered.

I feel you only consider your own rights and not the rights/concerns of others, or at the very least believe you are the one who should determine what others need, when what we need is for laws (just laws) to determine this.

[KanryDrago]

1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said:

How should we help those who are disabled, or how should we fund the building of roads and such?

The thing is, most people are selfish and have trouble looking beyond their own needs, and so some force is needed. Hell even I get upset when I have to write a check for my estimated quarterly tax payment...I'm thinking I need this money for myself and wonder where it might be going to, or if I'd approve who it goes to.

Roads can be funded by tolls

While I agree the disabled need help the problem is that governments wish to fund far more than just the disabled to sit on their butts and there is far too wide a definition of disabled. The current uk stats claim for example 16% of working age adults are disabled. Does that seem credible to anyone (source https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/disability-facts-and-figures/disability-facts-and-figures)

[KanryDrago]

6 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said:

Lego bricks and bare feet ? Winner gets to keep the bricks.

Trebuchets at 500 paces?

[Luna Bliss]

1 minute ago, KanryDrago said:

6 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

How should we help those who are disabled, or how should we fund the building of roads and such?

The thing is, most people are selfish and have trouble looking beyond their own needs, and so some force is needed. Hell even I get upset when I have to write a check for my estimated quarterly tax payment...I'm thinking I need this money for myself and wonder where it might be going to, or if I'd approve who it goes to.

Roads can be funded by tolls

While I agree the disabled need help the problem is that governments wish to fund far more than just the disabled to sit on their butts and there is far too wide a definition of disabled. The current uk stats claim for example 16% of working age adults are disabled. Does that seem credible to anyone (source https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/disability-facts-and-figures/disability-facts-and-figures)

I have experience in Social Work and ties to those still in it, and there are indeed a lot of disabled people (in the US, and I can only assume the UK would be similar).

Here, it is very very hard to get on disability. Most are rejected. There are multiple tests. Even people with terminal cancer have to continue working.

I'm sure there are some lazy people who manage to con their way in, but should we deny help to all those who need it because of a few who manage to abuse the system?

[KanryDrago]

Just now, Luna Bliss said:

I have experience in Social Work and ties to those still in it, and there are indeed a lot of disabled people (in the US, and I can only assume the UK would be similar).

Here, it is very very hard to get on disability. Most are rejected. There are multiple tests. Even people with terminal cancer have to continue working.

I'm sure there are some lazy people who manage to con their way in, but should we deny help to all those who need it because of a few who manage to abuse the system?

In the UK governements of both left and right have used disability to remove people from unemployment statistics

[Luna Bliss]

1 minute ago, KanryDrago said:

In the UK governements of both left and right have used disability to remove people from unemployment statistics

Oh you mean so one side or the other can brag that they created more jobs than the other?

[Coffee Pancake]

For a while the UK GOVT paid ATOS to reassess people on disability and remove their benefit, almost all who took them to court won. End result .. the govt burnt a ton of cash on a private company and in the courts.

[KanryDrago]

1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said:

Oh you mean so one side or the other can brag that they created more jobs than the other?

So they can claim that unemployment is falling

[Phorumities]

12 minutes ago, KanryDrago said:

Except possession of a pistol is illegal in the UK, may I suggest crossbows which are also more environmentally friendly?

apparently there has recently been a rash of knife killings in London so they should really outlaw knives too

 

[KanryDrago]

Just now, CoffeeDujour said:

For a while the UK GOVT paid ATOS to reassess people on disability and remove their benefit, almost all who took them to court won. End result .. the govt burnt a ton of cash on a private company and in the courts.

While true you neglect to mention that a large number of "disabled" decided they were no longer disabled and didnt turn up once they knew they were to be assessed by someone other than their friendly family doctor

[Phorumities]

11 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

There are individuals, and there are groups of individuals outside yourself (community)......both need to be considered.

I feel you only consider your own rights and not the rights/concerns of others, or at the very least believe you are the one who should determine what others need, when what we need is for laws (just laws) to determine this.

as Margaret Thatcher once said, socialism is wonderful until you run out of other peoples money

[Ceka Cianci]

19 minutes ago, Phorumities said:

i respectfully request that the mods close this thread because it has nothing to do with second life and will only deteriorate into hate mongering, stereotyping, and name calling of the worst sort

*hey everyone needs a hobby*

Actually,this is the only section where you are allowed to discuss other things besides second life..

 

As far as the whole deteriorating thing? We'll just have to wait and see..

I've got my popcorn at the ready,just in case..

hehehehe

 

[Pandora Barzane]

this thread is great for populating my ignorelist.

 

[Coffee Pancake]

2 minutes ago, Phorumities said:

as Margaret Thatcher once said, socialism is wonderful until you run out of other peoples money

Margaret Thatcher is not fondly remembered in the UK.

[Luna Bliss]

4 minutes ago, Phorumities said:

16 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

There are individuals, and there are groups of individuals outside yourself (community)......both need to be considered.

I feel you only consider your own rights and not the rights/concerns of others, or at the very least believe you are the one who should determine what others need, when what we need is for laws (just laws) to determine this.

as Margaret Thatcher once said, socialism is wonderful until you run out of other peoples money

From some other stuff you've said I'm not sure you understand what socialism means.

But I consider myself a Democratic Socialist who considers both the rights of the individual and the rights of the community.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/dan-arel/5-ways-democratic-sociali_b_8876476.html

[KanryDrago]

Just now, CoffeeDujour said:

Margaret Thatcher is not fondly remembered in the UK.

That largely depends on who you talk to

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_rankings_of_Prime_Ministers_of_the_United_Kingdom

scroll down to the newsnight poll of 27000 to see where she is ranked

[Luna Bliss]

2 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said:

6 minutes ago, Phorumities said:

as Margaret Thatcher once said, socialism is wonderful until you run out of other peoples money

Margaret Thatcher is not fondly remembered in the UK.

Did she actually say there is no such thing as society? Never bothered to research that thoroughly.

[KanryDrago]

3 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Did she actually say there is no such thing as society? Never bothered to research that thoroughly.

It was a partial quote that the left like to use and needs to be viewed in the context in which it was used I suggest you find the speech and make your own mind up

 

https://www.thedailybeast.com/context-for-margaret-thatchers-there-is-no-such-thing-as-society-remarks

Edited July 18, 2018 by KanryDrago

[Cindy Evanier]

6 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said:

Margaret Thatcher is not fondly remembered in the UK.

that's an understatement if you come from Liverpool

[Luna Bliss]

I must go work on my RL yard before it gets too hot...is starting to look like I'm having a Lovecraft event...