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Anyone think it would be good if there ever was a court system in sl to handle stuff like group bans?


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I swear, we need a forum just for people who have been butthurt-banned and can’t get over it. Makes me wonder whose homes in RL they think they are entitled to enter.

Because,as it is,people who are banned from a group have no way to defend themselves and can't use evidence in their favor or dispute evidence used against them.   he right to trial by jury

1 hour ago, ellestones said:

i vote for trial by jury

i be happy to be on a jury. Evidence smevidence! pfft!  I will find everyone guilty

:D

 

Me too - except for the "everyone guilty" part. For me, it would all (well maybe most) girls are innocent, and all guys ('cept Qie, of course) are guilty.

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2 hours ago, Gadget Portal said:

The best part about SL is that we're all equals.

Got banned from some sim or group? Make your own that they can't ban you from. Problem solved.

Don't forget to ban them from it and then tell them about it or it's all for nought !

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11 hours ago, Axelfoxthefoxyfluff said:

Because,as it is,people who are banned from a group have no way to defend themselves and can't use evidence in their favor or dispute evidence used against them.

 

  • he right to trial by jury;
  • The right to trial in a timely manner;
  • the right to be informed of the nature and cause of all accusations against you;
  • the right to confront witnesses against you;
  • the right to have legal counsel available to you; and
  • the right to compel witnesses to testify on your behalf

Since none of the actors required to populate your judicial fantasy can (by dint of ToS and RL privacy laws) actually be identified, how can you be sure that I wouldn't be all of them?

And so... I think your idea has merit!

Edited by Madelaine McMasters
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i think its a wonderful idea but surely a court system is over kill.

i suggested in another thread that we have a second life pixel rights comission. that way you don't have to prove you were unfairly banned because of your personal choices, but were in fact the victim of racism/sexism/homophobia/speciesism. 

and of course the person the complaint is filed against will be considered guilty until they prove their innocence

 

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4 hours ago, Phil Deakins said:

Me too - except for the "everyone guilty" part. For me, it would all (well maybe most) girls are innocent, and all guys ('cept Qie, of course) are guilty.

I would be guilty, if only I weren't always the victim. :(

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2 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

I would be guilty, if only I weren't always the victim. :(

Naa. You're the most calm, rational, and sensible poster in the forum, and have been for a great many years. You could never be guilty of anything - except breaking the mainland, of course lol.

Edited by Phil Deakins
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6 hours ago, ellestones said:

i vote for trial by jury

I say we hold a trial by ordeal.

Quote

Trial by ordeal was an ancient judicial practice by which the guilt or innocence of the accused was determined by subjecting them to a painful, or at least an unpleasant, usually dangerous experience. The test was one of life or death, and the proof of innocence was survival.

Either that or turn on rendering cost and see if their draw weight is the same as a duck.

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14 hours ago, Phil Deakins said:

Absolutely not! It would fly in the face of what SL is, in that we wouldn't have control of who can and cannot be in our own groups. It's a ridiculous idea.

Yes it would become just like Real Life.

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9 hours ago, Gadget Portal said:

The best part about SL is that we're all equals.

Got banned from some sim or group? Make your own that they can't ban you from. Problem solved.

When  I find I have a new neighbor that has ban lines, I add him to the ban list on my property.

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Lindal on jury duty: "OFF WITH THEIR HEADS!  OFF WITH THEIR HEADS!"

Lindal as judge:  "Order in the court.  The accused will step forward.  What is your name, sir?"  "Josh Avatar, Your Honor."  BANG!  "Guilty.  Off with his head.  Next case?"

Lindal as defense attorney:  "Pay me now, up front.  My fee is $L10,000."  "But what if we lose the case?"  "Pfft.  That's a given.  That's why you need to pay me now."

Lindal as prosecuting attorney:  "Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, just look at the accused.  The low brow, the glaring eyes.  His very look shows his guilt."  "Objection!  The accused is a gorilla!  That's a normal appearance for gorillas."  "Overruled.  I think he looks guilty myself.  Off with his head!"

Lindal as bailiff:  *CLICK-CHACK!*  /me arms her bazooka, shoulders it and sweeps the courtroom as the audience dives for cover.

(Damn, I wish Trout Recreant were here.  He'd love this thread.)

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On 7/15/2018 at 7:26 AM, Klytyna said:

Jury... A mob of strangers, supposedly chosen at random, with NO regard for their fitness to judge anything, let alone the matter in hand, but in practice often winnowed by Lawyers, ruling various jurors "unacceptable" before the trial begins.

And speaking of the Professional Liars, what makes you think that a) there are any in SL, able to offer competent advice on group bans, or that b) any of the parasites would agree to work for free.

And if your group ban is as unjustified as you'd like the Court to think, and your innocence so easily proven, why would you need to COMPEL the people on "your side"?

...

So, Moron.Asshat (rez 2007) gets banned from a group, outraged at the injustice of this ban, they demand "Trial by Morons", with a covey of paid Professional Liars, to twist and distort the tale, and sp-in the whole sordid dramafest out for days, or weeks or months, at extortionate expense!

A system that would ultimately end up in the same place as most civil libel suits, where the winner is the person who can afford to hire the largest number of the most skilled professional liars, for the longest time.

...

Do I think it's a good idea?

No I think it's an example of the unlicenced possession of illegal quantities of WEAPONS GRADE stupidity, dreamed up by somebody who got kicked from some group and who is too self-entitled and self-righteous to shrug and move on...
 

Could make for good tv though... 

13 hours ago, Lindal Kidd said:

Lindal as judge:  "Order in the court."

Ham and cheese on rye with mustard. 

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I often thought it was a good idea. I used to even run something called "16M court" which, while not backed by any elected government or army, would at least give judicial rulings on land disputes and charges of extortion to force people to "buy the view" as a kind of moral protest, a means of publicity.

The problem is that no one wants to do the work of government, which is why there isn't government. Including the Lindens, first and foremost. They don't like being in the governance business as there is no profit or gain in it, only loss. That's why they tell you in their TOS at least two ways that they do not get involved in resident disputes.

You are outlining the basics of a fair trial under international law and most liberal democracies and even some authoritarian countries. But SL is like Russia.

So you only have blogs for publicizing your case, naming and shaving, or boycott movements or whatever. There is no other recourse.

You would want to think twice about player governance anyway because most of the power groupings in SL would be unjust and serve their own, as we saw many times when groups would start "Better Business Bureaus" or coordinating bannings.

So in SL, there is this: start your own group. It's only $100 and you need one other person or an alt.

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Ok so Ferretpusher63 ban's Singslikeahalfbrick from his group. Because he heard that he called him a Russian sympathizer (just to be topical) They go to court and the judge say he need to take him back.

 

Then what? 

He get's back and he get's banned again next day on some different reason. 

??

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On 7/15/2018 at 4:59 AM, Axelfoxthefoxyfluff said:
  • he right to trial by jury;

         [...]

  • the right to compel witnesses to testify on your behalf

I would like to add:

  • The right to ban because it's Wednesday
  • The right to ban from all estates because of someone's ugly mug
  • The right to act as a total dictator because I'm the one paying for the land and if I want to scare away all my customers and lose income, that's totally my business
Edited by Arduenn Schwartzman
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13 hours ago, Derekmate said:

Ok so Ferretpusher63 ban's Singslikeahalfbrick from his group. Because he heard that he called him a Russian sympathizer (just to be topical) They go to court and the judge say he need to take him back.

Then what? 

He get's back and he get's banned again next day on some different reason. 

Bigly banned a second time, which leads to a second court case where the judge and jury can decide if the incriminating evidence of hookers and showers against Singslikeahalfbrick was real. Important to note that the Judge and Jury for the Russian Sympathiser would need to be European, the Judge herself a German national.

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On 7/14/2018 at 9:59 PM, Axelfoxthefoxyfluff said:

Because,as it is,people who are banned from a group have no way to defend themselves and can't use evidence in their favor or dispute evidence used against them.

 

  • he right to trial by jury;
  • The right to trial in a timely manner;
  • the right to be informed of the nature and cause of all accusations against you;
  • the right to confront witnesses against you;
  • the right to have legal counsel available to you; and
  • the right to compel witnesses to testify on your behalf

naw but they should give us the IP of the person who banned us so we can get revenge and believe me i get revenge

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1 hour ago, Quinn Lysette said:

naw but they should give us the IP of the person who banned us so we can get revenge and believe me i get revenge

Wow that seems ARable. Perhaps LL should just ban you now.

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