Coffee Pancake Posted July 19, 2018 Author Share Posted July 19, 2018 Everything is a grind, getting good at a game, learning a skill, going to work in the morning, American "chocolate" ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parhelion Palou Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 There's no way LL would modify most of SL's code just to do GEMS. Sansar is a long way from finished. You should suggest GEMS for Sansar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phorumities Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 I can't wait for gems and my 1% discount on my tier for collecting x number of gems. I pay 35 dollars a month in tier, so that works out to.... omfg 35 cents. Now I really can't wait... can we please please please have gems asap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Pancake Posted July 19, 2018 Author Share Posted July 19, 2018 27 minutes ago, Parhelion Palou said: There's no way LL would modify most of SL's code just to do GEMS. Sansar is a long way from finished. You should suggest GEMS for Sansar. That is a misconception .. the easy part is adding the currency .. a database table and duplication of existing proven infrastructure. It would be way easier than any of LL's current projects. Working out the balance between sources and useful, meaningful sinks would be much harder and require a little time in a spreadsheet and a careful balancing. The sinks are the complicated part, pumping more GEMS into the system is easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Huntsman Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 May I ask one question, why should no one have a decision if they want to be a part of this or not? Like should each resident have a choice to be a part of it, or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Pancake Posted July 19, 2018 Author Share Posted July 19, 2018 There would be no point. It would be like opting out of prim head cubes. If you don't want one .. don't put a cube on your head and carry on regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phorumities Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 4 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said: There would be no point. It would be like opting out of prim head cubes. If you don't want one .. don't put a cube on your head and carry on regardless. I'm pretty sure you didn't mention opting out. Every time you say hello in local, another gem will be added to your total. Just imagine the lag when you teleport, carrying millions of unused and unwanted gems around with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Pancake Posted July 19, 2018 Author Share Posted July 19, 2018 48 minutes ago, Phorumities said: I'm pretty sure you didn't mention opting out. Every time you say hello in local, another gem will be added to your total. Just imagine the lag when you teleport, carrying millions of unused and unwanted gems around with you. That's .. not how any of this works. But please, feel free to send me all your heavy lag inducing L$. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parhelion Palou Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 2 hours ago, CoffeeDujour said: That is a misconception .. the easy part is adding the currency .. a database table and duplication of existing proven infrastructure. It would be way easier than any of LL's current projects. Working out the balance between sources and useful, meaningful sinks would be much harder and require a little time in a spreadsheet and a careful balancing. The sinks are the complicated part, pumping more GEMS into the system is easy. You mentioned people getting GEMS for chatting in local ... that means a process has to monitor every local conversation in SL to determine whether to award GEMS. If GEMS could be given for IMs, LL would have to monitor those as well. You've been giving out GEMS for about every activity in SL, which means there would have to be code to spot that activity and award GEMS. That's a huge undertaking. Hmm, perhaps LL could monetize this after all. Since they'll know what everyone's been doing they can collect the data, add an advertising channel to viewers, then sell targeted ads. It works for Google ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Pancake Posted July 19, 2018 Author Share Posted July 19, 2018 You are aware that there is zero direct communication between viewers? That all data is sent via LL servers .. they already know everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parhelion Palou Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said: You are aware that there is zero direct communication between viewers? That all data is sent via LL servers .. they already know everything. They have the data but they're not paying attention to it. Things like location information likely hit the bit bucket rapidly once you've moved on. They keep the chat logs for awhile, but for AR (and law enforcement) purposes. What if you wanted only certain types of conversations to be worth GEMS? LL would have to parse everyone's chat to determine if it's the right sort of conversation. With GEMS they'd have to be watching everything you do to see if you're doing something that's worth awarding a GEM. One way to offset the cost of all that code is to add advertising to SL. You'd be famous ... or infamous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoiraKathleen Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 If gems were to be awarded simply for chatting in local or in IM's (whether I'm talking to myself or to other avatars) then the incrementing of an account's gem balance could be added to the existing processing that happens when the 'send' button is clicked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Huntsman Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Now that I am reading what other people say, I would have to say that in that sense. The algorithms, and the AI that would be used, it would be practically the same as YouTube's algorithms. But I don't think people would agree with this NSA type conversation monitoring, just gor GEMS. So there is one big flaw, I don't need them monitoring everything I say, just so I could earn a GEM or two. I enjoy my privacy, and I don't want to lose it, over a system like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parhelion Palou Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, moirakathleen said: If gems were to be awarded simply for chatting in local or in IM's (whether I'm talking to myself or to other avatars) then the incrementing of an account's gem balance could be added to the existing processing that happens when the 'send' button is clicked. Sorry to drop this in as a response to your post, Moira. It's a shortcut so I can get to sleep. True, but still new code. Little bits of new code all over the place and the infrastructure to connect all the pieces. The original post mentioned GEMS given out for meeting minimum activity requirements, so code needed to check for login/logout times to determine if the requirement is met then award GEMS. GEMS given out for existing LInden mini games, so code changes there. GEMS given out for forum posts that gain reputation ... that might take some doing. GEMS for completion of basic platform educational achievements such as creating your first prim, adding your first profile picture -- code changes (including database changes) for all of that. Also "almost anything really" ... that sounds like infinite code changes. ;-) On the sink side, reduction of tier payments for GEMS returned to LL ... definitely some code changes there. Promoted positioning for location in search etc., texture & mesh uploads -- still busy adding code. There's also something for residents exchanging GEMS, including LSL changes ... more code. This is like all the other ideas such as regulating gachas, having a legal system to deal with bans, etc. Fun to talk about but they're not going to happen. I'd rather LL got EEP out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Pancake Posted July 19, 2018 Author Share Posted July 19, 2018 6 minutes ago, halebore Aeon said: Now that I am reading what other people say, I would have to say that in that sense. The algorithms, and the AI that would be used, it would be practically the same as YouTube's algorithms. But I don't think people would agree with this NSA type conversation monitoring, just gor GEMS. So there is one big flaw, I don't need them monitoring everything I say, just so I could earn a GEM or two. I enjoy my privacy, and I don't want to lose it, over a system like this. Why would they need to monitor what you said? (you really might want to read this ... https://www.lindenlab.com/privacy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callum Meriman Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 21 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said: Why would they need to monitor what you said? (you really might want to read this ... https://www.lindenlab.com/privacy) How do you stop 100, 1000, 10000, 100000, 1000000 bots talking to each other? All earning gems that get sent to their botmaster? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Pancake Posted July 19, 2018 Author Share Posted July 19, 2018 15 minutes ago, Callum Meriman said: How do you stop 100, 1000, 10000, 100000, 1000000 bots talking to each other? All earning gems that get sent to their botmaster? You don't. But you do make it so registered bots don't earn anything, add a ToS rule about bots that farming GEMS and send in the clowns .. I mean us .. and the ban hammers. A reward unjustly farmed is a solid motivation for us to do the leg work of finding and reporting "cheats" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callum Meriman Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 (edited) 36 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said: A reward unjustly farmed is a solid motivation for us to do the leg work of finding and reporting "cheats" I have a bot farm in my locked-down homestead. Even if I wasn't doing it that way, sending two bots into a random sim to "talk" to each other is pretty low profile. So, that rules out people being stasi. Hueristically the lab could likely detect weird logins, but then on the other hand, maybe they can't. 'system':{'address_size':i64,'cpu':'Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-6700K CPU @ 4.00GHz (4200.25 MHz)', 'gpu':'NVIDIA Class 5 NVIDIA Corporation GeForce GTX 1070/PCIe/SSE2', 'gpu_class':i5,'gpu_vendor':'NVIDIA','gpu_version':'NVIDIA 390.48', 'mac_address':'42-ff-2c-c1-22-42','opengl_version':'4.6.0 NVIDIA 390.48', 'os':'Linux 4.15','ram':i16362812, 'serial_number':'cffa344fdf5aa6219d9711d16933db81','shader_level':i5} ^ isn't hard to fake. Edited July 19, 2018 by Callum Meriman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qie Niangao Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 3 hours ago, CoffeeDujour said: You don't. But you do make it so registered bots don't earn anything, add a ToS rule about bots that farming GEMS and send in the clowns .. I mean us .. and the ban hammers. A reward unjustly farmed is a solid motivation for us to do the leg work of finding and reporting "cheats" The Lab won't even enforce the years-old scripted agents rule, so there are boxes of traffic bots in plain sight all over the grid, reported by residents over and over. (My perennial example: http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Sylvia/181/250/207 .) If GEMs have any value at all, and if there's any possible way for residents to trade them (and hence, sell for L$s), they'll be farmed much more than they'll be earned by legitimate activity. Which reminds me: Did I miss the part of this thread where somebody brought up SL's illustrious DATA_RATING precendent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Hexem Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 9 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said: The Lab won't even enforce the years-old scripted agents rule, so there are boxes of traffic bots in plain sight all over the grid, reported by residents over and over. (My perennial example: http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Sylvia/181/250/207 .) If GEMs have any value at all, and if there's any possible way for residents to trade them (and hence, sell for L$s), they'll be farmed much more than they'll be earned by legitimate activity. Which reminds me: Did I miss the part of this thread where somebody brought up SL's illustrious DATA_RATING precendent? Bingo. Just look at Blizzard games. Any and all repetitive actions are botted, and no matter what they do, they can't stop it. If Blizzard can't stop bots, LL won't be able to, either. Especially with open source viewers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phorumities Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 6 hours ago, Parhelion Palou said: They have the data but they're not paying attention to it. Things like location information likely hit the bit bucket rapidly once you've moved on. They keep the chat logs for awhile, but for AR (and law enforcement) purposes. What if you wanted only certain types of conversations to be worth GEMS? LL would have to parse everyone's chat to determine if it's the right sort of conversation. With GEMS they'd have to be watching everything you do to see if you're doing something that's worth awarding a GEM. One way to offset the cost of all that code is to add advertising to SL. You'd be famous ... or infamous. While they are at it, they could set a list of forbidden words to monitor, and give you an instant suspension every time you said one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cykarushb Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Every single game that does this, it fails. It's botted, muled, abused and eventually just gets inflated so it's worthless. all a secondary free currency would do is cause people to complain that their currency is worthless 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phorumities Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 (edited) 20 minutes ago, cykarushb said: Every single game that does this, it fails. It's botted, muled, abused and eventually just gets inflated so it's worthless. all a secondary free currency would do is cause people to complain that their currency is worthless maybe they can use them to tip adult entertainment workers i can see the signs outside the venues now "any one attempting to tip our employees in gems will be banned" Edited July 19, 2018 by Phorumities changed a word Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Huntsman Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 9 hours ago, CoffeeDujour said: Why would they need to monitor what you said? (you really might want to read this ... https://www.lindenlab.com/privacy) Well your one point mentioned engagement, and how we interacted with people in IM's and local. Wouldn't they have to monitor that, so we would meet our minimum requirement? I get the TOS, but the way you stated it. That would totally change, they would need to change, for the new currency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Pancake Posted July 19, 2018 Author Share Posted July 19, 2018 1 hour ago, halebore Aeon said: Well your one point mentioned engagement, and how we interacted with people in IM's and local. Wouldn't they have to monitor that, so we would meet our minimum requirement? I get the TOS, but the way you stated it. That would totally change, they would need to change, for the new currency. The code that handles chat relays your messages about without needing to know what is being said. Actually parsing your words would be silly. 6 hours ago, Gadget Portal said: Bingo. Just look at Blizzard games. Any and all repetitive actions are botted, and no matter what they do, they can't stop it. If Blizzard can't stop bots, LL won't be able to, either. Especially with open source viewers. Drop rates, caps, gating and variety. Simple interactions result in a tiny reward with a low daily cap. Gate higher rewards behind more complicated content. Scripting a bot to talk all day is trivial, scripting a bot to play the Horizons mini game .. not so much (that would be actually impressive) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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