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Unfair ban from a region


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7 hours ago, AngelStar42 said:

Please leave your opinions as comments

just adding... seeing your inworld profile, you'r not that new, over  year old, and staff for a serious big store.. and group for nearly 60k users... i can't believe you didn't know spamming is simply bad, forbidden and annoying.

You spammed your bosses group too?

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No.. I may be a year old but I started visiting SL this year onwards.

And no I don't " spam " my bosses or any groups. I did not even spam the rental group in question.

I only picked the partnered people in that sim and asked them if they are interested in the contest.

I don't understand so much hostility and terms like I have committed a crime...

I am not talking about randomly messaging everyone and annoying, according to me there is a difference.

But yes I do agree, people here come from different cultures and their views will be different, and I respect that.

But all I'm saying is, if there was one warning or one message on this shouldn't be done and if I still continued, then the ban would have been justified. 

Well again, that is my view or something what I would have done.

That is why I asked people on here, if you think it is unfair or just me.

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2 minutes ago, AngelStar42 said:

I don't understand so much hostility and terms like I have committed a crime...

Really? You don’t mind getting daily spam on your phone? Or if not, you are unaware that many others do? Because what you did is not unlike that. It is disrespectful of others time, and feels like an attempt to draw others into your role play, like the vampires or baby talkers. If someone wants to be involved in contests, they can take the initiative to find places they are advertised, like the Events forum. 

It’s disingenuous to act like you had no idea that your behavior would annoy people.

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21 minutes ago, AngelStar42 said:

I only picked the partnered people in that sim and asked them if they are interested in the contest.

That's called spam.

21 minutes ago, AngelStar42 said:

But all I'm saying is, if there was one warning or one message on this shouldn't be done

I think you'll find that in the SL ToS that you agreed to when you signed up.

Imo, the money you paid for the rental weeks that weren't provided was stolen from you. It's not only unfair, it's a crime. But I can't support your spamming. It doesn't matter if you only IMed targeted people (couples), it's still spam. Banning you from a sim (the rental sim) is fair. Keeping the money you paid for the weeks that weren't provided is theft.

Edited by Phil Deakins
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11 minutes ago, AngelStar42 said:

I am not talking about randomly messaging everyone and annoying,

No, you are talking about randomly messaging SELECTED strangers, like those telemarketing spam campaigns targeted at specific people because they fall into some specified social category.

12 minutes ago, AngelStar42 said:

according to me there is a difference.

Most guilty people plead innocent in court, go figure...

14 minutes ago, AngelStar42 said:

so much hostility and terms like I have committed a crime...

Spamming "partnered" people with malice aforethought... Guilty as charged...

And if you want to see hostility, claim you were doing it as research for a university paper, and watch the sparks fly!

15 minutes ago, AngelStar42 said:

I asked people on here, if you think it is unfair or just me

Just you...
 

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An aside, but related:

Some years ago, I had a lengthy argument with someone in a forum. I was arguing that unsolicited mail/email/contact is not spam in and of itself. The scenario I used was a manufacturer of pens. A new pen range is manufactured and, imo, it is not spam (in the negative sense) to inform the retailers who sell pens, regardless of whether or not the retailers have been customers or expressed an interest to hear from the manufacturer - sending a brochure through the post for instance. So I contend that not all unsolicted contact is spam. Thank you very much :)

In this case, just because a pair of accounts are partnered doesn't mean that they are into 'couples' events and couples things. The retailers of pens are into buying pens. They depend on them for their livelihood. But a similar conclusion cannot be drawn about SL partners. What the OP did was spam.

Edited by Phil Deakins
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13 minutes ago, AngelStar42 said:

I only picked the partnered people in that sim and asked them if they are interested in the contest.

If "in that sim" means you were present in the same sim as the people you were messaging at the time, that might make it a little better. It's still unsolicited messaging, but at least it's not completely out of the blue. (Although I'd still probably respond "NEW PHONE WHO DIS" as I muted you.)

I'm still curious, though: how did it occur to you that this was a thing to do? Did somebody suggest it? If so, maybe they're the one who owes you that rent.

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@Qie Niangao

9 hours ago, AngelStar42 said:

I work as a manager in the power couple contest and as a way to get more people and spread the word, I am promoting this contest. Many of you might have got a message from me about it. I am fairly new to SL so I don't have much friends or contacts...
Similarly inworld , I look for groups that have their member list and have not mentioned I can't message them and send then ONE SINGLE message - a brief about the contest and if they are interested. 
Nothing after that if they don't reply. No follow up, no asking , no nagging. 
Like many of you must have seen. 


It sounds like the OP was spamming far and wide, Qie - using groups for names to spam.

But it reminded me of a contest that I was persuaded into years ago. I was told that it was to be displays of furniture and, at that time, I was one of the biggest suppliers. I wasn't told that it was a contest, or that people had to pay to vote. I'd been 'used', and it annoyed the hell out of me. It was a money-making scheme, like those beauty contest. But that's irrelevant. The point is, I did not consider the initial contact to be spam, because furniture was my business and the event was only about furniture. It wouldn't have been spam if I'd been contacted out of the blue, and invited to display in an SL Birthday event. Not all unsolicited contact is spam. The OP's was though :)

Edited by Phil Deakins
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I notice the story started with finding groups with member lists to only spamming partnered people on the sim.

 

Side note=  I can't seem to do that multiple quote thing in my posts unless they suddenly appear when I submit reply, in which case this post is going to look a mess

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9 hours ago, AngelStar42 said:

I look for groups that have their member list and have not mentioned I can't message them and send then ONE SINGLE message - a brief about the contest and if they are interested. 

 

59 minutes ago, AngelStar42 said:

And no I don't " spam " my bosses or any groups

 

59 minutes ago, AngelStar42 said:

That is why I asked people on here, if you think it is unfair or just me.

There appears to be a disconnect between what you call spam and what everyone else calls spam.

Think of it as cold calling as a telemarketer.   One spam call and that number is blocked.  The general public is not interested in your projects.  It does not matter if you called the land lords group or random people on the map.  You called them the landlord reacted in a way that would prevent further solicitations on his land.  No one likes getting calls like that in SL, RL, email, phone, sms text, discord ... it's all the same.

I will say the landlord acted harshly.  Was it fair? ... was it fair to him to annoy his customers with your pitch?
He has to protect his real cold hard cash investment and keep the customers happy.  Having a known spammer on site is not good business.  So yeah, it was fair.

Edited by Rhonda Huntress
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From the TOS, what you may not do:

“6.2 

(ii) Post or transmit unsolicited or unauthorized advertising, or promotional materials, that are in the nature of "junk mail," "spam," "chain letters," "pyramid schemes," or any other form of solicitation that Linden Lab considers to be of such nature;”

Keyword bolded. Don’t send anything to anyone without their consent. 

 

 

 

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When advertising for a club event,you want to keep it in the clubs group.. Going outside and doing a conference or hitting up people not in the group..You are bound to rub someone the wrong way..

When I used to work at GOL,which at the time was one of the bigger clubs.. Nobody from the club spammed anyone else..

The last thing we wanted when we were away from there ,was to be hit up by our own club outside the group or by someone else from another club hitting us up by our friends list..

If you go outside the group it's intended for..You're rolling the dice..

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I will send out notecards to the people on my friends list when I have an art show someplace, even amoung my friends, I piss people off so I am sure sending stuff out to people randomly would create problems. 

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40 minutes ago, Pamela Galli said:

From the TOS, what you may not do:

“6.2 

(ii) Post or transmit unsolicited or unauthorized advertising, or promotional materials, that are in the nature of "junk mail," "spam," "chain letters," "pyramid schemes," or any other form of solicitation that Linden Lab considers to be of such nature;”

Keyword bolded. Don’t send anything to anyone without their consent. 

 

 

 

Reading that, it seems that before I can im you, I need to get your permission to im you, but, I'd have to im you in the first place to get permission.

So instead of just iming you and saying "hey come check out this great new offer", I'd have to im you and say, "hey is it ok if I im you about coming to come check out a great new offer?".

Either way they are getting an unsolicited im, and either way, the result is the same.

I believe there is an option in preferences.... only accept ims from friends.

All the people that totally break down over an unsolicited im should perhaps consider checking that box.

 

 

Edited by Phorumities
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19 minutes ago, Talligurl said:

I will send out notecards to the people on my friends list when I have an art show someplace, even amoung my friends, I piss people off so I am sure sending stuff out to people randomly would create problems. 

I never get pissed off when u send me one. 

*smiles*

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3 minutes ago, Phorumities said:

Reading that, it seems that before I can im you, I need to get your permission to im you

if you want to advertise/spam yes you need permission, what you will get if you invite me to a group for your activities. (or not get of course)

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Just now, Alwin Alcott said:

if you want to advertise/spam yes you need permission, what you will get if you invite me to a group for your activities. (or not get of course)

as  I said, either way, you are getting an im from a total stranger with a spam offer tailored just for you.

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Just now, Phorumities said:

as  I said, either way, you are getting an im from a total stranger with a spam offer tailored just for you.

no, because the ones that play it nice will only invite to groups when you are  at their venue/store, and can subcribe. NOT by sending spam as start.

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10 minutes ago, Phorumities said:

Reading that, it seems that before I can im you, I need to get your permission to im you, but, I'd have to im you in the first place to get permission.

So instead of just iming you and saying "hey come check out this great new offer", I'd have to im you and say, "hey is it ok if I im you about coming to come check out a great new offer?".

Either way they are getting an unsolicited im, and either way, the result is the same.

I believe there is an option in preferences.... only accept ims from friends.

All the people that totally break down over an unsolicited im should perhaps consider checking that box.

Yeah of course - because merchants and everyone who needs to accept IMs from strangers have no rights to be protected from SPAM or stalking - just don't IM folks about your busines, simple rule to follow - simple rule to persecute.

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12 minutes ago, Phorumities said:
51 minutes ago, Pamela Galli said:

From the TOS, what you may not do:

“6.2 

(ii) Post or transmit unsolicited or unauthorized advertising, or promotional materials, that are in the nature of "junk mail," "spam," "chain letters," "pyramid schemes," or any other form of solicitation that Linden Lab considers to be of such nature;”

Reading that, it seems that before I can im you, I need to get your permission to im you, but, I'd have to im you in the first place to get permission.

The first IM would not be advertising, and would not contain promotional materials. It would simply be a request for permission. While I don't see that as a violation of the ToS, I do think a significant number of recipients (including me) would still block/mute.

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2 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

no, because the ones that play it nice will only invite to groups when you are  at their venue/store, and can subcribe. NOT by sending spam as start.

you miss the point. From reading the post from the TOS, its clearly against the rules to send unsolicited spam etc, but it seems not to be against the TOS to ask permission to send spam.

They could just add in one more line, (gawd knows the TOS is already long enough)

"iming someone with the intention to ask permission to send spam".

There problem solved.

*note to self, don't im Alwin to invite him to join us at one of our pool parties, couples welcome of course*

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1 minute ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

The first IM would not be advertising, and would not contain promotional materials. It would simply be a request for permission. While I don't see that as a violation of the ToS, I do think a significant number of recipients (including me) would still block/mute.

Oh I probably would too. I was simply trying to clarify the TOS.

I prefer a TOS that uses a scalpel rather than a shotgun.

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SPAM is business - find a nifty lawyer and let them weasel it out - I bet they find a way to twist it into "offering an offer is already an offer"

 

... Oh wait no nifty lawyer needed - It already is an offer and SPAM on top and hence under the regulation.

Edited by Fionalein
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I pay to advertise in legitimate places.  I spend hours sending notices in legitimate advertising groups.  Hell I even get twitchy if I have to send out more than 1 notice a week to my own store group in case my customers, that choose to be in the group, get peed off with it.  I certainly would not want to be at my home with my partner obviously spending time together and have someone IM me trying to advertise.  

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52 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

The first IM would not be advertising, and would not contain promotional materials. It would simply be a request for permission. While I don't see that as a violation of the ToS, I do think a significant number of recipients (including me) would still block/mute.

I have a subscriber kiosk at my store landing point. If anyone wants my notices, they can add themselves. 

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