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Should SL have a secondary 100% in game currency ?

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5 hours ago, Hintswen Guardian said:

I have one, but good luck finding a region to run it in.

Well, seeing as how it can be done this might make a nice little exercise in scripting for me.

Watch out for KTKoins!

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4 minutes ago, Phorumities said:

If I'm mistaken, LL will advise me of my transgressions.

given your known (and on top of that suspected, but Linden-confirmable if true) history of transgressions - I would really not count on that xD

 

EDIT: Shame on us! We kinda fell for her bait again ... 

Edited by Fionalein
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6 minutes ago, Phorumities said:

I'm saying its entirely LL's right to decide if I have crossed the line in some way.

I don't believe  I have.

If I'm mistaken, LL will advise me of my transgressions.

Last post to you on this topic because LL DOES take a dim view of two people arguing back and forth in a non productive manner.

Perhaps I should report you.

I wasn't arguing, I was asking you questions. The only way it wouldn't be productive is if you couldn't answer them.

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4 hours ago, Phorumities said:

I'm saying its entirely LL's right to decide if I have crossed the line in some way.

I don't believe  I have.

If I'm mistaken, LL will advise me of my transgressions.

Last post to you on this topic because LL DOES take a dim view of two people arguing back and forth in a non productive manner.

Perhaps I should report you.

"I shall do the thing till someone with greater authority tells me to stop, and then whine about it."

Sighs .. Linden clean up crew to isle 5, a baby vomited and a partially digested food fight has broken out.

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On 8/4/2018 at 10:38 AM, Alwin Alcott said:

so, you don't want to put any efford on it... just give it...

how on earth you think the people who DO buy L$ get the money for it?.... come from your lazy ass and work for it in SL or RL... nothing, really nothing comes for free.

There's "earning it" an then there's doing the same thing over and over and over until you go insane for pennies. It wouldn't be such an issue if the minigames weren't a pain to put up with at times.

It's faster to get to know someone on a personal level until they like you enough to get you nice things (which in itself takes a long time). It's kind of barmy. If you ALREADY have to do things in real life that take HOURS (and this includes OTHER things then having a job) then NO ONE is going to be able to sit there for 2 hours as they gain only about 20 lindens. You get LESS then a linden a minute. Do the math. If it had been at least 1L I'd probably do it. But less then that? Hell no! And no one is going to stand there clicking every minute on the dot either. I bet it's less then 1L to avoid "click bots". So it seems to circle back to bots being the problem again.

Earning it I don't mind. Warframe makes you play the game itself as EVERYONE ELSE plays it. Regardless of who pays or who does not. It's kept FAIR for everyone. Everyone does the same things and has a chance to get something at all times. Want plat? (the in game currency) Sell your hard earned items from missions for in game currency at a FAIR price. Which is actually decided by the players themselves and not the staff (and yes, SL market, but you still need to GET the lindens somehow). Somehow the system works. In game currency earned through actions (practically every action) traded for plat. Want plat quickly? Use real life money. You're still spending a few hours but the net gain feels more balanced out. It's still "less then if you paid" but you don't feel "cheated". There's a reason the game is praised so highly and it's for it's "Do many 0.1 credit actions and get plat while still having incentive to pay real money for said plat". Technically you gather certain in game items to trade. Which you can't do on SL market. And you get them everywhere. But the variety is so big and diverse it leaves room to trade for real money. So who knows, maybe SL could find a way to do something similar. "Many item drops but with trading for it". Not sure how that would work, it's just an idea. Maybe not even a possible one. But at least I'm THINKING about other ways instead of just complaining about "Boo hoo, too easy, too hard, too given". Plenty of games DO have ways to get stuff for so called "free". Money wise. But it's all bloody EARNED at the end of the day. It's all WORKED for.

Second Life can't do the same thing like warframe (I think. Technically possible but hell of hard to implement and balance). Thing is you don't actually go on missions on Second Life. However, a club event is LIKE a mission in another game. It's an ACTIVITY to get involved in. Where you have to put in EFFORT to get something. The same methods from warframe simply won't work on it. But there's club events and similar activities. Which, yes, you can get lindens from. But if someone puts in "a lot of work" and comes out empty handed when someone else wins "simply because they paid real life money to look better" then that's one sided. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Unlike with an in game trading system where you can exchange items without bias. No one cares about your avatar, they care about the items you present to them on the table that you worked hard to get. It's impossible to be bias unless you got a foul personality or something. You simply can't abuse a system like that. Which is what minigames are supposed to do, but come on, less then a linden a  minute? If it was more fun to do, sure. It if was just for a few hours to get a fair amount, sure. I play games for days and nights if it's kept engaging. But not "Click click click" (fishing) or "just run in circles with no other actions" (coin gathering). Warframe. You run, shoot, slide, hack, talk to LOTS of other people. For Honor: Run. Fight. Capture. Pause in the activity itself as you emote to each other. The key to keeping anything fun and engaging is variety. Variety with the "game types" themselves, yes, but ALSO variety in the game type inside of itself. How can you get more people to fish and gather coins while keeping it fun? Set a campfire at a spot? Host "fishing events" where people can chill and hang out, which by the way is NOT a thing? Fishing is supposed to be about "enjoying the time together" as well, is it not? It at least makes it less of a "chore". There's a difference between "work" and "chore". You can "earn it without being too bored" or "Get depressed because there's no happiness in the job".

Although some clubs do care about personality over "just how you look for the event". Being the life of the party and all. Provided you look "fit for the event". I however can stand in the middle without fear and "work to be the life of the party". But it's not exactly... easy to do for a lot of people. I can be "that energetic". A lot of people in this day and age feel "too drained". Due to things like depression and mental illness being on the rise (in general as much as on SL). Me included sometimes. Somehow I manage though. Makes me think about people that can't "gather the energy". But at least it keeps others involved as well when you're getting them involved. That's why I win at club events a lot of the time. Unlike some others, I care about the people first. Lindens simply happen to follow suit. And I'm saying it straight. if more people focused more on PEOPLE before lindens SL would be better for it. Once you start putting yourself over "everyone else" people stop having respect for you because you don't respect them. "You matter too". Simple as. Some people get so desperate that they focus ONLY on the lindens. Which makes them NOT get the lindens. Know what I'm saying? In some ways I feel sorry for them, in other ways they bring it on themselves. Either way SL suffers for it. It's making it a less attractive environment for many. And all because everyone is being ONE SIDED. Paying people want people to pay, free people want ***** for free. Please try to compromise and don't act like the current system is perfect when it's not. There's always room for improvement when you put your mind to it. But how many even try, eh? How many get fixated on "Your current idea won't work, forget it altogether"? BOTH sides need to think outside the box.

Sadly I haven't seen club events happening as often as they used too. So even that isn't being "earned" so much these days. I remember back when clubs were hosting the pratically every day. And minigames are simply too much of a chore. That's being OVER worked at times. Sure, if something costs 50L it's possible and not too much to do, but maybe someone has their heart set on something that costs 2000L that they want to even give as a gift to someone else. By warframe standards I can get the equivalent of that in a week if I "work my ass off". By second Life standards it's probably going to take a month if not longer without club events (which can't be guaranteed). That doesn't mean it's "easy" by warframe standards. You still have to work your ass off. But can also have that variation, you know. That reminds me, Joysticks on SL streams games. I should look into that. Since I know I'm good on youtube vids and have high energy in games it's entertaining enough for others to watch. There we go, another current SL idea. Now I just need to figure out what games to show. Which is different then what to "just play". Sometimes it's more fun to play then it is to watch and vice versa.

I don't mind "working for it". But I DO mind "spending too much time in my personal life". I say this as a free to play gamer that's used to "working for it". When it's FAIR then it's a none issue. But pal, 0.1 L every minute with no variety, conversation or fun is anything but. The system FORCES the games to stop being fun if you need to rely on the games. You do too much of the same thing over and over. But that's not a fault of the players alone. Linden Labs has to accept their share of the responsibility for designing the system in a way that it's stopped being fun too. Maybe it's just the change of times which makes the older games less appealing which now needs an "update" or a "reboot". Perhaps they just need "spicing up". Not just in terms of the games themselves but with ways to keep people engaged to "play for fun". Like how you can play another computer game "just for fun" instead of doing objectives. Even some FPS games can be like that. Stop shooting, have a chat, mess around. Likely why SL is even a thing in the first place. So ideas from other games that are completely different are proven to work because of this alone.

Flesh and Fur also suffers from people "having to abuse the system for lindens". Along with other places. And I doubt any of us want SL to be full of people "just using people for lindens without caring about the person". Unfortunately that happens. So it's a rather grey matter. On the one hand there needs to be a fair way to do that. Which is why club events are perfect for this. You have to "interact with people". And I say that as a big introvert. So you know I'm not biased in saying that. There's a very important thing that people using SL for lindens lose sight about. And that's that they'd probably get more lindens if they stopped being so selfish. Just as selfish and greedy as some people that "pay real money and brag about it". Money is only one form of currency. Pay back in DEEDS and ACTION. By "being there". Naturally some people might have concerns about being abandoned if they run out of lindens or have no easy access to it. I get around that issue quite easily. "work for each other in anything none linden related as well so we know we trust each other". Simple enough. If nothing else maybe you find out you both have talents that you can put into action together which makes money when you couldn't do it on your own. It happens.

One thing I think we can all agree on is that no matter what side of the fence you're on we need the passion in it all.

Edited by Taramafor

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Your premise is flawed from the first, even if we ignore the "I want to be paid for irritating people side"

The difference between SL and a game such as warframe is that currency here can be cashed out to real world currency. 

If for example your idea was implemented and users generated between all of them 1,000,000 lindens a day or the equivalent worth then that costs (1,000,000/2500 )x(approx) 10 us$. Don't worry I will do the maths for you 4000us$ a day, about 120,000 us$ a month, 1,440,000 million us$ a year.

But my currency can't be cashed out I hear you say only used towards tier or buying things. Any used on tier means its converted into linden as lindens aren't spent on tier or buying things and are available to cash out.

Now the other thing you may argue is users wouldnt generate 1,000,000 lindens worth a day

So lets look at that with some deliberately low ball park figures

I gather from what you say you want to generate worthwhile amounts for a user so lets call it 100l$ per hour logged on. Assume an average user logs on for 2 hours. We can therefore get a rough feel for how many users this covers by multiplying the average concurrency ( about 40,000) by 12 ( which is the 24 hour day divided by the average 2 hour log on period)

So for users we get 40000 x 12 = 480,000

for linden generated per user we get 100 x 2 ( for the 2 hour period) = 200

therefore for total linden generation we get a figure of  480,000 x 200 = 96,000,000 hmmm seems like my 1,000,000 a day was genererously low doesn't it now

This means that rerunning the figures with the new amount the following amounts in us$ would be in effect removed from the second life economy either by people buying less lindens or from cashing out lindens they no longer need to use

daily 384,000

monthly 11,520,000

yearly 140,160,000

Now therefore to make your idea fly and not bankrupt the labs you would either need to reduce the amount earnt per user by a factor of probably at least 100 so 1 linden$ per hour per user or severely reduce the number of earning users. As everyone is earning by doing activities in your scenario you are in effect needing to reduce the population of SL to 1% of its current size

 

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