Phorumities Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 3 hours ago, LittleMe Jewell said: Possibly because in RL we gave everyone a Participation trophy in everything imaginable just for showing up (in the US, at least) in America today you get a high school diploma just for showing up and not killing anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Huntsman Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 (edited) I honestly think, that we should leave well enough alone. Like I get the idea, but the thing is. It's totally flawed. That and how you pitched it, made it seem like you would like LL to treat us like little kids. Example, oh you went to bed. Here is a prize for that. Same implementation, a reward system that will ultimately get exploited, and rewards people for innane things. That and you want more grid engagement, why don't you do it yourself? Why force people to do it, with the ideal of getting a prize. Ooh I interacted with another avatar, outside of my circle. I get a GEM today. Humans have become so heavily reliant on feeling like they are entitled to get a prize, for something that you actually have to do, or if you do something that is out of your comfort zone. Not everyone uses the forums, not everyone will want to interact with other avatars, not everyone wants to build, not everyone wants to upload textures. So by doing that, it will make people feel like, they have to do it. Because of the fact, that there is a prize awaiting them. It will turn SL into something that is not very individualistic, but create and foster this hive mind idea. Than you will get people, who will be complete dicks. Making others feel inferior, for not wanting to do it. I have seen that happen, with Mesh, Fitted Mesh, and Bento. I really don't see microtransactions in SL, as a great idea. Since we all know, that they will have "GEM" trading kiosks. I never liked microtransactions in the first place, nor will I like them here. It will actually make me want to leave SL. Edited July 17, 2018 by halebore Aeon Forgot to add something. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quinn Lysette Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 On 7/15/2018 at 12:24 PM, CoffeeDujour said: Should second life have a secondary currency that can not be bought or sold for real USD? Lets call them GEMS with L$ as the premium currency. GEMS are in addition to the existing L$ economy. There should be no way to directly purchase GEMS from LL. X's are use to give an indication of scale, not to denote specific amounts. X Individual, XX tens of, XXX hundreds of .. etc Linden based sources (Getting GEMS) The number of GEMS issued doesn't need to be large. All residents are given XX GEMS a week providing they meet minimum activity requirements. Log in X hours, move about, communicate etc. (Bots get nothing). Premium members get XXX GEMS a week Existing Linden mini games (Horizons etc) Positive participation in the community (Forum posts that gain reputation) Completion of basic platform educationalo achievements. XX for creating your first prim. XX for adding your first profile picture Use of testing viewers on the beta grid. Almost anything really. Linden sinks (Spending GEMS) The cost of Linden rewards/items/etc in GEMS can be quite high as they have zero value outside of SL. Their real value is the inter-resident participation, engagement and platform use they bring. 1% reduction on a months Teir payment for every XXX GEMS returned to LL Promoted positioning for a location in search, marketplace or classified listing. (XXX) Texture or mesh uploads Special rewards or limited access to premium perks Resident to resident sinks A little reward can go a long way. Residents can exchange GEMS between each other in the same was as L$, this includes offering scripted interfaces, vendors, selling time and services, everything they do with L$ now. Rewarding visitors to your parcel or event, or for playing your game. For joining your group. For placing your location in their picks. Business that need a resident source of GEMS to fund rewards can sell some items they currently charge L$ for or would give away. Sell regular content for XXXXX GEMS First one to XXXXXXX GEMS Gaming with GEMS .. probably isn't covered under gambling rules. The benefit to residents depends a lot on their time spent in SL. New users can use them as a way to get started, participate in SL and getting exposure to exchanging a currency for content and participation. Established L$ using residents can burn them reducing teir, getting a few free textures a week or promoting their interests. There will be a desire to spend them, which invariably will involve doing something. i say NO and the lindens should BAN all currency from bein withdrawn out to bank accounts thats promoting to much ilegal activitys like prostitution and other type things involvin webcams and such i have been reporting all ppl that are charging lindens for sexual activitys of all kinda including the ilegal kind but because of that some places have banned me cuz the evil doer is friends with the owners of the places where they do there ilegal busness 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Pancake Posted July 17, 2018 Author Share Posted July 17, 2018 15 minutes ago, Quinn Lysette said: i say NO and the lindens should BAN all currency from bein withdrawn out to bank accounts thats promoting to much ilegal activitys like prostitution and other type things involvin webcams and such i have been reporting all ppl that are charging lindens for sexual activitys of all kinda including the ilegal kind but because of that some places have banned me cuz the evil doer is friends with the owners of the places where they do there ilegal busness ... and people say my little idea would crash the SL economy. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellestones Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 (edited) 11 hours ago, Qie Niangao said: Thanks. I think I'm just not wired for GEMs. I played Linden Realms a few times when it first came out, went to the Cornfield and Horizons once each, and otherwise play no games outside Second Life, so maybe that's why I'm not grokking the whole concept of game reward tokens. Heck, I can't even put up with gachas -- too game-like for my patience -- so I'm pretty much resigned to never understanding any of this. my own personal wants aside i think the main thing with gameplay tokens is that other dimensions are opened up the one that may interest LL is a new income stream from the sale of gameplay tokens/GEMs is lots of existing games in SL that could add tokenised play. All of the existing table and board games for example. Other things also like combat arenas, yatch races, golf, skeet, bowling, etc when or if so and piles and piles of tokens/GEMs end up in the hands of people then the question for them is what do I do with all these. I think that after a time then token-to-play devices will start to pop up. Places like fairgrounds, roleplay markets, coffee shops, etc. 1 GEM for coffee, 2 GEMs for a train ride, 3 GEMs for a food basket in a roleplay market, etc the way things work in SL at the moment is activities are pretty much free. When SL activities are L$ monetarised then in the main they tend to be unsuccessful. The question for me: Is there a middle path and how might that be done. I think Coffee's posit for GEMs as that path has merit i think also if GEMs were tied into the Grid-wide Experience framework as an option for device makers and LL were able to create a new income stream from this, it would be a good thing overall Edited July 18, 2018 by ellestones aside Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Huntsman Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 I really don't know, I could see a lot of stuff that could be exploited with that system. As any system can and usually are exploited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Pancake Posted July 18, 2018 Author Share Posted July 18, 2018 The Lab has always had an issue with getting people involved with and participating in their own builds, many of which serve to demo or explore new tools or ideas, which is why some of them offer small cash rewards for playing. The point of Linden builds isn't just to create content or provide an activity, it's to showcase an idea that we can then explore and extrapolate. Of course getting us in the door is a real challenge. I would advise anyone interested in created interactive areas to play these mini games, Horizons for one has some parts that work well, some that fail in execution and some that are just terrible. But all are a time saver if you have building this content as an interest, knowing what just isn't going to work based on an example is really solid information. The problem is that almost no one has bothered to play it though and LL felt basically forced to offer a cash incentive, which because it's cash .. is pathetically small and ineffective. 7 minutes ago, halebore Aeon said: I really don't know, I could see a lot of stuff that could be exploited with that system. As any system can and usually are exploited. That would almost be the point. As GEMS would have limited recoverable value as part of a cash transaction with LL (eg teir discount), and you would need stacks of them to claim it .. it can for all intents and purposes rain GEMS. We're going to game every system we can, we always have. So make that part of the fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellestones Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 3 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said: We're going to game every system we can, we always have. So make that part of the fun. yes when I used to play the fun money rebuy tournaments on PKR it was crazy fun. I used to play on there because 3D. In the first hour it was unlimited rebuys and when at a table where everyone has zillion chip bankrolls it was mayhem. Allin, rebuy. Allin. rebuy. rebuy. rebuy. 1000 chips at a time. Allin, allin and people clicking the emote buttons like crazy and laughing and saying stuff in the chat at the first rest break then sometimes have over 100,000 stack. Then because no more rebuys after the break then everyone settle down and try to win from there sometimes people playing in the unlimited rebuys for the first time would get a bit upset at this behaviour. They were advised by the other players to chill out and if this activity is not for you then play in the no-rebuy tournaments as you point out, when tokens can't be cashed out then the incentives to exploit are a whole lot less than they are for real money. People do change their behaviour from the norm tho (like in the unlimited rebuy situation for example) but thats kinda normal as well. Adjusting to the situation we are in, and let it rain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Huntsman Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 Well that's the thing, your original forum post stated that we would be literally giving GEMS(Goldstars) for just logging in. That would turn into a chore, if you really wanted to get on and recieve those GEMS. That and the whole engagement thing, how would you want people to engage? I think my big concern is, that people will want to juice the system. IE they feel they are entitled to get GEMS, for the smallest trivial thing possible. That is my biggest concern, it will literally turn into as I said. The Gold star and chart dilemma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoiraKathleen Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 11 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said: As GEMS would have limited recoverable value as part of a cash transaction with LL (eg teir discount), and you would need stacks of them to claim it .. it can for all intents and purposes rain GEMS. I'm having a hard time understanding what the point or the benefit of these GEMS would be. Is the purpose to get more people involved in social activity and interaction with others? If they can't be used for buying things, then I don't see this replacing the need for the fishing or coin games (or linden realms) which some people currently play to earn lindens for purchasing things. I'm pretty certain that I would not become more social or interact more with others just to collect GEMS, with or without them having a recoverable value. I am pretty good at talking with myself though, so I suppose if talking in local chat or in a group was required to earn them, I could talk to myself in local as I travel around or talk in my land group 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parhelion Palou Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 The GEMS system, if it ever came to be, should require opting into it (or at least being able to opt out). If not, it had better be possible to delete the things. If people want to use the system that's fine, but it shouldn't be forced on those who don't. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 33 minutes ago, moirakathleen said: I'm having a hard time understanding what the point or the benefit of these GEMS would be. Is the purpose to get more people involved in social activity and interaction with others? When I want to interact with others, I use social capital. I can make it myself and some of you seem to value it, but the kind you folks make is so much better. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qie Niangao Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 5 hours ago, Madelaine McMasters said: When I want to interact with others, I use social capital. I can make it myself and some of you seem to value it, but the kind you folks make is so much better. Yeah, see, that's your problem. You're still using the in-world tools for building your quaint old timey social capital, when the market has shifted to the more sophisticated, highly-polished social products you can only create in standalone tools. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Pancake Posted July 18, 2018 Author Share Posted July 18, 2018 8 hours ago, Parhelion Palou said: The GEMS system, if it ever came to be, should require opting into it (or at least being able to opt out). If not, it had better be possible to delete the things. If people want to use the system that's fine, but it shouldn't be forced on those who don't. Why would you be forced to use them .. they would quietly accumulate as you did stuff, just an extra number totting up on the top bar or your client. I'm sure sooner or later a use for them would pop up .. even if that use is bragging rights or a silly bet. 8 hours ago, moirakathleen said: I'm having a hard time understanding what the point or the benefit of these GEMS would be. Is the purpose to get more people involved in social activity and interaction with others? If they can't be used for buying things, then I don't see this replacing the need for the fishing or coin games (or linden realms) which some people currently play to earn lindens for purchasing things. The purpose is to get people doing things .. those things can be defined by LL or by residents with GEMS to burn. Some of the freeby economy might move over to GEMS as store owners will always have a use for them .. be it rewarding visitors or improving their profitability by shaving a little off their biggest L$ expenses. Which way people go would be up to them. Creating meaningful sinks and working out the 8 hours ago, moirakathleen said: I'm pretty certain that I would not become more social or interact more with others just to collect GEMS, with or without them having a recoverable value. I am pretty good at talking with myself though, so I suppose if talking in local chat or in a group was required to earn them, I could talk to myself in local as I travel around or talk in my land group You're not going to ever feel "I should say something so I get a GEM" .. but if walking about talking to yourself made you happy and you don't do it enough already, that's a win ? I guess .. 8 hours ago, Madelaine McMasters said: When I want to interact with others, I use social capital. I can make it myself and some of you seem to value it, but the kind you folks make is so much better. Which obviously has a value to those you know that money can't buy. A rando shows up at your home .. do you say "Hi" or eject and ban? A tiny reward for either one of you saying something might be all it takes to occasionally shift the balance .. even if that shift comes in the form of Rando McBadpants using local chat rather than intruding with an IM. Reward mechanics do work, the reward doesn't have to be much, but it does have to exist. You don't even have to consciously accept that it was a reward or that you even cared about getting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talligurl Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 How would a secondary currency help support Linden Labs? I cannot afford to buy Lindens, so I find ways to make them in world so I can buy pretty things. Every Linden I make however had to be bought by someone, and that makes money in the real world to help pay for servers and such. If I was earning Gems, that never brought in money to the Labs then they would have to find other ways to pay the bills. Probably by requiring everyone to have a Premium membership, so the population goes down overall, and the place is less appealing to those left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Huntsman Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 2 hours ago, CoffeeDujour said: Why would you be forced to use them .. they would quietly accumulate as you did stuff, just an extra number totting up on the top bar or your client. I'm sure sooner or later a use for them would pop up .. even if that use is bragging rights or a silly bet. But still it should be a program we opt into or not, kinda like premium. That and where is the profit in GEMS, if you can't buy them, and they are literally rewarded for simple tasks. LL needs to make money, this new currency would lose them money. So if people want to be in it, it should be by choice only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KanryDrago Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 3 hours ago, CoffeeDujour said: The purpose is to get people doing things .. those things can be defined by LL or by residents with GEMS to burn. Some of the freeby economy might move over to GEMS as store owners will always have a use for them .. be it rewarding visitors or improving their profitability by shaving a little off their biggest L$ expenses. Which way people go would be up to them. By and large I suspect people in world are doing exactly what they wish to do currently. From your statement your problem is that they are however not doing what you think they should be doing. Perhaps before proposing a solution you should start by getting people to agree that there is a problem in the first place. Personally I don't see why people for example only hanging with their friends is an issue. Nor do I see them not wishing to talk in local being an issue. If people want to meet strangers they can. The fact they don't probably should lead us to assume that they don't actually wish to. Why then should we wish to try and make them do something they don't really want to. It would just lead to the following scenario random1: Hi random 2 random2: erm why are you imming me random1: oh just getting my talk to a stranger gem for the day bye random2: I feel so special now 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Huntsman Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 2 hours ago, KanryDrago said: By and large I suspect people in world are doing exactly what they wish to do currently. From your statement your problem is that they are however not doing what you think they should be doing. Perhaps before proposing a solution you should start by getting people to agree that there is a problem in the first place. Personally I don't see why people for example only hanging with their friends is an issue. Nor do I see them not wishing to talk in local being an issue. If people want to meet strangers they can. The fact they don't probably should lead us to assume that they don't actually wish to. Why then should we wish to try and make them do something they don't really want to. It would just lead to the following scenario random1: Hi random 2 random2: erm why are you imming me random1: oh just getting my talk to a stranger gem for the day bye random2: I feel so special now That is a very good point, it would estrange a lot of people from other people. So why force this interaction onto people? Why do you need the gratification, of interacting with people? GEMS turns it into a chore, and would do the opposite of what you want it to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KanryDrago Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, halebore Aeon said: That is a very good point, it would estrange a lot of people from other people. So why force this interaction onto people? Why do you need the gratification, of interacting with people? GEMS turns it into a chore, and would do the opposite of what you want it to. Shrugs in addition to SL I also partake in a few online games. All forums have a current post type at some point poster that really liked doing x : People would enjoy the game more if they did x its really fun, this idea should be implemented to encourage/force more people to do x 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Huntsman Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 39 minutes ago, KanryDrago said: Shrugs in addition to SL I also partake in a few online games. All forums have a current post type at some point poster that really liked doing x : People would enjoy the game more if they did x its really fun, this idea should be implemented to encourage/force more people to do x Yeah well at least she is putting her idea out there, which I respect her for that. I just feel that it would cause more problems, than it would be beneficial. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klytyna Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 1 hour ago, KanryDrago said: All forums have a current post type at some point poster that really liked doing x : People would enjoy the game more if they did x its really fun, this idea should be implemented to encourage/force more people to do x I could name two here and now on this forum... One seems amazed that people would rather do "boring stuff like shop, socialise and roleplay" than shoot each other with prim arrows... The other cannot accept that some people do NOT want to join the Kama City chapter of the "Sons of Stupidity Outlaw MC"... Now we add a third who thinks we should all use crappy experimental non rlva beta viewers and randomly chatspam strangers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellestones Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 4 hours ago, halebore Aeon said: Yeah well at least she is putting her idea out there, which I respect her for that. I just feel that it would cause more problems, than it would be beneficial. positing ideas is I think always a good thing yes. Then running thru the pros and cons of an idea, how might it work, how might it not, what are the benefits if any, who if anyone benefits, etc, is also good 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Pancake Posted July 18, 2018 Author Share Posted July 18, 2018 Every idea is going to have positives and negatives, people who like, people who don't ... and at least it's not politics 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Huntsman Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 14 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said: Every idea is going to have positives and negatives, people who like, people who don't ... and at least it's not politics Yeah I saw that on the forums, and just ignored that post all together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikka Luik Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 21 hours ago, CoffeeDujour said: We're going to game every system we can, we always have. So make that part of the fun. OK then - show me the fun part (grind grind sigh). Oh unless can make others do that boring bit and skim off? Ah wait - no monetary i forgot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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